Guy commits suicide at local range.


PDA






Ukraine Train
August 19, 2004, 08:25 PM
I haven't looked for any news articles yet but I've now heard the story from two different people. This happened in Toledo, OH. A guy came into the store, rented a gun, went into the range shot himself in the head. I can't imagine being there for that...

If you enjoyed reading about "Guy commits suicide at local range." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
wasrjoe
August 19, 2004, 08:37 PM
What an idiot. Suicide is one thing, public suicide earns a "good riddance" from me. Perhaps I am insensitive.

gbelleh
August 19, 2004, 08:38 PM
That's happened a couple times in the range where I shoot. I hope it never happens when I'm there. :eek: :barf:

Vapor63
August 19, 2004, 08:40 PM
I agree with you man! When someone decides to kill themselves, thats sad. When someone decides to take everyone down with them, in this case, the anti gun-control movement, thats just inconsiderate.

Ala Dan
August 19, 2004, 08:49 PM
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Some persons have lots of problems, even more than others'; but
suicide is not the answer!


Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

PBIR
August 19, 2004, 08:51 PM
On target with that one Dan.

XLMiguel
August 19, 2004, 08:58 PM
We've had a couple at a local range out by Chantilly. I won't comment on why people do stuff like that, but it is damn inconsiderate of the folks who have to clean up after you.:rolleyes:

Standing Wolf
August 19, 2004, 09:15 PM
I believe a case can be made for suicide.

I'm very sure there's no justification for making a mess for someone else to clean up.

P95Carry
August 19, 2004, 09:18 PM
At least do it in private --- even so tho, some poor sucker has to mop up brains and bone fragments.

Sad - very sad.:(

>SHOCK<^>WAVE<
August 19, 2004, 10:12 PM
I suspect they probably didn't have the money to buy a gun and that was the only affordable method since most suicides are precluded by financial problems, still very disgusting and wrong.

Damon
August 19, 2004, 10:13 PM
I've heard of this at our local range also.

Chupacabra
August 19, 2004, 10:54 PM
One of the ranges here has a policy where you can't rent a gun unless you have someone with you. I guess a couple years ago, someone rented a gun, took it into the bathroom and used it on himself.

:uhoh:

Stand_Watie
August 19, 2004, 11:21 PM
Awfully sad.

Particularly sad are the suicides by people who don't have any good reason, which is probably 99%. It's somewhat understandable from someone who has a terminal disease, or the elderly person who has no family and has just lost their spouse, but the vast majority of these are kids who have an entire, potentially great, life in front of them, or just someone with a mental illness.

Of course Sarah Brady et al, will be happy to exploit this for their agenda, feigning ignorance that jumping, self-hanging or carbon-monoxide poisoning are just as lethal methods of suicide.

Ukraine Train
August 19, 2004, 11:37 PM
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?SearchID=73181281799053&Avis=TO&Dato=20040810&Kategori=NEWS03&Lopenr=408100349&Ref=AR

Article published Tuesday, August 10, 2004

CLELAND'S COPES WITH TRAGEDY
Suicidal shooters find ranges are convenient
Renting firearm easier than buying one

By ROBIN ERB
BLADE STAFF WRITER

It's a tragedy that has played out across the nation's firing ranges, and Saturday it struck Cleland's Outdoor World on Airport Highway.

Marked as a convicted sex offender and facing the end of his career and marriage, Richard Borruso, 52, a pharmacist who lived on Dussel Drive in Maumee, walked in to Cleland's, set down $40 in cash, went into a practice booth, and shot himself in the head.

"This fellow was completely calm and composed," said Mike Mobley, who was practicing in the stall next to Borruso's.

While owner Theresa Cleland said it was the first suicide in Cleland's 20-year history, ranges across the country have been the site of public suicides by people seeking easy access to a gun.

Renting a firearm at a firing range allows a person to bypass the federal waiting period required to buy a gun. Borruso's conviction last year of molesting a 14-year-old girl may have made such a purchase improbable.

