[Mr. Goodglock]

Hi,

I am a gun owner in Thailand. We are one of very few Asian country that people can own gun and may be the socond rank in gun right after the Phillipines. Of 63 millions people we have around 3 millian "legal" guns in honest citizen hands. To buy a new gun we have to go through very difficult process of finger print, recommendation letter, licensing and even asset declaration. Naturally, gun parts and accessories are also very difficult to obtain.

By the way, my friend will go to Greece with the news agency for the Olympic event. I will be very grateful if any one can provide information about the Greek gunshop and what tourist can buy.

Best regard and thank you very much in advance.

A free Thai :p

[whitebear]

Mr. Goodglock -

From my limited understanding (reading and some correspondence with a couple of Greek shooting enthusiasts), I doubt your friend would be able to purchase a gun while in Greece.

Greece's laws concerning gun ownership seem to be quite strict (http://www.m1911.org/gun_laws.htm), and apparently the Greek constitution bans the carry of guns by foreigners (http://valley-nra.freeservers.com/blog/archive/2004_05_30_index.html), although the government seems to be looking the other way to some extent during the Olympics.

Sorry I can't provide more information. I hope your friend has a good trip!

[Can'thavenuthingood]

What is meant by "asset declaration" in order to get a gun? Do you have to list all your assets as in a will?
House, car, fishing poles, tools and computer?

What is the reasoning for this law?
Is it so in case you violate a gun law, or any law the government can come and take your stuff?

Are gun parts government controlled items also?

Is this the same for black powder guns?

Are there limitations as to what type or how many guns one is allowed to own?

Are you allowed machete's and knives?

Is the general population okay with this or are there many unable to get a gun?

Many questions.

Thanks
Vick

[Mr. Goodglock]

Thank you very much for your kind answer. We don’t hope to buy the whole gun back to Thailand as import license has to be obtained in advance. However, he may find some part such as cock or safety piece of 1911 etc.

Thank you very much for your concern. Something I can think of now are:

1. Too many people are sheeples and think that gun owner is seeking violence solution. I personally thin that there must be some influence from some part of Buddhism teaching that “one get what one did”, so they unconsciously think that they shall not be victimized as they are good people who never harm the other, one classic sheeple mentality, isn’t it?

2. We don’t have to declare all asset, just something to shoe that we are very well established and “rich”. Don’t feel worse, some fools here just don’t see that poor people also honest and value their live. In fact it is not too much, around 2,500 USD in Bang account will do. The crooks don’t have to deposit this amount and can get unregistered gun at 10-15% of the legal price.

3. Black powder, air gun No. 1 and 2 and gun parts are all under controlled. An empty brass can put you in jail if you don’t own gun of that caliber. Of all firearms we can not own the caliber bigger than .45, semi-auto rifle except .22. Now permit for the center-fire of any action that barrel is longer than 7 inches (limit of handgun here) is to be approved “personally” by the Minister of interior himself only, practically for people without strong political connection. Concealed carry permit is also under this one-man signature rule.

4. There is no limit but you can see that we have to go through “all” process every time to buy a new piece. I got 6 so far… (S&W 19, Glock 19, Taurus 85S, Ithaca 37, Benelli M4 and Ruger 10/22). More than 10 is considered very plenty here, more than 30 is really rare but few folk get more than 100. I think less than 20 individuals in the country of 63 millions get more than 100. The price is also one obstacle. Tax and import quota make Glock 9 MM 1000 USD. Colt Gold Cup is at almost 2000 USD, S&W60 (Yes, the simple Chief) at 1000 USD as well, Ruger 10/22 is at 450 USD etc., please also consider our income. There is still a creepy law allowing the dear government to confiscate our gun for national security in emergency situation even if we did nothing anyway. It never happened but other serious criminal can also led to confiscation.

5. Knife shorter than 4 inches can be carried but not in sensitive places and if it is used as weapon any length will bring serious criminal offence.

6. With all my respect to the people’s ignorance and corruptible culture. I can say that self defense by weapon is declining as basic right especially in urban society. In short, modernized fools love to advocate that they solve solution by wisdom more than force, unfortunately the murdered can not argue. Horrible rime scene is the favorite on the front page but somehow too many sheep believe that they will never be the next.

7. People who know the truth just satisfied with they way they get what they want and don’t want to shoe off for public interest. Last year I and 6 other tried to establish the first RKBA association. We had submit all family history for scrutinized for the registration but decided to withdraw the application as too few member would give the opportunity for the present anti gun government to use it as tool to advocate that very small number of people value RKBA.

Hope to discuss more.

Best regard

[Stand_Watie]

Welcome to the board Mr. Goodglock. I don't know anything about the gun situation in Greece, but am always interested to hear about the firearm and self defense rights in other nations. We have at least one person in Taiwan and another in the Phillipines on the board as well.

