Little box of horrors


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Buttons
August 21, 2004, 05:13 PM
We went out to the range a week or so ago with an old marlin 60 and a bulk pack of winchester in .22 lr 500 rounds, these bullets were horrendous. We had more lite strikes than we could keep track of, failures to extract, failures to eject, stove pipes, bad primers, and every other problem you could think of. The bullets were inaccurate, and not even in a consistent pattern it gouped at 25 yards within 5-6 inches, but improved a bit further out. overall we found the wincester bulkpack unworthy of its $5 price tag. We bought a bulk pack of federals 550 rounds for $8 and consider that a much better buy. My friend and I both take a stance against the use of this ammo and suggest that it be avoided. Spring for the extra $3 and save yourselves the trouble of dealing with this little box of horrors! :cuss:
-Buttons

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Jeff White
August 21, 2004, 05:20 PM
Moving to General Gun Discussions........

Jeff

Johnson
August 21, 2004, 05:29 PM
Sounds like the gun to me.

magsnubby
August 21, 2004, 05:35 PM
I'll second that one Johnson.

I've bought several bulk boxes of Winchester .22's and never had a problem with any of them.

saddlebum
August 21, 2004, 05:39 PM
"marlin model 60" explains it all to me. saddlebum

Penforhire
August 21, 2004, 07:01 PM
Sounds like a box of Win Xpert to me. While I had only 2 FTE's out of a box (in my Mk II) I found Xpert to shoot dirty, weak, and noticeably inconsistent. I'll never buy another box of it.

YammyMonkey
August 21, 2004, 07:46 PM
Had a similar experience with the Winchester, I think it was the "Xpert") .22's. Black/grey/red box IIRC. I was lucky to get 7 or 8 fully functioning rounds out of a mag of 10 through my Browning Buckmark. Shot up about 100 of the Federals no problems, then switched to the Winchester and the :banghead: began.

On the up side, I did get to practice a lot of malfunction drills on the ol Buckmark.:p

Dave Markowitz
August 21, 2004, 09:33 PM
If these were the Winchester "XPert .22s", I am not surprised. That stuff is the worst American made factory ammo I've ever seen.

Dave R
August 21, 2004, 09:45 PM
In my Marlin Model 60, the Remington 36gr. Golden Bullet seems to be the best "value priced" .22LR.

I get maybe 2 lite strikes per 550. Often none. Good groups, too.

Many months ago I posted a review in "hunting" forum. Terminal performance on whistle pigs (ground squirrels) was quite satisfactory.

Okiecruffler
August 21, 2004, 10:11 PM
I've got a brick of Xperts on my shelf that I bought about a year ago. Same deal, several wouldn't go off no matter how many times I tried. And this was with several different guns, including 2 mod60's, a 10/22, a nylon66, and a Savage striker. Dynapoints seems to be good stuff, but no more Xperts for me.

mtnbkr
August 21, 2004, 11:42 PM
The only bulk pack 22lr ammo I'll shoot in my guns is Dynapoints. Everything else is trash. In my customized 10/22, I've had fewer than 5 misfires in 750rnds of Dynapoints.

Chris

Buttons
August 22, 2004, 01:16 AM
Sorry I forgot to mention the fact that they were Xperts, hope there wasn't too much confusion. We fired federal, CCIs, mini mags, and velocitors, they all cycled tons better. im pretty sure its the ammo, the bullets came out of the box misshapen and bent, buy a box and look at them if you really like the stuff after that please tell me what to do in order to make cycling them more succesful its a very good deal for 500 rounds a penny a shot:D

SDC
August 22, 2004, 01:24 AM
Step number one is to clean the rifle thoroughly; 90% of the problems you describe could be fixed up with a good cleaning.

ENC
August 22, 2004, 05:34 AM
I've shot a couple of boxes and while dirtier than most it has worked well for me.

Buttons
August 22, 2004, 12:38 PM
Well for one I know it is not due to the lack of cleaning. we clean our rifles after every time we shoot, and once a week if we don't.

Yowza
August 22, 2004, 12:47 PM
I tried some of that Winchester X-pert stuff a while back and as I recall it was horrible in my Ruger 22/45. Some of it wouldn't even fire in my brother's CZ 452. If you still think it's the gun, then I don't know what to tell you.