Preventing deaths on firing ranges might be impossible - and dangerous, said Rick Patterson, executive director of the National Association of Shooting Ranges, who said such shootings occur "from time to time."

For one thing, there are no red flag behaviors that would hint at such an intention, he said.

"It's quite the opposite," he said, adding that suicidal individuals may appear calm or relaxed. "What the psychologists have told us is that these people have made their decision."

"And the psychologists have told us, if you try to interfere, go into harm's way, you've created an unsafe situation," he added.

In Ohio, there are few regulations on shooting ranges. State law gives Ohio Department of Natural Resources' Division of Wildlife authority to set some regulations, but those are limited to nuisance type restrictions such as limits on noise levels, said Jim Lehman, a district manager for the wildlife division.

That means there are no background checks and no detailed questionnaires on a shooter's history on a gun range.

The first concern for range owners is how safely someone can handle firearms, said Jim Fletcher, general manager at Toledo Trap and Skeet. He said staff at his range query a potential user about their experience with guns, and users might be asked to demonstrate the handling of their weapon and its safety features before they're allowed on the range.

"It's a matter of how much do we police it?" Mr. Fletcher said. "We limit the accessibility to our range to those who can demonstrate the ability to handle firearms safely."

Even if they asked questions about someone's background or mental stability that day, range staff would have to rely on the applicant's truthfulness, he noted.

Certainly it wouldn't be easy for staff to foresee such a suicidal plan, according to Dr. Douglas Jacobs, an associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School known for his expertise on detecting suicidal signs.

Of the 30,000 estimated suicides each year in the U.S., about 1,500 are committed inside the confines of a hospital where staff are trained to watch for such behavior, he said.

"If [suicidal persons] can do it in a hospital, they can do it on a firing range," Dr. Jacobs said. Firing range staff are "not clinicians and they're not expected to be."

Still, this doesn't make it any easier for folks like Theresa Cleland. She had heard of such suicides at other ranges around the country, and, in fact, a Cleland's customer tried to kill himself several years ago.

But putting in more rules and regulations, she said, would not stop deaths like that of Borruso, who was facing the revocation of his pharmacist's license because of last year's conviction, and last week had attended a court hearing on his pending divorce.

"Believe me, I've shed tears," she said. But "I can't punish the world for what one person did."

Lucas County Sheriff's Detective Cathy Stooksbury, who handled the suicide case, noted that the man who tried to kill himself at Cleland's several years ago, ultimately did so through another means.

"If someone really wants to do this," she said, "they're going to."

Contact Robin Erb at:
robinerb@theblade.com
or 419-724-6133.

P5 Guy
August 19, 2004, 11:40 PM
It beats having a news conference like Bud Dwyer did in Philly 20 some years ago.

M2 Carbine
August 20, 2004, 12:05 AM
There probably wouldn't be a mess if the government, society and the churches didn't think they owned a persons life.

We give our animals a decent humane death but we force people into a terrible messy death that is hard on every one around them.

It's inexcusable that someone has to blow their brains out when they could take a pill and peacefully go to sleep.

azrael
August 20, 2004, 12:11 AM
P5 guy...yea a group called Filter even wrote a song about that incedent...I have watched it (the video of the shooting) more than once...The guy is babbling somewhat before he does it, but doesnt seem to upset about it..more or less "nonchalant"...


IMHO about 85-90% of suicides are as Ala Dan said...<permanent solution's to a temporary problem.>..

however
I decided many years ago, that if I was dignosed with an incurable disease I would take care of matters myself before I allowed my family to bear the burden of caring for me financially...Ruin, no matter the way it happens is ruin ...

In Private to me is the best way... below is what I decided was the more or less "trouble" free way of doing it
Lots of woods around where I live...call the police before I wander off into the woods with a single barrell 12 gauge...no mess to clean up...Animals need to eat as well...heck, since I am a machinist and brakeman by trade, I could prolly make a serviceable shot gun to do the deed with...


be advised...I am not advocating ANYONE taking there own life and noone should think that I am...just stating my opinion

M2 Carbine
August 20, 2004, 12:26 AM
azrael
I decided many years ago, that if I was dignosed with an incurable disease I would take care of matters myself before I allowed my family to bear the burden of caring for me financially...Ruin, no matter the way it happens is ruin ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Azrael,
That's downright un American of you.
You are supposed to lay in the hospital for a couple weeks so you can wipe out all the savings you put aside for your family to live on if you died.

