CCW nationwide total


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Rimmer
August 20, 2004, 12:50 AM
I was reading another thread (Concealed Carry & Homeland Threats?) and got to thinking. Anyone have an idea of how many CCW holders are carrying in the U.S.A.? I want to believe it's probably close to 300,000 maybe more.

I consider it a huge positive for LE/retired/active to now legally carry concealed out of state (HR 218?) it effectively increases the overall defense of our country at no cost to the taxpayer.

Would it be a stretch to say that between the two groups we now have close to 500,000 legal firearms on the street? Even though that seems like a big number I'm thinking we need a whole bunch more.

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Sunray
August 20, 2004, 01:03 AM
"...a huge positive for LE/retired/active..." It's not really. It means that if you live in a non-CCW state, you're a second class citizen. A retired cop is no longer a cop. He's just another retired guy. In any case, most cops can't shoot to save their own lives never mind your's. Cops are more dangerous than any non-cop shooter. They're the most irresponsible firearm users anywhere.

Steve in PA
August 20, 2004, 01:09 AM
:rolleyes:

Col. Mustard
August 20, 2004, 01:19 AM
"...a huge positive for LE/retired/active..." It's not really. It means that if you live in a non-CCW state, you're a second class citizen. A retired cop is no longer a cop. He's just another retired guy.

HR 218 provides that retired cops may carry CCW in any state, regardless of that state's CCW law (with certain exceptions relative to school, churches, etc., and recurring requalification)

In any case, most cops can't shoot to save their own lives never mind your's. Cops are more dangerous than any non-cop shooter. They're the most irresponsible firearm users anywhere.

I'm going to guess that a firearm in your hands would be (if Canada allowed it) pretty dangerous, also...

DigMe
August 20, 2004, 01:21 AM
Texas alone has over 250,000 people with concealed handgun licenses. It's probably closer to 300,000 by now. The total for the US is probably far more.

brad cook

Trebor
August 20, 2004, 01:38 AM
Michigan topped the 100,000 CPL (Concealed Pistol License) mark a year ago. I know because I wrote a newspaper article on it at the time. I've heard that the current total is in the 110,000 to 120,000 range. This does NOT count off-duty cops, who generally aren't required to have a CPL.

P95Carry
August 20, 2004, 01:44 AM
PA has, supposedly - an uptake of some 6% .. which means out of a nominal 10 mil population .. there are ... something like 600,000 .... let's be conservative tho and say 500,000 ..... half a mil!!!

Rather impressive I think! And I am one of those.!! :)

Nationwide hard to tell .. but .... the numbers seem good to me!

SodiumBenzoate
August 20, 2004, 01:50 AM
I want to believe it's probably close to 300,000 maybe more.
By the rate of CCW permits per 1,000 adults:

Population 18 years or older (2000)
Carry permits (approx.)
Permits per every 1,000 adults

1. New York
14,286,350
1,110,150
77.71

2. Indiana
4,506,089
302,000
67.02

3. Pennsylvania
9,358,833
525,600
56.16

4. Washington
4,380,278
225,200
51.41

5. Connecticut
2,563,877
125,000
48.75

6. Idaho
924,923
39,480
42.68

7. Utah
1,514,471
59,565
39.33

8. Tennessee
4,290,762
160,000
37.29

9. Kentucky
3,046,951
86,200
28.29

10. Florida
12,336,038
332,400
26.95

So, just by that, there are a couple million, and that doesn't even include all the states.

themic
August 20, 2004, 01:56 AM
#1 - NEW YORK? :eek: :confused:

SodiumBenzoate
August 20, 2004, 02:11 AM
#1 - NEW YORK?

IIRC, the permit you need to own a handgun is the same as the one you need to carry it, so if you want to own a handgun, you get a permit to carry it.

CyberSniper
August 20, 2004, 02:24 AM
I don't think any major gun rights group has looked at this angle and it needs to be broadcast far and wide.
With the estimate listed, you have close to 3 million 'licensed' CCW on the street. The figures for NY are probably way too high but florida probably has more (don't forget their non-resident permits). I read somewhere that Arizona has around 120,000 on their streets.

So just think if the average Josephine hears that there are over 5 million CCW's out there and crime hasn't increased but has gone down - how do you think they will react?

I used to be quite active on the net but went low profile after 911. I have been a lurker here since the formation of this board but I got so excited over this idea that I registered in order to post. I want some one to compile the stats and then we need to convince the gun rights groups to spew forth.

SS nka... CS

Can'thavenuthingood
August 20, 2004, 03:11 AM
So if the individual states maintain a count of CCW's, wouldn't they also have them separated by citizen and retired LEO?

How would the Federal agency counts be listed? By total fed permits or each separate agency? Would they also breakout retired vs active counts?

