[dfariswheel]

I'm starting to hear stories that S&W may be converting all revolvers to the shrouded barrel- barrel liner system first used on the titanium and scandium revolvers.

In this system, the "barrel" is actually a shroud that interlocks with a key-way in the frame.
The actual barrel is a liner that screws into the frame.

The liner has a flange on the front that retains the shroud against the frame.

This system requires a highly specialized "wrench" to remove the barrel and shroud.
This wrench is a rod that fits down the bore of the liner, and interlocks with the rifling.
In use, the wrench actually uses the rifling as a griping surface to allow the liner to be unscrewed.

Naturally, there will be a high potential of damaging the gun if an improper wrench is used, or it's improperly used.

I will assume any barrel work done by anybody other than the factory will void the warranty, and S&W will likely make the wrench unavailable to non-factory gunsmiths.

Understandably, this will allow S&W to hold costs down, since the shroud could be made by casting or even extrusion.
Also, the tensioned barrel liner may enhance accuracy, much like the system used by Dan Wesson.

I'm just not sure I like this idea.

[Bullet Bob]

Where are you hearing the stories from?

[Jim March]

I can think of one easy way to make the right barrel wrench.

Start with a long, tough threaded bolt of about half the bore and 1/3rd longer than the barrel. OK, for clarity's sake, I'll assume we're dealing with a 3" barrel gun so the bolt is 5".

Measure 4" up the bolt, run a pair of nuts up there, then a big washer, then a long rubber tube that will BARELY fit inside the bore on it's own and barely fit over the bolt. Take the two nuts up at the other end and crank them together so they can't rotate. Run the rubber tubing (motorcycle fuel line or similar) down over the bolt, cut it off so that about 3/8ths inch of bolt material is still sticking out.

Run this tube-over-bolt down the barrel from the muzzle end. Cap it with another washer (small ehough to clear the topstrap!) and another nut.

Tighten the hell out of it using the nut inside the frame window.

What you're doing is squishing the rubber between the inner bolt and the rifling. Get it tight enough, and the bolt head can be turned to loosen the barrel. The ONLY material that should touch ANY part of the gun throughout this process, is rubber :cool:.

Do I need to draw a picture here?

[esheato]

If you're confused by Jim's desciption of the tool. It's similar to those universal quick-change choke tube wrenches.

Ed

[Standing Wolf]

If there's a cheaper way to make a gun, Smith & Wesson will find it.

[Litlman]

I will stick mainly to the older S&W's.

[surfinUSA]

I was told this also by a S&W rep at a gunshop where I purchased my 642. According to him the change over thoughout the entire line should be complete by the end of 2005.

[Marshall]

Was he meaning the entire line of handguns, every model and caliber?

If so, I'm out on that deal.

[VonFatman]

I truly love the older S&W's...I'll never own enough!!
I've not purchased any of the newer (post 1981) guns.
The older ones trip my trigger.
I've even stopped looking (very hard that is) at auto-loaders
(which is what I started collectiong).

Bob

[stans]

Shades of Dan Wesson.:scrutiny:

[Lone Star]

Let 'em do what they want. The lock and accompanying styling redesign already drove me out to buy a GP-100 Ruger.

I think I'll join you guys who buy Smiths only if they're the old ones.

Lone Star

[Dave T]

Despite the change in ownership and the end of the Clintonista deal, S&W just keeps doing things to insure I will never buy a new one. Quality goes to hell, doing away with most of their blued models, the hammer lock, not offering any 44 Specials (yea, I know about the Thunder Ranch thing but it has a lock) and now the threat of shrouded barrels.

I'm with those who only buy old Smiths, and anymore anything pre-agreement is in the "old Smith" class.

Dave

[ruger357]

With the exception of my 637 I usually stick with the older ones.

[Ohen Cepel]

Not sure the barrel deal bothers me much. Have to see how well it's done.

However, since they have that stupid lock on them I'm not buying them anyway:cuss:

[mtnbkr]

Shades of Dan Wesson

Except that DW provides the tool to take it apart and sells different length barrels for the same gun to take advantage of that system.

Chris

[stans]

And it is a system that works well.

Former DW owner, sorry I let mine go.:(

[ColtBRH]

Hi,

I'm not that familiar with S&W, except for the bad news I hear all the time. Can someone please tell me why the pre 1982 S&Ws are that much better than the ones of today?

[stans]

S&W was under the control of the Bangor-Punta holding company. By 1982, they were looking for ways to cut costs. They found they could cut costs by crush fitting and deleting the pin on revolver barrels and eliminate the recesses for the case rims on the cylinders. I think they also polished a lot less and put less time in fitting the internal parts. All of this saved money, but quality went down hill.

[mete]

Reinventing the wheel ,the Dan Wesson system started about 35 years ago.