Ya, I've got my own woods. ;)

Ric
August 20, 2004, 12:33 AM
That happened at a range in Ft. Wayne a couple of years ago, they stopped renting guns. So did a local gun range
It's a shame

Trebor
August 20, 2004, 01:45 AM
There was a weird suicide incident at a range in Royal Oak a few years ago. The guy apparently offed himself in the restroom. The weird thing was, he was found handcuffed to the handicapped bar in the stall.

I don't know if it was a rental gun or his own gun.

SodiumBenzoate
August 20, 2004, 01:54 AM
Renting a firearm at a firing range allows a person to bypass the federal waiting period required to buy a gun.

....


:banghead:

I hope they meant background check.

themic
August 20, 2004, 01:58 AM
a range i used to rent guns at asked you alot of the same questions as are asked when you purchase - are you a felon, are you insane, etc.

of course, there was no actual check done - just a sheet of paper with your signature on it.

Tharg
August 20, 2004, 03:51 AM
Said it in a different post and i'll say it again here.

If you've never been there you don't know.

I've been at the spot... loaded HK USP .40 compact w/ one in the barrel. Safety was on.... not that i dind't know how to turn it off. Drink in one hand w/ a smoke dangling between fingers.

at that exact moment in time - and the VERY fast and dangerous drive home - i didn't feel excited, scared, worried, anxious, happy, sad, .... i felt ...................................... nothing.

When a person gets to that point.... hell i don't know. I don't know if i would have gone through w/ it... but either way it would have turned out - the gf's kid came home. (he was supposed to be staying at grandma's... about 100 yrds away) Once i got him put to bed - it had decided itself and i was going to put the gun away - but not before i decided to point the gun at myself in the rather large mirror in the bathroom and start to pull the trigger... thinking i knew where the sear point was.... well ... i didn't. Hole through the mirror, two bits of sheetrock and federal hydrashok was fragmented in the laundry room cabniet doors behind that....

of course - 1st thought was the kid... and the noise... mag pop - jack slide - put up gun in closet... assure child all was well. (somehow)

I vowed never EVER to be "there" again. and i won't be. Too many <insert male nastyness here> to do, too many friends to laugh with, so many times w/ my brother... the love of my ever loving life... to NOT live till its really time.

Suicide is the culmination of being too stuck on yourself. Its the ultimate pitty party... the most selfish you can get. Its wanting to quickly be gone from something and not caring what it does to ANYONE else. Always makes me wonder how many "finacial problem" suicides might have won the lottery.... or heck - even "happened" into that dream job. Ya don't know if ya don't go - and so they chose....? what? nothing?!? It can't be religious... don't know many that say its ok... even the samurai did it for honor... not for themselves... same w/ comacasies (spelling i'm sure)

Course - here i am ... w/ a kid who's mom can get suicidal (and has tried it on the edge... wasn't convinced she should go i guess) and a dad who DID commit suicide... wondering when he's gonna off himself - while at the same time going i'm sick and tired of him using us when he can't think of another way to go.... (and being downright obvious about it)

bah

life sucks.... sometimes it just sucks less. (and then sometimes ya get to go shoot a LOT of ammo at nothing - and yer grinning ear to ear....) who is to say. =)

rofl - ANYWAY - the point was to say ya - no one is gonna know when that person shows up at a range to shoot if they are going to off themselves... they prolly seem affable... they've made thier decision. The one's who haven't... won't be there is my guess.

J/Tharg!

twoblink
August 20, 2004, 05:54 AM
I suspect they probably didn't have the money to buy a gun and that was the only affordable method since most suicides are precluded by financial problems, still very disgusting and wrong.

Hello??