I suspect some states, like California, would be difficult to get a count and have it separated by citizen, and retired LEO if you got a count at all. Though many things are public information, some things seem tough to get for security reason's.

Ought to be able to get a closer count than an estimate though.

I agree the New York estimate sounds high what with all the stories I hear about gun control back there. A pleasant surprise.

There may be a lot more surprises out there.

Vick

NukemJim
August 20, 2004, 07:42 AM
I agree the New York estimate sounds high what with all the stories I hear about gun control back there.

I am a bit unclear on the details of the NY "carry" permit. What little understanding I have of it has me thinking that there may be more than one type of meaning for the term "carry permit"

Anyone from New York on the board ?

Confused


NukemJim

mec
August 20, 2004, 08:49 AM
The best guess I've seen is about a year old and comes to 3,500,000. since then though, several more states have passed legislation and numbers continue to grow in the others.

Matter of fact,its just about impossible to get a real number. Some states aren't even sure how many active licenses they have.

And police marksmanship has improved a great deal over the last couple of decades. More training across the board. Some still can't hit a bull in the butt but a lot of them are getting better.

Majic
August 20, 2004, 10:00 AM
According to people I know in NY the permits can be a real muddy water affair. You need a permit to just have a handgun. Then there are permits to carry. One of the carry permits are for hunting and recreational shooting. The other carry permit is for personal defence. They said don't get caught with a permit marked hunting and recreational shooting and not be on a direct path to the hunting fields or target ranges. That is heavily frowned upon.

Can'thavenuthingood
August 20, 2004, 11:11 AM
Might be a good thing there is no exact count as that would indicate a database of some sort, which would in turn be a list of address'.

Vick

Rimmer
August 20, 2004, 11:17 AM
mec
The best guess I've seen is about a year old and comes to 3,500,000. since then though, several more states have passed legislation and numbers continue to grow in the others.

Matter of fact,its just about impossible to get a real number. Some states aren't even sure how many active licenses they have.

And police marksmanship has improved a great deal over the last couple of decades. More training across the board. Some still can't hit a bull in the butt but a lot of them are getting better.

3,500,000......... Ok so I miss counted a few :D I too would really like to see published numbers in the press and other media, (no I'm not gonna hold my breath) but I do believe if we could come up with a close guess-ta-mation and did a few thousand "letter to the editor" mailings it could have a positive effect.
Anyone want to chime in here with the negatives?

As far as LE goes I agree most don't shoot nearly as many rounds a month as we do and accuracy/competency has to suffer. I will say this in their collective defense, I am seeing more and more new LE faces at the range and as mec mentions, I know that training has improved. After all, kids aren’t shootin cap pistols anymore. Would you want to face some of these kids with the abilities from last decade?

Chipperman
August 20, 2004, 01:37 PM
I've known a lot of license holders that don't carry.

The total number of CCW's issued bears very little relation to the number of guns legally being carried on the street.

outofbattery
August 20, 2004, 03:19 PM
I have no idea what the number of Class A LTC's are in MA but for whatever reason , the permit to own a low capacity ( under 10 rounds ) pistol without having the ability to carry it one's person is still called a Class B License to Carry . If you want to own 10 round + pistols , you need a Class A LTC , if you only own 6 shooters but want to carry then you need a Class A License to Carry Large Capacity Firearms permit . Kinda of :confused: as to what that would do to the numbers . Also , one can be given variations such as a Class A Large Capacity permit without the ability to carry ; ie for target use only .

Sam Adams
August 20, 2004, 05:24 PM
Texas has about 240,000 as of May 2004, per the DPS website.

NYS has a requirement to get a license to own a handgun. Per the NYS Rifle & Pistol Association website:A license to possess a handgun serves also as a license to carry unless restricted. If there are no restrictions written on the license, the licensee is permitted to carry a handgun, loaded or unloaded, concealed, on or about his person. An applicant for a license to carry must be required to show, in addition to the requirement for possession, that "proper cause exists" for the issuance of such a license; for example, for target shooting, hunting, or self-defense. The license can be amended to include one or more additional or different handguns. The licensee is required to carry the license on his person at all times when carrying a handgun. Possession of any "loaded" rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal. A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual. ("Loaded" means loaded in magazine or chamber. A loaded handgun means one for which the person possesses ammunition.)

I don't know where such a license would be restricted, or under what circumstances. We all know that you can only get a carry license in NYC if you run the NY Times or give the mayor big contributions or the like, and I have to believe that the counties around NYC are probably the more restrictive non-NYC counties in the state (they are also the most densely populated). I sincerely doubt that NYS has over 1 million people with carry licenses.