[rolltide]

Mete,
Don't say that too loud. I stated that fact when the new S&W 500 came out with several design features found in the Dan Wessons, including the barrel shroud concept. The primary designer of the new gun for S&W posted that the gun was all original, although he did admit consulting with Dan Wesson Pres. Bob Serva during the design process. I think it is a step in the right direction for S&W to use the barrel shroud, they should just not be so anal about making it impossible for anyone other than the factory to work on. Why not just use a user friendly system like Dan Wesson has perfected. The Dan Wesson system also allows you to adjust the cylinder gap as well. I mean if you are going to copy the Dan Wesson system, don't make it an inferior copy.

Roll Tide

[WorksForMe]

I have a couple new S&W’s. I think the quality is excellent. I’ve got a new CS40 semi-auto and a new 342 Titanium .38 Special.
Both have functioned absolutely flawlessly and I can not find anything wrong with either one.
Anyone that mass produces a product will have a few that just aren’t as good as others. My personal experience has been nothing less than 100% satisfaction with the company and their products.

[stevelyn]

Just when I was falling in love w/ the 25-13 Mountain Gun. :(

[Parker Dean]

Not being a gunsmith I don't see any particular problem with it. Positive features are that it will probably allow the factory to send out guns that have properly aligned front sights and reasonable b-c gaps. My biggest worry is how the end of the barrel is finished. Nobody will say the end of a DW barrel is pretty.

As for the factory maintaining tight control of the proper tool, it may well be true that they will try. However if there's sufficient market to justify it, some aftermarket supplier will make a copy or reasonable alternative

[stans]

My biggest worry is how the end of the barrel is finished. Nobody will say the end of a DW barrel is pretty.

Nope, but it ain't all that bad and they are pretty darned accurate! I think the tension on the barrel reduces vibration and improves accuracy.

[Peter M. Eick]

I agree with the above posts. Sure likes like Smith and Wesson is following Dan Wesson. To bad they don't just come right out and copy the replaceable barrel thing completely.

Got to love them Dans.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/722_target.jpg

[Marshall]

Peter, my gawd, how many rounds had been shot out of theat Dan when you took the pic? I have never had a revolver get that dirty? :eek:

[mtnbkr]

Shoot lead centerfire rounds or just about any 22lr and you'll see a revolver get that dirty. My GP100 looks like that in less than 50rnds of hardcast loads.

Chris

[Peter M. Eick]

2 bricks, 1000 rnds of the stuff.

It was a very fun morning, no big deal, weather was just right and I was practicing DA shooting skills. Maybe this fall when it cools off a bit i will do it again.

[Peter M. Eick]

As long as I am posting DW pictures.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/dw_revolver.jpg

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/md15.jpg

I wish I had shot it better, but the short throw of the double action was causing me to yank the shots a bit at 25 yards. This is a 50 shot target.

The nice thing about the multiple barrel concept is I have put the stainless steel barrel shroud on the blued gun and have several spare cheap barrels and can swap them at will. It only takes about 1 minute to casually swap a barrel and get the gap set up right.


I think if S&W goes the DW way, that will be a major step forward. If they drop the key lock in the side plate I might even consider buying one.

[Poohgyrr]

This barrel thing we'll see about. Otherwise, I can understand being upset about losing specific features that we like & whatnot- there are plenty of things I don't like out there in real life.

But the "new" Smiths I've shot have all been pretty good. The J frame triggers on two M640s are great right out of the box, the 3913 series are great, and the 4" 629 I bought a few years ago is sweet. (I do still prefer the graceful lines of the old blued 3.5" .357's.)

But today's Smiths are pretty good. That lock is ugly, but so are my Glocks, and that morning face I see in the mirror :barf: before my first cup of coffee, shower, and shave.

All in all, S&W has a sweet worldwide reputation, makes revolvers that everyone else tries to copy, and they make some good autos too. Great coffee mugs. :D

There are some other brands that aren't too bad, but if I'm buying new, I just look at Smith, because I know what I'm getting, and that I won't have to worry about it.

My 2 cents on bashing.........

http://img49.exs.cx/img49/2727/M640-1-Renegade.jpg

[fedlaw]

I currently own 2 late model Smith revolvers: A 629PP and a 625-5".
I really like my 629 and as I have posted elsewhere, would be in mourning if anything ever happened to it. It is everything I could want in a firearm, except for its size. It is reliable, accurate and beautiful.
The 625 is still on probation. It is reliable, as long as the strain screw is tightened down; accurate(ish), (I have yet to shoot under 1"@25yds x 6 shots -- 500+rds.); and I am getting used to the glass bead finish. Right now the 625 is at the doctor undergoing what will hopefully be a transformation from good handgun to object of desire.
Steve

[YodaVader]

I wish I had shot it better, but the short throw of the double action was causing me to yank the shots a bit at 25 yards. This is a 50 shot target.

Pretty damn impressive double action shooting - even with the "yanked" shots!!

[Peter M. Eick]

NO NO NO......

This is shooting I can be proud of!

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/single_action.jpg

1939 registered magnum, 50 shots, 15 yards (pretty sure of the 15 yards part, but I always shoot 50 shots per target).







Note to self. Start writing down the ranges on the dang targets......

(getting old so the memory is fading on distances. My range has 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 yard targets. I go to the target that has the best "wood" backer board each day at the range. Thus it varies a lot).