Pool? Bathtub? 5 gallon paint bucket? mini blinds? Jump in front of moving traffic?

Hairdryer + bathtub = expensive electricity bill and a free ride to hell..

At least do the gun owners a favor... geez... Even in death, the anti's ruin everything..

Gabe
August 20, 2004, 06:20 AM
My local range also has a suicide prevention policy. You either had to bring a friend or your own gun to rent theirs. I guess the idea was if you had your own gun you wouldn't go there to shoot yourself.

A perfectly planned day of shooting was derailed by this policy.

MP5
August 20, 2004, 07:34 AM
One range I've visited switched their rentals to members only. Members have to fill out more paperwork and have it checked over, as opposed to the old way, where it was really easy for anyone to walk in and rent one after answering a few written questions. I have no idea if this stems from some unfortunate incident or whether they're wisely trying to cover their asses proactively.

Z_Infidel
August 20, 2004, 11:08 AM
I've made it a point to shoot on Cleland's range since the incident to show support for the business, and because I like shooting there anyway. Several others have been shooting on the days I've been there so it doesn't seem to be hurting them -- a good thing, as they are really nice folks to do business with.

BeLikeTrey
August 20, 2004, 11:22 AM
Please don't take the firearm... Someone could find it, A hiker or their child etc. Don't want that gun (even a disposable one) falling into wrong hands. Just take yourself out there with a pill or something. BY THE WAY, I AM NOT ADVOCATING SUICIDE! I DISAGREE WITH IT. But i also don't want another death due to unattended firearms left behind ;)

Jiml3
August 20, 2004, 12:17 PM
Interestingly suicide is sometimes an act of aggression against someone else.
Examples; A police officer's teenage daughter shot and killed herself with
her father's off duty gun on her birthday.

A successful dentist and his wife came home from a day trip to find when they opened the garage door, their college age daughter dead. She had sealed the garage door, started the other car and died from the fumes. All this because her grades were falling at college. Here father had earlier told her to take a year off or choose a different course. He and his wife were not pushing her to become a lawyer.

People sometimes can't see beyond their problems and stike out at the person they belive is responsible. It appears they are sending the message that they cannot cope with the problem and you are responsible for it, therefore you are responsible for the suicide, now you live with the guilt. If they are not going to seek help. In most cases these people are not aggressive enough to attack the person they perceive to be responsible for their problems.

steveno
August 20, 2004, 12:30 PM
there was an indoor range several years ago in the Denver area in the span of a month I think that two people came in and committed sucide. they stopped renting guns for a while anyway and I don't know if they have changed or not.

Onmilo
August 20, 2004, 12:46 PM
What a copout a**hole!

Andrew Rothman
August 20, 2004, 01:22 PM
At Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Minneapolis, a gun rental requires a MN permit-to-purchase (takes a week, costs nothing, not $10, good for a year) or a permit to carry (takes up to 30 days to get, costs $100, good for five years).

This would seem to accomplish two purposes:

1. It shifts responsibility for determining fitness to hold a gun from the range to the state, thus potentially decreasing liability, and...

2. It imposes a de-facto "waiting period" on someone who wants to rent a gun just to shoot himself.

Carlos Cabeza
August 20, 2004, 01:33 PM
I don't agree with the man going to the range to off himself but I do think its his life to choose to do as he pleases as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. If a person has conditioned themselves for the final act it's not hard to see why the man was calm, collected and showed no signs of distress. A heart shot doesn't produce nearly the mess as a head shot and is easier to clean up. Don't ask how I know this, I really don't care to explain.
If all other alternatives have been exhausted then I don't see a problem with the act. There are other ways but I think most who contemplate suicide think gun to be less painless.

Girlwithagun
August 20, 2004, 01:39 PM
Sad story. But what makes me really angry is that a couple people on this thread have mentioned that they would use a gun to take their own life. I think its cowardly and selfish to take your own life but for goodness sake, don't become one of the statistics the antis use to take the rest of our guns away. :banghead:

Oderus
August 20, 2004, 01:50 PM
Someone showed me the video of Budd Dwyer's suicide press conference recently. It was haunting. I don't want to be present for anyone's suicide. Of course, around here, there aren't any "ranges". Just miles and miles of wilderness.