[NMshooter]

Don't know about the rest of Greece, but the island of Crete has around 90% ownership, much of it illegal. Trying to ban guns in Greece would be like trying to ban water.

[Sam Adams]

Mr. Goodglock - thanks for letting all of us know about Thailand's gun laws. I'm sure that Thailand has lots of good things about it, and it seems better than most Asian countries regarding gun rights, but I think that most people on THR would be in jail right now if Thailand's gun laws were adopted here. I know that I would be. Of course, if I still lived in New Jersey I would be at risk of a few centuries of jail time, so don't feel too bad.

An empty brass can put you in jail if you don’t own gun of that caliber.

That is rather strange - it is just a piece of brass; what can you do, throw it at someone? Based on this law, I guess that owning live .50 caliber armor-piercing BMG cartridges would be frowned upon in Thailand? :what:

[cordex]

You might want to email John Caradimas of M1911.org

[Mr. Goodglock]

Hi every body,

Thank for your information Cordex.

I think the most jumpy point for the anti gun control culture is gun and ammo production so they are afraid of brass. Ammo. loading is strictly prohibited.

We are still lucky Asians. Taiwanese, HK and Singaporean can’t have gun at all, the Japanese will have real hard time getting a gun. The Japanese can have only single or double barrel shotgun, no rifle, no pistol, most or all of their sport shooter is from police force or military.

So there is shooting business in Thailand for Japanese and other East Asian tourists. Can you imagine shooting .38 wad cutter from rusty revolver at more than 2 USD per Bang? Good for somebody economy here Hee hee. (not me)

Best regard,

The photo is from our gathering here few months ago.

[Mr. Goodglock]

Different time same place

[Mr. Goodglock]

This is a home made percusion, no-standard-gauge shotgun that was registered during the last "pardon" in 1975. My friend got it many years ago at 10 USD.

[UnknownSailor]

Guam does good business letting Japanese experience shooting a firearm. I remember seeing all the gun clubs when I was there.

[Stand_Watie]

I wonder if Hawaii does a trade in firearm touristry? I seem to recall they have a lot of visitors from Japan. I think we had this discussion visa vi the Phillippines with Horge as well.

[Cosmoline]

What's the supply of old Siamese Mausers look like over there? It's drying up stateside.

[Mr. Goodglock]

I only saw the Simese Mausers in some small military museums. Some military establishment set up their our showroom and they are worth a visit. Around 1970 they sold the rifle to public with the original Simese barrel but they are out from they market so many years ago. My father saw the advertising back then I myself never. Currently there are advertising to sell 7.63 Mauser or Luger but no more Mauser rifle. Recently my friend got the German Luger produced in 1927 for 750 USD. Every part is original include the grip. Some is very keen on hunting old guns from people who inherit them but don't want to keep them. Ah, inherit or buying from individual have to go through the same process as well.

In the '30 We did make our own 1911 without safety on the back of the grip (?) They were issued and it happened that they were given or sold to be privately registered by the service personals but can be inherited in their family only. My friend got one from his grand father and before he bought Beretta 92 FS compact from me 2-3 years ago he really carry it on duty as tax enforcement officer. (sort of US Treasury Secret Service)

Some Japaneses told me that shooting in Hawaii is well known in Japan. In Thailand we can't have bullet proof vest but in Japan they can, may be they really accept that the Yaguza Japanese Mafia always have many kind of long guns and hand guns anyhow. ;)

Best regard.

[Benton]

I was in Hawaii a couple of weeks ago and saw the Honolulu Gun Club handing out color leaflets on the sidewalks of Waikiki. They were in English and Japanese, advertising the opportunity to fire "Real Guns/Factory Ammo". The packages available ranged from $9 for 24 shots of .22LR to $95 for 75 shots through various centerfire arms. It seems expensive, but I suppose it is the only opportunity many foreign visitors will ever have to fire a gun.

[Stand_Watie]

I was in Hawaii a couple of weeks ago and saw the Honolulu Gun Club handing out color leaflets on the sidewalks of Waikiki. They were in English and Japanese, advertising the opportunity to fire "Real Guns/Factory Ammo".

English and Japanese. That says a lot. Looks like they know which side their bread is buttered on. I wish we had more Japanese tourists in Texas, because I really dig introducing folks who haven't had the opportunity to shoot to the fun.

[Mr. Goodglock]

Well well, my apology Cosmoline, it was wrong information,

The Simese Mauser has never been sold IN THAILAND as it is listed in the military service (another interesting point here). The ad. my dad saw is the US ad, it was 29 USD back in 1973. May be they got them from here at 10 USD. There is no ammo supply anyway.

