Sniper rifles, assault rifles, etc (rant!)


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mhdishere
August 19, 2004, 12:16 PM
This came to mind while I was reading the post about surplus police weapons being sold, particularly the part about bolt-action sniper rifles.

It seems that people are confusing the use to which a particular weapon is put in a particular instance with its category. If someone gets on top of a building and shoots someone 200 yards away with a 30-30 lever action rifle with iron sights, that rifle is a sniper's (note the possessive!) rifle, it's a rifle being used BY a sniper. The week before it may have been a deer-hunter's rifle. If it's used by a home-owner to repell home invaders it's a home-defender's rifle.

I've known people who could reliably hit a 6 inch gong, off hand, and 200 yards with a .22. I wouldn't want them shooting at me with a 22 because I'd end up dead. On the other hand (where I have five fingers) I've known people who (to clean up my father's phrase) couldn't hit a bull in the posterior with a load of buckshot if he was tied to the stall. As we've said before, it's the person doing the shooting, not the weapon, that makes it dangerous.

I also think we're in-part to blame. All this "tactical" stuff in the ads, the "sniper rifles", the "assault rifles". Call it what it is, it's a bolt-action .308 rifle with a 10x scope, black synthetic stock, bull barrel, and integral bipod. You can use it to punch holes in paper, to get your deer, to justifiably shoot someone, or to commit murder. And if you use it for the last purpose we're gonna be all over you like white on rice.

OK, rant over.

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R.H. Lee
August 19, 2004, 12:21 PM
Exactly. I could use my automobile as a "weapon of mass destruction", or I could use it to drive to the grocery store for milk and cookies.

Justin
August 19, 2004, 12:27 PM
I also think we're in-part to blame. All this "tactical" stuff in the ads, the "sniper rifles", the "assault rifles". They could paint an AR15 pink and call it the Fluffy Bunny Special and the anti's would still accuse us of being a bunch of homicidal, knuckle-dragging psychopaths. The anti's will call us whatever names they see fit.

GEM
August 19, 2004, 12:40 PM
Jan Libourel, the gun rag editor, told me once that he would like to describe guns like that. However, the consumer base loves the tactical, killer, ultimate stopping, ballistic, assault, sniper, etc. rhetoric.

It is the implication of tough guy and violence that is attractive to so many folks.

Damon
August 19, 2004, 12:44 PM
It doesn't matter what you name them, the media will still mess it up.

nico
August 19, 2004, 12:53 PM
GEM has a good point. And the worst part is a lot of those people are voting for kerry. ie: the 21 year old who buys a USP or a desert eagle (which is an awesome, unbelievably reliable gun) because he played counterstrike.

mhdishere
August 19, 2004, 01:56 PM
You make good points about the media painting our guns in a poor light, but do we really have to go along with them? When we talk about buying a sniper rifle, or an assault rifle, we're buying into the terms the anti's have coined, not us.

We're giving the rifle qualities it doesn't possess on its own. When people say a "rifle is accurate out to 500 yards", well that depends entirely on the ability of the shooter doesn't it? If you don't actually function as a sniper you don't have a sniper's rifle, and if you do what ever rifle you happen to be using is a sniper's rifle. Just because a rifle is accurate at long range, fires a powerful cartridge, has a scope and other features that make it easier to shoot at long range doesn't make it a sniper's rifle because the person using it isn't a sniper. I might buy one and for me it would be a "high-powered target rifle", another person might buy one and it would be a "deer hunter's rifle".

This (believe it or not) isn't political correctness. It's a matter of accuracy in the terms we use. Granted, a deer rifle could be my grandfather's "thutty thutty", or it could be a Steyr Scout with all the goodies. If you say "Scout rifle" most shooters have an idea what you mean, mostly from the forward-mounted scope. People who've read up on it know quite well what it means in terms of action, cartridge, weight, length, etc. I've heard of "sniper rifles" in everything from .22 LR to .50 BMG, single-shot, bolt or semi, about the only thing they have in common is a scope.

5knives
August 20, 2004, 09:23 PM
As someone says on another forum:

"The firearm is just a tool, I'M the weapon!

He makes a good point, I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who can be very homicidal with a Bic pen.

Never hear about that in the media, just the guns and of course thr "terrorist box cutters.