Ktulu
August 20, 2004, 01:51 PM
ARG! There is things worse then death, to be sure, but I doubt this guy was experiencing any of them. What a POS. I have zero compassion for this guy or anyone like him. You want to kill yourself? Fine. Don't put it on others. If I feel anything about this, I feel for the people who were forced to witness this crap and the poor gun store owner.

Nathanael_Greene
August 20, 2004, 01:52 PM
Sad story. But what makes me really angry is that a couple people on this thread have mentioned that they would use a gun to take their own life. I think its cowardly and selfish to take your own life but for goodness sake, don't become one of the statistics the antis use to take the rest of our guns away.

I agree with you, but it's a little unreasonable to expect someone who doesn't care anything about his own life to care much about yours.

Ala Dan
August 20, 2004, 02:03 PM
Most recently, while working as a security officer at a local
hospital ER; a 15 year old girl was brought in by EMT's due
to a self-inflicted gunshot wound to her temple. Needless
to say she was DOS; and the incident was due to being
grounded for driving her brothers car! Senseless~

an act of rebellion towards her parents, I suppose?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

M2 Carbine
August 20, 2004, 02:20 PM
"Ktulu

ARG! There is things worse then death, to be sure, but I doubt this guy was experiencing any of them. What a POS. I have zero compassion for this guy or anyone like him. You want to kill yourself? Fine. Don't put it on others. If I feel anything about this, I feel for the people who were forced to witness this crap and the poor gun store owner."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ktulu,

You and others are making my point.

If the people that are suffering (for wherever reason) were allowed access to a peaceful, human way to die, probably most would do so and not have to borrow a gun at a shooting range.

It certainally would be easier on them, their families and friends if they could take a pill and go to "sleep".

We give the worst child molester murderer a peaceful death but make decent people resort to terrible things like shooting themselves.

As far as you people that are bad mouthing someone that's in such pain as to kill themselves, I hope you never have to face such a thing.

No, actually I hope you do since you are so damned arrogant and unfeeling.

Jiml3
August 20, 2004, 03:37 PM
Ktulu;

You seem to have a great deal of anger and as you say, no compassion for the person that takes his own life. Are you so upset that he left a mess for others to clean up? While that would piss me off, I still would feel compassion for a tortured person that felt that was the only way out. While you may not think
that way, you haven't walked in their shoes. Maybe they went thru some for of hell you can't even imagine must less have been able to cope with. How about giving the person the benefit of doubt? You can be angry at the act and the waste of life but don't condemn the person for leaving the hell they are in.

Feanaro
August 20, 2004, 10:15 PM
Maybe they went thru some for of hell you can't even imagine must less have been able to cope with.

My experiance with suicidals is that at least 90% of them don't have any real problems. Besides being temporary problems as Dan suggests, they are pretty insignificant. Perhaps he had some real troubles that he couldn't fix. But he put OTHER people through hell by publicly killing himself. It's a very nasty experiance to watch someone blow themselves all over the wall, not to mention the mess.

Barbara
August 21, 2004, 12:13 AM
Geez..I work 1/2 mile from that range and hadn't even heard about it. :(

Range Ninja
August 21, 2004, 01:14 AM
The guy must have had mental problems, good riddance. Thankfully he will not be consuming any more taxes in order to be treated at a hospital or in jail.

M2 Carbine
August 21, 2004, 01:47 AM
"Range Ninja
The guy must have had mental problems, good riddance. Thankfully he will not be consuming any more taxes in order to be treated at a hospital or in jail."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That sounds very motcho.

Remember to say it at the funeral if it happens to a friend or someone in your family.

Selfdfenz
August 21, 2004, 02:31 AM
I was a close friend of a family that had a child commit suicide.
Believe me, it shatters the lives of the survivors be they family or friends.

I don't know what the future holds but I hope and pray I never have an illness or tragedy that would force me to even remotely consider this way out.