Rick

sm
August 22, 2004, 01:12 PM
General Rule for awhile now has been the Xpert is terrible stuff as others have already stated.

IME - the Winchester X22LR is the one - accross the board - in any gun, action type or platform , and accuracy - though it depends works the best "overall" [ meaning if you don't know the gun , grab these]. The CCI equivilent does the same.

Win PowerPoint is the .40 gr eq of the X22lr, Dynapoints and T 22 work. The CCI equiv do the same . Winchester is more readlily avail for me.

Remington has a ammo plant about an hour from me as the crow flies. I've never had good luck with any Remington ammo - except target loads for shotguns. Remington does not make their rimfire ammo btw - I have had terrible results with any type of Rem Rimfire.

The Fed # 550 bulk pack - is probably the best bulk loading out there.

The Marlin 60 - I like. I don't have problems with them, find them to be more accurate than the 10/22. My gun buddy has tweaked triggers and such ...not near as much work ,time or trouble ....runs circles around the 10/22 all tricked and $1k invested in.

I like to use the bone stock ones, I tune in the iron sights and jsut shoot the darn thing. I cleaned the factory lube and stuff , ran a patch down the bore. I then treated the bore with RIG - as I have always done. I have never cleaned the bbl since. I do use a pipe cleaner or q tip for the chamber - if I think about it. I use a pipe cleaner on extraction and stuff , I may even remember to put a drop or two of Keenbore Formula 3 oil ....other than that- I just shoot the darn thing with the same ammo it has always had. Still running, still hitting what aimed at - I have no idea how many rds. We have run 2 bricks in a day through it ....kids wanted to shoot - we let them.

A customer brought in 3 Marlin 60s in for their ANNUAL cleaning , his and the two boys. They purchase by the cases the X22lr and the PP .

I understand saving money to shoot. I don't understand why folks spend money on a nice gun - and use inferior ammo. Be it a $99 MOdel 60 or $4k tricked out race gun. Once one finds the load that runs and shoots the best for task, buy as much as can of that lot if possible. Once I find a load - I never shop around, try another loading, or make a decison based on price.

I pay the monies for the X22lr , the gun also happens to like the Fed #550 ....if it didn't I wouldn't buy it ...I'd buy less ammo quanity for more ammo quality. Just me of course.

KaceCoyote
August 22, 2004, 01:56 PM
Alright holdon...

The marlin 60 had -2- light strikes through the entire box. The issue wasnt light strikes they were bad, horrible stupid primers. Worse yet, The rounds that wouldnt go off would stay stuck in there so hardcore I'd have to take the rifle down completely to remove the round. I would turn them(when I could) and nogo. The strikes were just fine. The issue at hand was the bad primers. It got -so- bad at one point me and buttons were just loading singles into the 60 because every other round would jam anyway. it was the most horrific .22 I've ever fired. The normal Win grey box works fine for the 60, cycles -flawlessly- This crap? No good. The bulk pack of Federal now works great sofar, no issues and it seems to be more accurate ontop of that.

grislyatoms
August 22, 2004, 07:04 PM
Winchester Xpert = sort through the box and eliminate all the ones that have dented cases and crooked bullets. Shoot 3 rounds and then go find a cleaning rod to knock stuck case out of chamber. Shoot 17 more rounds and have 2 or 3 misfires.

Leave box on the shelf to gather dust.

Not even worth the box they come in.

rust collector
August 22, 2004, 08:54 PM
I appreciate your trying to save me the time and frustration you experienced when you ended up with a rotten load. I have heard other complaints about this stuff and believe me, none of it will ever see my ammo closet. It's this kind of information that makes this community so great.

I'm sorry you ended up getting accused of poor rifle selection and poor cleaning habits. Generally, I think folks here try to be helpful but once in awhile our diagnostics aren't based upon enough information, or relate only to our limited information.

I do hope you feed back to the manufacturer and retailer of this inferior product, so they can recall nonfunctional lots and understand the potential liability that attaches to non-spec ammo. Politely, of course, so you're more likely to be listened to.

Mulliga
August 23, 2004, 01:44 AM
marlin model 60" explains it all to me

My 795SS is just as reliable as any 10/22, cheaper, and more accurate. :)

KaceCoyote
August 23, 2004, 04:02 AM
Its -my- Marlin 60 he's firing so lets talk cleaning....

Every trip, all my rifles get cleaned.

