I am looking for a WWII era M1 for its historic value as well as occasional (maybe a couple times a year) plinking. Which version available at CMP would fit the bill? I noticed some are post-WW2. Did our soldiers use the greek/danish models at all? Accuracy is not an issue here, just authenticity, I would like the gun to be 100% as issued. Thanks.
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August 21, 2004, 09:34 AM
The CMP should still have some Springfield Service Grade M1 rifles in serial number ranges that were manufactured in the early years of WWII. This table shows serial numbers by production years for both SA and Winchester:
You might start by contacting the CMP by phone to find out if you can purchase a Garand with a serial number that falls into a serial number range that makes it a WWII-era rifle. Keep in mind that nearly all of the rifles CMP sells are "mix-master" versions; a lot of the components have been replaced at different times with newer or different manufacturer's pieces. For example, a WWII-era Springfield M1 may have an International Harvester op-rod that was post-war. The chances of finding a "100% numbers-matching" sort of rifle would be virtually nil.
The Greek rifles were sent to the Greek government as a loan and it's hard to say if American GI's used them in WWII combat first. The serial number of those rifles would determine the era when the rifle is made and not when it served.
Here's two forums that might be some help for you:
http://www.battlerifles.com./index.php (the M1 Garand section)
In any event, a CMP Garand is a great piece of history to have and the Service Grade rifles are typically in great shape and make great shooters. I have an April 41 Garand and it draws a lot of attention at my range.
August 21, 2004, 10:55 AM
If you want a WWII produced rifle with original barrel and correct parts, it's a better bet to buy from for For Sale board at jouster.com or another collector forum.
You will pay a premium of $300 to $10,000 for a "correct" WWII rifle.
Or, you can buy a CMP Service Grade rifle. Other than the later (and better) rear sight, it will look and function precisely like the WWII rifle.
August 21, 2004, 11:02 AM
You have no control over what you get from the CMP other than picking a rack grade or service grade. Unless you go to the CMP store and pick out your own rifle, you get what you get.
I have never tried to call them and ask for something specific, but I don't this would work. They would be flooded with phone calls and couldn't get any work done.
One note that I usually make when talking about CMP M1s. We see the term, "mixmaster" thrown around a good bit. For those of you that don't have much experience with the M1, keep in mind that it is a rifle that made it's debut in the 1940s. Pretty much every M1 you will find, anywhere, has been used hard and rebuilt numerous times. When the military rebuilt them, they didn't care about matching brands of parts with the brand of the reciever and all that. They wanted to put together a functional rifle for a GI to kill the enemy. This isn't a bad thing and doesn't take anything away from the rifle at all.
August 21, 2004, 04:45 PM
While generally you get what you get from CMP, they are usually quite good about taking general serial number range requests. For instance, I just ordered my first M1 and received it this week. I sent a note with my order requesting if they might be able to send me one with a serial below 3,800,xxx, which is around the last wwii rifles.
I was pleasantly surprised to receive it this week, numbered at 1,155,xxx; manufactured January, 1943; right in the middle of the war. There's no guarantee that you'll get what you ask for, but you certainly won't if you don't ask.
August 21, 2004, 05:28 PM
We see the term, "mixmaster" thrown around a good bit
Funny you should bring that up. My father an I ordered CMP Garands a while back. His is a 1942 Springfield that appears to have not gone through an armory rebuild (uncut op-rod, worn finish) and has all Springfield parts, except for the gas cylinder (Winchester, iirc). Mine is a 1944 Winchester that has gone through rebuild, yet the parts are correct, according to the local M1 guru, for the build year, except for the gas cylinder, which is a Springfield part. It's almost as if they mixmastered just a bit, with each other.
Order through the CMP. The chances are good that you'll get a WWII-era Garand. If you don't, sell or trade it for one that is.
August 21, 2004, 08:59 PM
Ordering a Danish M1 or a Springfield will usually be a WWII rifle, and Winchesters are always WWII era rifles. It's the H&R's and IHC's that were all made after WWII.
August 21, 2004, 10:11 PM
You can get an M1 with a WWII era receiver from the CMP. You can also get an "as issued" M1 from the CMP. You can not get an all correct, original, as manufactured M1 from the CMP....well maybe you could, but these rifles are few and far between and when the CMP finds them they would be sold at auction for much more than the service grade price.
If you want a bona fide all correct WWII rifle your best bet would be to buy from a respected dealer. Scott Duff is one of the best and he has a nice, all correct, late war Springfield Armory (SA) M1 for sale on his site (http://www.scott-duff.com/) right now. Looking at what Duff has will also give you an idea of how much such rifles are going for now.
If an M1 with a WWII era receiver will make you happy then you can order a Winchester from the CMP (one to two year wait). It will have been rebuilt and have parts from different manufacturers and eras, but will be an "as issued" USGI M1. You could try asking for an SA with a WWII era serial number but the CMP really dosen't like such requests; they are more work for them and its not fair to other buyers. The Danish rifles were given to the Danes from stocks leftover from WWII and used by our troops first so, if the Danes are still available, you could take a chance on one of those.
A trip to CMP North to pickout your own is also a good idea.
The Greeks got mostly new post war rifles. I saw crates and crates of the Greek rifles at the CMP just after they arrived and there were very few WWII era rifles in them.
Just for fun here's a pic of the Greeks in the CMP warehouse just after they came in: