Old man Ruger question


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twoblink
February 19, 2003, 02:15 AM
Now that old man Ruger is no longer around; are we gonna see hi-cap magazines for the Ruger's??

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Jeff OTMG
February 19, 2003, 02:28 AM
I asked the same question of Ruger while at the SHOT Show. Read the Ruger paragraph here:
http://www.shotshowreports.com/2003pg1.html

jsalcedo
February 19, 2003, 02:33 AM
Shot show reports.com

Although Ruger currently produces a 20 round Mini-14 magazine for law enforcement, even if it was no longer restricted, Ruger would not allow anything beyond the current 5 round magazine for us mere civilians. With concealed carry legislation sweeping the country and small autos from nearly every manufacture popping up to fill that need, Ruger is not interested tapping a market geared toward concealed carry self-defense. When it comes to self-defense, Ruger is only interested in the law enforcement community, and when it comes to our rights, they are carrying on the tradition of Bill Ruger in his letter to a Congress in March 1989 urging them to pass restrictive 15 round limits to handgun magazines. For the rest of us Ruger would have us call 911. I was hoping that the politics would die with the man, no such luck, he has left his company as his legacy and we all suffer as a result.
:cuss: :cuss: :fire: :fire: :barf:

twoblink
February 19, 2003, 03:04 AM
No, but with Ruger out of the picture, it's time for new administrative changes...

Kahr carrier
February 19, 2003, 07:50 AM
Never say never ,If the ban goe Bye -Bye ,Ruger might end up selling high-caps MONEY talks their a business .:D

seeker_two
February 19, 2003, 11:15 AM
Food for thought...

Could this response by Ruger be a "red herring" so that, when the AWB reaches sunset, the antis can't come out saying "If we don't pass another mag restriction law, companies like Ruger are ready to flood the streets w/ super-hi-cap magazines filled w/ cop-killer bullets for the machine guns they sell to the public." (I know, but did you expect logic from the antis? :scrutiny: )

As for the "No honest man needs a gun smaller than a canned ham" remark, I think Ol' Bill knew the sizes of some canned hams...:cool:

Bill Ruger's canned ham (http://www.moms-dads.com/classes/baskcan.jpg)

Scale pic (http://www.moms-dads.com/classes/bask1.jpg)

Bottom Gun
February 19, 2003, 11:15 AM
I know there are some who are tired of hearing this, but here it is again:

So far as I'm concerned, there's not much difference between Ruger and S&W politics. Therefore I will not buy new guns from either one. If I see something I need, I'll wait until I can find a good used one. Neither company will see a dime from me until they change their way of thinking.

Tamara
February 19, 2003, 12:35 PM
In all fairness, how many CCW handguns or large-capacity rifle mags do Winchester and Remington make?

Joe Demko
February 19, 2003, 01:34 PM
In all fairness, how many CCW handguns or large-capacity rifle mags do Winchester and Remington make?

None, obviously, but they aren't players in the handgun/evilblackrifle game at all. They closest they come is in some variants of their shotguns. Ruger is in the handgun business and does make sort-of-evilblackrifles. They even tried getting into the submachinegun business once. So, the key here is that Ruger does make large-capacity magazines but wouldn't distribute them (willingly) to "civilians" even before the ban for the Mini-14. As for Ruger's generally large handguns, see my sig line.

USGuns
February 19, 2003, 03:03 PM
Kahr Carrier nailed it. If the ban goes bye-bye then Ruger will start selling higher-capacity magazines. They will have to to compete and make money. It's that simple.

Soap
February 19, 2003, 03:27 PM
Tamara- I was thinking the same thing. But the difference with Ruger is that in the past, Ruger took a decidedly anti-gun stance. Now it is up to them to disprove this stance with some measure of good faith. The release of 10 round mags for the Mini and a pistol that is marketed for concealed carry are clear measures of good faith that they so desperately need to provide to pro-gun consumers.

twoblink
February 19, 2003, 10:15 PM
Here's the thing..

Ruger = a corporation
corporation's #1 job = increase equity and shareholder's wealth
selling hi-cap magazines after sunset = increasing equity and shareholder's wealth

I think if you see the reins fall on the assault rifle laws, you will see then having a 30 round magazine half off sale on Ruger's grave...

Tamara
February 19, 2003, 11:26 PM
[Devil's advocate]

None, obviously, but they aren't players in the handgun/evilblackrifle game at all. They closest they come is in some variants of their shotguns.

Well, what's wrong with them? Don't they believe in the 2nd Amendment?

Ruger is in the handgun business and does make sort-of-evilblackrifles. They even tried getting into the submachinegun business once. So, the key here is that Ruger does make large-capacity magazines but wouldn't distribute them (willingly) to "civilians" even before the ban for the Mini-14. As for Ruger's generally large handguns, see my sig line.

Did you know that Perazzi and Krieghoff don't even make handguns? ;)

[/Devil's advocate]

Joe Demko
February 20, 2003, 10:00 AM
Tamara,
The important difference, as I see it, is that Winchester, Remington, Perazzi, et. al. have more-or-less renounced participation in the "anti-personnel device" market. With few exceptions, they market dedicated "sporting arms." Yes, I know a Perazzi will kill you just as dead as an FAL, but I believe you understand my point.
Ruger wants to play in the "anti-personnel" game, but only half-heartedly. They have no qualms about manufacturing the toys or marketing the toys to LE or foreign military, but aren't any too keen about letting you or me buy them.
Now, it isn't Ruger's (or any corporation's) responsibility to safeguard my rights; it's my own responsibility. It is, however, my personal choice to not buy any of Ruger's products. If I am not to be trusted with a 20 round magazine for their Mini-14, I don't care to purchase any of their wares. I have this policy across the board. I don't buy from any company that, through its own self-imposed rules, pursues a two-tier marketing system. Any company that has its own "LE/Military Only" rule for a product will never see a penny of my money for anything else they may sell.
Re: Old Bill hisownself, every interview I ever read with the man left me the impression that he was somewhat of a horse's hindquarters, whatever his virtues as a firearms designer may have been.

Kahr carrier
February 20, 2003, 10:29 AM
We have to remember Bill Ruger is just One man RIP, The company is basically is run probably by a Board of directors that have to answer to stockholders to will make anything that SELLS. They make Firearms but the also make other things like HAMMERS and GOLF CLUBS believe it or not .Point being BILL RUGERS Philosophy probably died with him.:)

Zundfolge
February 20, 2003, 03:53 PM
The big difference between Ruger and those "sporting arms" companies is that they never activly sought more restrictive gun laws.

Winchester, Remington, Perazzi, et. al. may seceretly support the AWB and other anti self-defense sillieness, but they didn't write letters to congress and come out on national television claiming that no honest man needs X product, therefore we will no longer produce it (or we'll continue to produce it but only sell to the police).

seeker_two
February 20, 2003, 05:41 PM
The important difference, as I see it, is that Winchester, Remington, Perazzi, et. al. have more-or-less renounced participation in the "anti-personnel device" market.

http://www.remingtonle.com/images/rifle/700p2.jpg

With exceptional flat shooting capabilities and remarkably high energy retention at extended ranges, the new .300 Ultra Mag is ideal for the extreme and varied demands of long-range security applications.

.Winchester listens to the needs of law enforcement and the U.S. military to develop ammunition to change the industry. From Super-X®to Ranger®, Winchester handgun ammunition has been designed specifically to meet tough military and law enforcement criteria - power, precision, optimum penetration and optimum depth. We gave law enforcement the stopping power for which they were asking.