S-

The_Antibubba
August 21, 2004, 08:02 AM
Feanaro (and Ktulu, and other fortunates),

To an outside observer, perhaps the problems might not seem so bad, but when depression and panic and despair fall on you-very heavily it falls, too-and you cannot take a breath without fear filling every cell, death seems like a gift.

Do you know what it is like to want to die, because the world has fallen apart around you, and you don't know anything about anything anymore, and you're not even sure who you've turned into and WHY this is happening? I have. I know those feelings.

With me, the difference is that I know that, horrible as it is, it will eventually pass. I will take medication that will pacify the waves of panic, and I will take other Godsent meds that will lift the darkness from my mind. I will get up, dust myself off, and begin again.

I've done it before, many times. I will probably have to do it again, and it really does get harder as I get older-it takes longer to recover. But I am resilient, and I have a purpose in life that anchors me here, so I have to get through it.

But not everyone handles it as well. Some people it hits unexpectedly, later in their lives, with no warning, and they have no idea what to do with it. Others get it in their teens, when everything is already overwhelming and they don't have a clue who they are and how much their family really loves them, or that it will get better. Some don't respond to any medication, or any treatment, and suffer for decades before they seek the final out. Neurochemistry has made some great advances, but treating depression is still no better than voodoo and folklore sometimes. Add the mysteries of Mind, and Soul, for which pharmacology has no treatments (though venues for them do exist, too).

I truly pray that you never find yourself curled into the fetal position, crying and wimpering in terror over nothing really serious. May your brain continue to secrete all the right neurotransmitters in the proper amounts at the proper time. I hope you never look at your guns as an escape from pain, or look in your medicine cabinet with fear, or wonder what would happen if you stepped off the curb in front of the bus. If you have teenagers, I hope they know and feel the depth and breadth of your love for them. I hope your friends always know they can talk to you about anything. I hope you know that you are not alone, not ever.

I pray you never truly, intimately KNOW what I am talking about.

And I hope you can learn compassion for those of us who do.


Peace.

readyfire
August 21, 2004, 08:49 AM
My best friend when i was 18 killed himself with a 45 to the head,know one new or even had a clue that this would happen.My friend found him in a field face down.He was a fun kid,seemed happy.I wish i would have known his pain.i DONT THINK SUICIDES THE ANSWER and i was pretty tornup about it.They blamed his friends for it at the viewing,that was a cheap excuse to take it off his parents for not being their for him and recognizing his pain.

whm1974
August 21, 2004, 08:58 AM
At Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Minneapolis, a gun rental requires a MN permit-to-purchase (takes a week, costs $10, good for a year) or a permit to carry (takes up to 30 days to get, costs $100, good for five years).

This would seem to accomplish two purposes:

1. It shifts responsibility for determining fitness to hold a gun from the range to the state, thus potentially decreasing liability, and...

2. It imposes a de-facto "waiting period" on someone who wants to rent a gun just to shoot himself.

This might reduce liability, but I'll doubt it will stop anyone from shooting himself.

-Bill

M2 Carbine
August 21, 2004, 11:38 AM
"readyfire
New Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15
My best friend when i was 18 killed himself with a 45 to the head,know one new or even had a clue that this would happen.My friend found him in a field face down.He was a fun kid,seemed happy.I wish i would have known his pain.i DONT THINK SUICIDES THE ANSWER and i was pretty tornup about it.They blamed his friends for it at the viewing,that was a cheap excuse to take it off his parents for not being their for him and recognizing his pain."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

readyfire, I grew up in Maryland.

My father shot himself when I was very young. Too young to have guilt feelings about it at the time, but I've thought about it.
Maybe if I had been a better son?
But I dismiss it because I was too young to knowingly be a good or bad son.

Apart from the terrible depression that "The_Antibubba" describes there are other reasons that people give up on or want to end their lives.

Sometimes suicide is the answer. (probably not for your young friend though)

For different reasons some people's life is ended.
The ONLY reason some of them are still alive is because they have responsibilities and they don't want to put those close to them through the pain.

