Hesse Model 47: how to fix


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cpileri
August 20, 2004, 10:44 AM
What exactly were/are the Hesse Model 47 version of the ak-47's problems and how can they be fixed?

Ihear they are the only unreliable AK: is it the shape of the receiver? the magazine? something else? can it be fixed?

I hear they are unsafe: true? why? can that be fixed?

It is a stamped receiver: can rivets be placed to make it stronger and more durable?

etc. etc.

I am looking for more specific info than " its pure garbage" or "just sell it" or "don't buy one".

Assume that I am in this scenario: 1. stuck with it, 2. interested in making it work, 3. willing to commit time and $$ to the project.

For specifics, it is a 'pistol ak' like the ones from Urban Armory, except the receiver is a Hesse Model 47. It is a legal pistol and I'd like it to stay that way. Given that, should I look into getting a receiver flat, having it bent, cut, hardened etc and replace mine with it?
Will that fix all the issues or are there other mechanical problems as well?

Thanks in advance!
C-

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1911Tuner
August 20, 2004, 02:51 PM
Howdy cpileri.

I'll let this one lay here for a while and see if ya get any responses on it.
If somebody doesn't answer after a bit, I'll shoot it on over to Rifle Country.

Luck!

Tuner

cpileri
August 20, 2004, 08:31 PM
1911Tuner,
Thanks. It sounded like a gunsmithing topic but who knows where a good answer may be found.
C-

1911Tuner
August 20, 2004, 09:13 PM
Howdy cpileri,

It is a good one for Gunsmithing, but so far it looks like nobody knows the rifle well enough to answer your questions. I'll go ahead and move it. Those guys over in Rifle Country will know the answers for sure. Some pretty sharp rifle folks hang out over there.

Luck!

Tuner

Harry Tuttle
August 20, 2004, 09:47 PM
drunken monkey made AKs can suffer from a bunch of ills

miss aligned sights, poorly assembled trunions, drippy spray paint finishes

whats the issue with this kalashnikov?
will it shoot?
does it jam?
can it keep the rounds inside a pie plate at 50 yards?

Hesse tig welds the rails onto the reciever so there could be alignment issues with the carrier
and issues with attempting to fix any problems

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/hesse47.html

pmbiker
August 20, 2004, 11:55 PM
I've heard of improper heat treating of the ejector also.

Dead
August 21, 2004, 12:28 AM
I think I also heard tthat the recievers could crack or something, due to being soft, or incorrectly heat treated...

cpileri
August 21, 2004, 02:03 AM
Soft/cracking receivers seems to be a very commonly mentioned issue with these:
is it possible to re-heat-treat the receiver?
Maybe add some casenit carbon coating while I am at it? (well, paying someone else to be at it.)

I figure the rails can be removed and re-welded by a guy who knows what he's doing?

Just think of how satisfying this will be when finished....

Thanks again in advance!
C-

Dead
August 21, 2004, 08:29 AM
Or you could get a SAR-1, and not really shoot that hesse one much at all!!

http://www.classicarms.us/htm/firearms.htm

They have them for 270, if you mention the internet special :) (just make sure you get the pistol grip one)

hmm might be time to get some more SAR-1's if they are 265each if I order 3. ;)

Onmilo
August 21, 2004, 10:50 AM
We brought several Hesse rifles into the shop, AK and AR varients.
Every single one of them went back to the manufacturer and we refunded every single customers money.
The problems are wide and varied and that little quality control issue may be the biggest problem with this manufacturer's products.
They just plain don't work.

Coronach
August 21, 2004, 12:42 PM
Take the Hesse with magazine inserted.

Grasp the magazine firmly in the left hand. With the right actuate the mag release.

Remove Hesse rifle. Set aside.

Take a SAR-1 or other AK clone and place it on the magazine and rock it into place.

Your AK will now function properly.

Mike :D :neener:

(Sorry, couldn't resist. I wish I could help more)

Wildalaska
August 21, 2004, 01:19 PM
Sorry they are unfixable at a reasonable price...