The Marlin ONLY jams with the Winchester box, Not with Federal, not with CCI. It cycles both of these absolutely flawlessly. Since I've had the rifle I've fired atleast a thousand rounds, she's had maybe...10 light strikes, all of which fire with just another rack've the bolt. From the 'feel-o-meter' I think most of these light strikes may be caused by a weak round preceeding it. Said marlin also pops 12 guage shells routinely at 50 yards and is an absolute terror to Clays out to 100 yards(set down, not thrown). I've had maybe, 5 jams the entire time which I'll admit was the rifle. 5 stovepipes, 5 jams cleared with just another rack've the bolt and a shake of the receiver.

Dont bash the 60. Mines far from new to boot, from the years before serial numbers and such rubbish on the lowly .22LR. Resurected from atleast 15 years sitting in a tool shed to shoot aswell as it does today is a testimonial to just how accurate it is. Now if it just had a bolt hold open, and it was mag fed I'd call it -the- perfect .22.

sm
August 23, 2004, 04:37 AM
I like the Marlin 60. I like the fact it does NOT take a mag - one less something to keep up with , and one less something to affect reliability .

The almost perfect 22lr ? IN Semi's- Marlin 60 ADD The Nylon 66, the one with the tube feed through the stock - again no mags. Light, accurate, self lubing.

For a classic wood stock - The Browning Automatic . Next up the Rem Speedmaster.

I have my druthers in Lever Guns - The Browning
Bolt - the Win 52 ,The CZ is a nicemodern one.
Pump - brain fade on the Rem name ...Fieldmaster? I think .

Okiecruffler
August 23, 2004, 06:27 AM
But I have mod60's and a nylon66, and while I love the nylon66, I've never been able to shoot it well. Danged thing is just too light. My son, who actually owes the nylon66 doesn't seem to have this problem.

And SM, I can't believe you'd take a Browning lever over a Marlin 39:rolleyes: , take all kinds I guess.

To be fair to the Winchester Xperts, I also have a brick of American Eagle sitting next to it that did the same thing, and I even had a 50 box of my favorite Aguila Subsonic that had 15 FTF's. I think sometimes with rimfires, you just get a batch with bad primers. They weren't spun right or something. I still won't buy Xperts or American Eagle again, bu tI don't so much blame the company, things happen.

Kamicosmos
August 23, 2004, 12:05 PM
I'll also support the '22 Bulk Ammo is Crap' campaign. My Marlin Mod 60 just hated some Remmington bulk I had a while back. I eventually threw out the box, which still had probably 350 rounds in it. Same problems with ammo being dented and light striking. I could twist the bullets around in the case, and even had a few where the bullet just fell out of the case!!

I was given a box of the Winchester Xpert stuff, and almost threw it away with out even trying it. Ironically, the Marlin ate most of it with out problems. Granted, I sorted through the box to elimate the dented cases, loose bullets etc. Tossed maybe a third of the rounds!! My Ruger Mark II absolutely refused to work with it, so the Marlin got to suffer with it.

For what it's worth, I only buy Winchester Super X High Vels for both guns.

thumbtack
August 23, 2004, 12:14 PM
I had a very similiar problem with the Winchester Xpert about 2 years ago. I tried them in my 10/22, Ruger Mark 1, Remington 597, and my Remington 241. and in all of the guns there were problems after problems.

yci
August 23, 2004, 04:26 PM
I had major feeding problems when trying to run the Xpert through my 10/22 and Ruger MK II. I'd taken a box of those, some Remington, and some Federals out to see which ones performed better. After the issues with the Xpert I gave up very quickly on them.

After I got home from the range, I put one of each brand of cartridge next to each other and actually found the Xpert to have a shorter OAL length than the Federal and Remington. After checking multiple times that all three were indeed 22LR, I gave the box to a friend who is an instructor and haven't bought any more of them since.

mtnbkr
August 23, 2004, 04:48 PM
I'll also support the '22 Bulk Ammo is Crap'

Give Dynapoints a try. They're $10/500 at Wal-Mart. My modified 10/22 (has a tighter chamber than a factory semiauto) will hold 1/2" with them. I shot over 200rnds at my last range session and didn't have a single jam, misfeed, fte, or misfire. 200rnds of Dynapoints generated less crud than 100rnds of the cheaper stuff.

Chris

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