Nationwide, the figure is probably several million, though I doubt it is over 5 million. Still, it would be good to get a rough idea (say within 100,000 or so) of how many carry permits are out there, just to point out to the antis and the blissninny Sucker Moms that you can have a very heavily armed society without thousands of murders per day (of course, we all know of one day when there were thousands of murders, just as we all know that no guns were involved).

Can'thavenuthingood, as to the addresses of those with carry licenses being known, guess what: they ARE known. How can a state issue a license without knowing your identity, a large part of which is where you are located? I don't know about elsewhere, but Texas gives you 30 days after a move to report your new address, or else you could get it pulled - and I suspect that other states (Alaska and Vermont excluded) are exactly the same.

Oh, BTW, because Alaska and Vermont have no requirement to get a carry license, it is unlikely that anyone will ever know how many people carry there...which is as it should be - after all, criminals don't apply for the licenses, so why should we all be more burdened with regulatory requirements, fees and intrusive inquiries into our lives just to do what they do without all of that.

Can'thavenuthingood
August 20, 2004, 06:13 PM
"...as to the addresses of those with carry licenses being known, guess what: they ARE known. How can a state issue a license without knowing your identity, a large part of which is where you are located?"

I was referring to a single large, database encompassing ALL states, counties CCW's. Like one big mailing list. As it is currently structured they would have to spend some time and get it together from individual states. I suspect or hope putting such a list together is illegal for any government entity. Though there is probably someone somewhere smiling as he/she or it reads this.

While many CCW's don't carry all the time it would be interesting to know how many handguns could be fielded at any given time. Then add in the retired LEO's, the Feds, state, counties and cities for a total count.

Fairly large tax base.

Vick

Standing Wolf
August 20, 2004, 09:44 PM
Nowhere near enough.

DigMe
August 21, 2004, 06:22 PM
Texas has about 240,000 as of May 2004, per the DPS website.

I didn't know they'd updated the number. Isn't that down a bit from previous numbers?

brad cook

carpettbaggerr
August 21, 2004, 09:41 PM
NY state permits are issued by your county of residence. You cannot possess a pistol in NY state without a permit. The basic permit is a full carry permit, allowing you to carry concealed everywhere in the state, except in NYC. You must have a permit issued in NYC to carry there. Some counties restrict the permit to hunting or target shooting -- you can still carry a concealed handgun, but only when travelling to and from a range or hunting site.

Most permits are good for life -- only a few require renewal. There is more to NY state than just New York City.

P95Carry
August 21, 2004, 09:46 PM
Got to thinking ... issue of CCW's in my county is good .... even better than good but ....... in my daily observations, one of two factors seems evident...

1] Many who have CCW's do not bother to carry (BAD)

2] Many who have CCW's DO carry, a lot - but make a darned good job of concealment (GOOD).

I am hopefully in that second category!:)

jobu07
August 21, 2004, 10:25 PM
Well said carpetbagger. :)

mec
August 22, 2004, 04:42 PM
" didn't know they'd updated the number. Isn't that down a bit from previous numbers?

brad cook"

Actually its more like 249,800 in May. They used to update every month missing only the occasional month. Havent updated since then but it is the highest recorded number so far. The numbers have gone backwards only once or twice since 96 and then jumped forward again.

Johnson
August 22, 2004, 07:26 PM
I think there's six of 'em in Los Angeles.

Rimmer
August 22, 2004, 09:41 PM
I still would like to find a total someplace. I talked with Packing.org and their site has a few links. Did a search and came up with a few more totals. Emailed about 20 states for their most recent CCW stats.

Interesting that they expect somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 retired LEO will be authorized to carry. Now thats what I call narrowing it down.

I really should be out shootin.......:banghead:

UberPhLuBB
August 23, 2004, 05:30 AM
So something around 17% of the entire population of the US carries a firearm?

~292,000,000 people in the US as of 2003. 3,500,000 concealed handgun licenses/permits as of last year.

That's 16.57% of the population who carry, not factoring in the last 3/4 year in which more people have obtained permits.

I'd love to be optimistic about it, but that honestly seems like too high of a number, considering that the biggest population centers are the strictest about carrying concealed. If I were to have guessed without having those numbers above, I would say more like 7-10%. Does anyone else agree that, even though the numbers say 16.57%, it's probably less?

mec
August 23, 2004, 08:08 AM
I'm not a very good math cruncher but i get more like 1.2% out of that. That would probably be close as Texas has like maybe 2% of the total population legal and states generally run between 2 and 4% licensed. A good chunck of the total number are minors and ineliible and even the convicted felons out number us by about two to one.

We also have an uncounted population numbering in the millions. These are off- the -books emegrees from Mexico. They won't be eligible for licenses until John Kerry grants them all citizenship so that they can vote for the Party.

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