WilwehavetriedAlaska

standingbear
August 21, 2004, 03:03 PM
in order for it to be truly reliable and safe...you will need to probably have the entire receiver and rails replaced...re rivit everything and heat treat...re paint or park it all..you can easily buy another gun.Ive had bad experience with everything I have bought that they made.somethings can be fixed if the receiver and barrel is good but this case...I would not bother,its going to get expensive.

Fullmedaljacket8
August 21, 2004, 04:56 PM
repost :scrutiny:

Fullmedaljacket8
August 21, 2004, 04:56 PM
Hesse is possibly the worst gun maker of all time. They have too many problems with them. I would just go with a WASR-10 high cap. They sell around 275-300 and they actually work. Or better yet wait and see what happens after the AWBan expires.

Gun Wielding Maniac
August 21, 2004, 06:26 PM
I'd have to take a look at the rifle in question. I have constructed several AK's on Vulcan receivers... of course, Hesse simply renamed the company to Vulcan a few years ago. Some people DO complain about soft ejectors. The truth is, the Vulcan receivers, which I can only assume are the same as the Hesse receivers, have ejectors that are longer then normal for an AKM. This is because they are also meant to be used in AK-74 rifles (which have to have a longer ejector to operate). The builder was supposed to polish or grind the ejector down to the appropriate length. When you use an AKM bolt carrier and bolt head in an unmodified Vulcan (Hesse) receiver, the natural effect is that the ejector gets beaten to a pulp. You'll first notice signs of this after firing a few rounds. The top of the ejector will have a slightly scalloped appearance. Cure? Take a dremel tool and grind the ejector down to the appropriate length.

The rails on the receiver are supposed to be welded on. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If the rails were welded on incorrectly, the bolt carrier would not reciprocate at all, even by hand. As for strengthening the receiver? We really are working on little information here. When you get your hands on the rifle, look at the following parts:
1. The front trunnion (the part into which the bolt head locks and which serves as the attachment point between the barrel and the receiver). What you are looking for here are signs of welding, improperly mushroomed rivets, or the trunnion being installed in such a way that the rails on the receiver do not match up with the rails on the trunnion.
2. Are the holes for the fire control group pins ovaled or properly circular? If they are ovaled, then the movement of the fire control pins has worn away some metal. This is a sign that the receiver was not heat treated at the important places (the fire control pin holes and the ejector).
3. What type of fire control parts have been installed?

Bear in mind that Hesse built these rifles up on Saiga parts, straight from Russia. These are high quality parts. The only Hesse parts will be the furniture, the fire control parts, and MAYBE the gas piston. Only likely place of real trouble is the receiver and the assembly.

Once you have looked at the above parts, get back with me... It might be your rifle is perfectly good to go as is.

Gun Wielding Maniac
August 21, 2004, 06:36 PM
One last question... have you actually fired this weapon?

cpileri
August 21, 2004, 11:07 PM
Gun Wielding Maniac and other friends,
As of now, the pistol is being shipped to a local FFL. So i have not even seen it yet except in pictures. By report, it is unfired except for factory testing.
I agree, there is a chance it is ready to go as is. I am assured it is so, and would be plenty satisfied for that to be true! I am equally ready to re-live the experiences of others who have had problems with them.
I want to have enough info to make the decision, or send it to someone like Gun Wielding Maniac who can check it out properly, and fix whatever may need fixing.
As far as purchasing another gun, etc etc: the entire coolness factor in this particular variant is that it is legally a pistol. To replace it with a rifle would defeat that. I'll get a separate AK rifle, dont worry.
The other option to consider would be to get a buffed 1.6mm receiver (or the mythical 'perfect' receiver that is supposed to appear on the market soon), and again have someone who knows what they're doing bend it and drill it and treat it. That would keep the receiver a legal pistol.
Gun Wielding maniac, where are you located?

I should have the item Monday or Tuesday, and will give a full report!
C-

BryanP
August 22, 2004, 12:24 PM
Is this what you're getting?

http://www.urban-armory.com/images/kpistoln.jpg

cpileri
August 22, 2004, 12:41 PM
Yup, thats the one.
C-

Gun Wielding Maniac
August 22, 2004, 05:28 PM
Personally, I dont expect there to be any problems with the pistol. Just look at the places mentioned before and have the headspace checked and you'll be good to go.

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