This only makes it worse for them since they feel trapped having to continue a life that is nothing but mental and or physical pain.

In any case the decision to end their life is nobody else's fault or responsibility.


And like I said before it's terrible that our society won't let them die as peacefully as we let a child killer die. :fire:

Johnson
August 21, 2004, 01:51 PM
couldn't he at least have waited until the range marshall called ceasefire? :D

Cyberdyne systems
August 21, 2004, 02:36 PM
suicide at the range can be very dangerous for others, because sometimes they will shoot the guy in the stall next to them before killing themselves, I have heard of this happening before, they want to take somebody else with them when they die, it may be you or me or whoever is near them when they decide to do it:fire:

Wolfy
August 21, 2004, 03:15 PM
This happened in NJ but the lady lived. She walked into a indoor range to rent a gun and asked the guy what is the best place to shoot someone to kill them the guy says COM. She goes into the stall loads the 38 and puts one into her chest it goes through and through. She puts the gun down walks out to her car and drives herself home and her husband drove her to the doctor. Now heres the scariest part of the story the range's reaction was to get a mop bucket and start cleaning up the blood. They didn't call the police!!!!!!! Fortunately for them an off duty LEO was there and called it into the local PD.

The_Antibubba
August 21, 2004, 05:33 PM
coundn't he at least have waited until range marshall called cease fire?


:D Thanks for the laugh, Johnson!

Ktulu
August 23, 2004, 11:59 AM
JimL3 et al., I understand suicide, depression, a sense of hopelessness, etc. I’ve experienced some of these things myself and I’ve had a front row seat while others experienced them. I simply have no compassion for people who can think of nothing but themselves.

The man's deeds speak volumes.

Marked as a convicted sex offender and facing the end of his career and marriage, Richard Borruso, 52, a pharmacist who lived on Dussel Drive in Maumee, walked in to Cleland's, set down $40 in cash, went into a practice booth, and shot himself in the head.

If you have compassion for such people, good for you. You are better men then I. As cold as it might seem, I could care less about this guy.

M2 Carbine
August 23, 2004, 12:30 PM
Ktulu
I simply have no compassion for people who can think of nothing but themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ktulu,
Some reasons for suicide is because the person IS thinking of others.
One reason I can think of is, a critically ill Father kills himself because he doesn't want his illness to eat up all the savings that his family will need to live on when he dies.
It can easily cost several thousand dollars in medical bills before our example father dies, leaving the family broke and heavily in debt.


But in the case of the convicted sex offender's suicide :D :D :D :D :evil:

Andrew Rothman
August 23, 2004, 01:03 PM
At Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Minneapolis, a gun rental requires a MN permit-to-purchase (takes a week, costs $10, good for a year) or a permit to carry (takes up to 30 days to get, costs $100, good for five years).

This would seem to accomplish two purposes:

1. It shifts responsibility for determining fitness to hold a gun from the range to the state, thus potentially decreasing liability, and...

2. It imposes a de-facto "waiting period" on someone who wants to rent a gun just to shoot himself.


This might reduce liability, but I'll doubt it will stop anyone from shooting himself.

-Bill


It won't stop anyone, but it is very likely to deter people from choosing that range and that means of offing themselves -- it just takes too damn long to set up.

Think about it: if you have either permit, you can buy your owen gun, same-day. And if you have a gun already, you needn't go to the range to kill yourself.

Anyway, it seems to work. No suicides there so far -- and lots of other ranges have had `em.

juggler
August 23, 2004, 01:57 PM
A convicted sexual molester kills himself and I just can't bring myself to care.
I guess I have not reached that level of spiritual awareness...my sympathy is reserved for his victim and those left to deal with the mess (financial, emotional and physical).
This scum didn't do it to save anyone grief, he was sorry he got caught.

Sistema1927
August 23, 2004, 02:10 PM
Quite a few suicides check into motels and then shoot themselves, probably to keep their family from having to clean up the mess at home.