Guess all that's just for squirrel huntin'....:scrutiny:

MountainPeak
February 21, 2003, 01:43 AM
Seeker, is there a big back log on those "Police 700s"? I know I seem to see lots of them, in the back windows of LEO vehicles, wherever I go.:)

ahadams
February 21, 2003, 01:49 AM
they switched owners, and we'll see about Sturm, Ruger, and Co. now that old Bill is gone, and once the SWB sunsets.

and I still wish I had my 150 series security six back that I sold in 87...argh!

Kahr carrier
February 21, 2003, 09:19 AM
Security sixes are nice but the 150 series are hard to find grips for.:(

seeker_two
February 21, 2003, 12:10 PM
Seeker, is there a big back log on those "Police 700s"?

Don't know, but I haven't been in a police/sherrif's station yet that didn't have a Remington LE catalog laid open on the chief's/sheriff's desk...:scrutiny:

I know I seem to see lots of them, in the back windows of LEO vehicles, wherever I go.

Couldn't be for anti-personnel use. Guess there must be a squirrel problem...:evil:

Tamara
February 21, 2003, 12:31 PM
Don't know, but I haven't been in a police/sherrif's station yet that didn't have a Remington LE catalog laid open on the chief's/sheriff's desk...:scrutiny:

Well, the new one is full of cool Dick Kramer illustrations... ;)

4v50 Gary
February 21, 2003, 01:55 PM
The minimum Ruger Corp. can do is make a 10 round mag for the Mini-14 and Mini-30.

Jeff OTMG
February 23, 2003, 03:59 PM
You guys didn't read my report very carefully:
"Although Ruger currently produces a 20 round Mini-14 magazine for law enforcement, EVEN IF IT WAS NO LONGER RESTRICTED, Ruger would not allow anything beyond the current 5 round magazine for us mere civilians."

I capped the important part for those that missed it. Ruger doesn't make a 10 round mag now, although legal. They didn't sell 20 rounders prior to 1994, at least not to us, and they won't after next year. How clear of a message do you want?

EJ
February 23, 2003, 04:24 PM
That's the point---

Jeff OTMG


They didn't sell 20 rounders prior to 1994

twoblink
February 24, 2003, 03:07 AM
They however are still in the business for the money.. So everybody who has a Mini14 write them that they want 30-rounders, and as soon as the legal problems go away... They will sell them; if you build them, they will buy..

Jeff OTMG
February 24, 2003, 03:56 AM
Write now and tell them you want 10 rounders. It won't do any good. I asked them at the SHOT Show years ago and had so much smoke blown up my nether reaches that I was farting smoke rings for a month. Ruger, the person and the company, are not supporters of the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. Their interest is in the sporting application of firearms, primarily hunting. They also want as much of the police market as possible. If you want to support a company like that have at it, many hunters do, but not pro-gunners.

Dean Speir
February 24, 2003, 11:22 PM
Couple o'points… Sturm Ruger is a publicly-traded corporation, the only gun company around who was until Smith & Wesson went public last year.

It's currently being run by a former USSS guy named Stutler, as major a "johnson" as ever there was. (He was, sad to say, a kick in the slats away from getting axed by Papa Bill's son-in-law from his deathbed about ten years back, but the son-in-law passed away before the termination notice could be executed.) Why anyone would possibly think that Ruger's policies would die with him, is extremely naïve.

But you are on the money, Jeff, when you state that "Their interest is in the sporting application of firearms, primarily hunting. " Are you aware of the relationship between Sturm Ruger and National Shooting Sports Foundation, your and my host ten days ago? NSSF still doesn't allow any sort of humanoid targets displayed, and only last year allowed anything overtly anti-personnel exhibited, and then only in the segregated "LE Section."

BTW: Ruger did sell 30-round Mini-14 magazines commercially for about two years in the mid-80s, then went back to his restrictive policy.

MountainPeak
February 24, 2003, 11:52 PM
Dean, I've read and heard of you in the past. Just visited your site. I book marked it. Sorry it took so long, but my computer time is held back by the demand to work and acquire firearms!

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