The two pieces on the left are mine.:p

[jeff-10]

I vacationed in Greece around 5 months ago and naturally I would bring up firearm ownership to the Greeks we made conversation with. I do that in every country I visit just to get a feel of how people feel about firearms in other countries. I seemed to get the impression from them that firearm ownership by the general populace is virtually unheard of. It is a very urban country with nearly a 1/3 of its inhabitants living in the Athens area. Wildlife is almost non existent (by our standards) from what I understand so hunting isn't something many Greeks partake in. Even the police there didn't seem particulary well armed. The ones who had sidearms were all armed with some kind of old revolver that looked liked it never left the holster. The ones on the islands weren't even armed at all if I remember correctly. I did see one paramilitary looking guy with a Glock.

[Mr. Goodglock]

Seem like manys folk here.

Most urbanites know that Thai can have firearms but they don't realize of the process involve, they just think that anybody can buy it and have it registered like a car then can carry it around. So, firearm right does not sound good for those who don't see its utility at first place. However, few don't know that the Thai can own firearm at all.

Poor informed people and ignorance of the need for self defence for they have lived so far without the need of it

[Daedalus]

I always find these stories of gun owners from other countries interesting and pictures are even better!

Thanks Mr. Goodglock!

[MeekandMild]

Mr. Goodglock, welcome to THR.

If you would, please, tell us what are the stories from your country about criminals who make their own guns? I have a friend from the Phillipines who tells me that there is a thriving black-market trade there in home made weapons, especially pistols. I wonder if such is the case in Thailand or in other eastern countries?

[Stand_Watie]

If you would, please, tell us what are the stories from your country about criminals who make their own guns? I have a friend from the Phillipines who tells me that there is a thriving black-market trade there in home made weapons, especially pistols. I wonder if such is the case in Thailand or in other eastern countries?

Meekandmild, I think twoblink, from Taiwan has commented on there being some of that there as well, if you're researching it hopefully that gives you a starting point. Horge is our guy here from the Phillipines, and he seems to be the resident expert on Bersa pistols. He's given me some good advice.

[Tom Bri]

Interesting thread. Mr. GoodGlock, I have visited Thailand several times and have fine memories of the place, including reading articles in the local newspaper about firearms rights. I was surprised to learn that Thais had such liberal gun laws.

Met my wife in Bancok, by the way. She isn't Thai, we were both on vacation there.

[hvengel]

The Phillipines has a long history of "home made" guns that goes back to the 19th century that has continued through to the present. This may be signficantly different from other Asian countries as the Phillipines was US territory for most fo the first half of the 20th century. Also Philipinios as a culture really like guns maybe even more than Americans in general do. Many Philipinios from big cities will initialy express views that are not pro-gun but if you get them to a gun range as soon as they pull the trigger for the first time they turn into total gun nuts. I have personally had a hand in this transformation several times.

[pbhome71]

If you would, please, tell us what are the stories from your country about criminals who make their own guns? I have a friend from the Phillipines who tells me that there is a thriving black-market trade there in home made weapons, especially pistols. I wonder if such is the case in Thailand or in other eastern countries?

I know a little bit about this, since I spent almost 10 years in Thailand. When I was there, there are 2 type of favorite pistols:
- a pen gun which shoots .22 shorts. This is very popular with "technical" school students. This looks like a pen-gun here and are easily made by turning steel/brass tube.

- a single-shot pistol shooting a 12ga shotgun. I don't remember what it was called, but it was very popular. The barrel was made from the steering-wheel column. It is a break-open action, with external hammer. It looks sort of like a cross between a 1911 and a flare gun.

Eventhough, CCW is not legal - I think, many of my friends packed in their cars. I think there is a loop-hole that if you have to carry a lot of cash, you can pack for your protection. I'm not sure if this is still true.

If you know people, illegal gun was not hard to come by. Back at the end of the Vietnam war (1975-1980s), it was easy to get M16s, and AK. They costed around 2000-3000 Baht ($80-$120)

I am sure they are more expensive now a day... :) I also want to find out how things are these day.

Thanks for sharing the story...

-Pat

[Mr. Goodglock]

Oh yes, the .22 pen pistols are still around. They are spreaded among the "Technical Students"

The shotgun pistol are still around. I don't think they made so many new one as the real illegal pistol is easier to obtained. It is call "Look-song sun" or "E Bor". Most is in gauge 12 but some are in gauge 20. They have 1911 look just for fashion, no 1911 mechanic at all. Some are registered in 1975 and became legal. They are plenty up cpuntry. I saw some fire it but dare not to try- Ka-booms phobia I am.

We have nation wide CCW permit called "Por 12". It had been very difficult to obtained and have to be renew every year. The renewing process also take 2-3 months already. With Por 12 we can not carry in entertainment places so it is more like CCW for high way and jungle. Now the Por 12 can be signed by only one person, the Minister of Interior himself, so it is practically impossible for honest citizen. There is still no official change in the guideline for police to consider carry without Por 12 is acceptable, based on the circumstance. In short based on connection and balance of power between the carrier and the police who find it.

The illegal M16 and AK47 are around 3000-4000 Baht at the right (actually wrong) place.

Best regard,