I saw one case where a 17 year old girl snuck dad's .45 out of the house, rented a motel room, and sat up in bed and shot herself through the temple. The bullet passed cleanly through her head, went through the wall above the headboard, into the adjoining room, passed over a sleeping couple, and bounced off of the wooden dresser on the other side of the room onto the carpet. When I entered the room the weapon had flipped over in her hand and was facing the doorway upside down with her finger still in the trigger guard and the next round chambered. Once the weapon was secured, we noticed that there was a bullet hole into the next room, and woke up the couple who were fast asleep and never heard the gunshot. There was no deformation to the 230 grain ball slug.

This one didn't leave much mess, just a little blood on the bed. Another case where a guy shot himself behind the ear with a .22 pistol led to a situation where he bled out all over the wall, bed, carpet, etc. I don't imagine the motel rented that room out for the next few nights.

Cosmoline
August 23, 2004, 03:05 PM
This practice is slowly but surely putting an end to gun rentals. I don't know any local ranges that rent firearms or have loaners anymore.

Range Ninja
August 24, 2004, 10:03 AM
M2 Carbine, I don't exactly know what "motcho" means.:D
I'm sorry I'm not more sensitive.
However, don't assume I haven't had a friend that hasn't committed suicide. I knew a guy that was having troubles with his girl friend in college and decided he need to put a 20 ga. to his face and pull the trigger. To say this guy was a bit emotional is an understatement.
His roomates who were shooting pool with me, returned to their apartment to find him slumped on the floor with a good sized hole through his head. The guy never thought of how it would effect his family or friends, he was very selfish in his actions.

Jiml3
August 24, 2004, 01:40 PM
Ktulu;

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my earlier post. I was not against a convicted sex offender taking his life, I was against what appeared to be a condemnation of all people who commit suicide. When someone is going thru a living hell with
no hope in sight and takes their own life, I agree that it is a selfish act, but I can and do accept it. I hate the act, but feel strong compassion for the individual. I also like to give people the benefit of the doubt. When you own a dog that is past his time and riddled with pain, out of compassion and love, we put the dog down. I would like to see some of that same compassion given to humans.

Ktulu
August 24, 2004, 02:00 PM
Jim, I think we agree much more then we disagree.

juggler
August 24, 2004, 02:04 PM
OK, I can see your point on that one. I've put down a few pets in my time, and each and every one was an emotional experience. Not easy, even though I'd done all I could to that point and they obviously required me to step in and do the right thing. (Yeah, I know, pets aren't people...just running with Jiml3's post)
So if your issue is with our (society's) inability to extend the same courtesy and compassion to humans as we do to animals I agree.
Rapists, child molesters and murderers, on the other hand, should go painfully.

M2 Carbine
August 24, 2004, 02:07 PM
Well, I'm not sympathetic or even sorry for everyone that commits suicide.

There are some people that if they wanted to kill themselves I'd buy the ammo for them.
Like the convicted sexual molester we are talking about.



Quote,
"The guy never thought of how it would effect his family or friends, he was very selfish in his actions."

There are many reasons to make someone kill themselves and not all are
"very selfish actions".


I don't believe my father killing himself was a selfish action.

If there were selfish actions they were by his family and friends for not helping him through his problems.
(but I don't know, I was too young to know what was going on)



With the young especially, the family and friends may not see it coming but probably many times the family and friends are "so hurt" because they were part of the problem to begin with.



Anyhow, MY bottom line is a person's life is their own and only their's to do with what they please.

It would be better if they choose to end it without dangering anyone else.

M2 Carbine
August 24, 2004, 02:18 PM
Until this thread I never knew this was a problem at the public ranges.

Once in a great while maybe, but not enough to stop gun rentals or possibly shut down ranges.

There must be easier, less messy ways to go.

glockster
August 27, 2004, 03:53 PM
Suicide is the most sellfish,self centered act that a person could do. Second is divorce.

And as was stated prior is when the person commits suicide in a shooting range. They drag everyone else into it as well.

And it just gives Brady,Boxer and Feindstein more ammo for their Nazi,Communist agenda.

If you enjoyed reading about "Guy commits suicide at local range." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!