I've been listening to the hype, the BS, and the PC twaddle for nearly 70 years now. I'm really sick of it!:cuss:

Standing Wolf
August 20, 2004, 09:28 PM
...it's the person doing the shooting, not the weapon, that makes it dangerous.

Oh, fine! You sound like the kind of person who thinks criminals cause crime. How very unmodern!

Onmilo
August 20, 2004, 09:39 PM
Apparently when the shooting is eyeball to eyeball the bangstick is a "close quarter battle rifle.:"
When fired at long range targets of opportunity the bangstick is an "interdiction rifle."
If a telescope of any sort is installed on the bangstick it is a "sniper rifle" unless the bangstick is a handgun which then becomes a "choice of professional assassins."
The AK47/AKM individual combat weapon is "the commies and terrorist choice."
And the M16A-whatever is a "POS"
As for me I have always had a soft spot for the short barrelled shotgun also known as a "whippit gun."
Oh incidently the 'bangstick" is another name for the "weapon, individual, single shot, 12 guage, protective/hunting, underwater."

reagansquad
August 21, 2004, 12:27 AM
Here's my theory;

Criminals are the cause of crime, but poverty, lack of education and opportunity are the cause of criminals. Where do guns fit into that equation? They DON'T!!! SO LEAVE THEM ALONE!

mustanger98
August 21, 2004, 12:44 AM
Let's see here...

"Guns don't kill; people kill."

"Guns cause crime like flies cause garbage."

"If guns cause crime, all mine are defective."

"Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun."

Zundfolge
August 21, 2004, 01:41 AM
They could paint an AR15 pink and call it the Fluffy Bunny Special and the anti's would still accuse us of being a bunch of homicidal, knuckle-dragging psychopaths.

Then they would accuse gun manufacturers of "targeting children" with their marketing. :rolleyes:

chetth
August 21, 2004, 02:07 AM
They could paint an AR15 pink and call it the Fluffy Bunny Special and the anti's would still accuse us of being a bunch of homicidal, knuckle-dragging psychopaths.


Hey I plan to buy an AR15 pattern gun in September and put pink furnature on it because my daughter wants a pink gun. :D

Someone on another forum suggested that all firearms be required to be hot pink (or lime green / blaze orange) to eliminate the evil from EBRs and other guns. What serious bad ass would carry a 'Hello kitty' gun?

of course, bullets still come out the dangerous end...

Justin
August 21, 2004, 03:02 AM
Last year, when I had time to shoot the occasional high power match, one of the women who participated had a pink AR.

Someone on another forum suggested that all firearms be required to be hot pink (or lime green / blaze orange) to eliminate the evil from EBRs and other guns. Oleg has something along those lines on his website:
The Aesthetics of the Gun Debate (http://www.a-human-right.com/RKBA/looks.html)

10 Ring Tao
August 21, 2004, 03:20 PM
Exactly. I could use my automobile as a "weapon of mass destruction", or I could use it to drive to the grocery store for milk and cookies.

But cars have other uses than killing!!! Guns are only meant to kill!!!

chetth
August 21, 2004, 03:37 PM
I could use my automobile as a "weapon of mass destruction", or I could use it to drive to the grocery store for milk and cookies.


But cars have other uses than killing!!! Guns are only meant to kill!!!

This is EXACTLY the argument that I have repeatedly tried to counter. Because it shows an knee-jerk emotional response. Good counter-strategies welcomed.

Edmond
August 21, 2004, 05:04 PM
You can't forget that Hollywood also feeds false information into the minds of people.:rolleyes:

Tharg
August 21, 2004, 05:22 PM
heheh... i was the one unsure of the definition of a "sniper rifle" in that said thread....

however,,, as i recall i STILL pointed out that it would take a human component to make a capable gun... well... capable.

btw... the hello kitty AR15 made me giggle my ass off.... and now i want one.... just for shock effect. (cause ya know - the business end STILL ain't smilin) I wonder how many criminals when faced w/ such a gun - would stutter step ... wondering *** is that? rofl oops too late... bang bang bad rat person... <snicker>

hehe

J/Tharg!

mustanger98
August 21, 2004, 06:07 PM
But cars have other uses than killing!!! Guns are only meant to kill!!!

I recall reading on one of these message boards- here, BR.com, M14FiringLine, I disremember which- where somebody opined that guns weren't designed to kill. Guns were only designed to fire a bullet. What uses to put a gun to are up to the owner/operator.

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