[ken grant]

Purchased a Norinco 1911A1 Compact this week. Tried it out today at the range.Had 3 FTE's------all last round in the mag.All FTE's in different mags.

Carried 10 loaded mags. with me. All Hi-Standard 7 Rds.-flat follower with dimple. All follower angles set as per Hallock's book.

All with 11# Wolf springs.
The FTE's all wound up with the empty back almost all the way in the mag with the base under the feed lips and the slide did lock back. Was hard to remove mag. because part of the case was sticking out the front and I had to go in from the top of the port and push it out.
Got home and stripped pistol to clean and to check it out and found nothing wrong that I could see. Even checked tension on extractor and it seemed to be O.K.

ANY Suggestions? How about it TUNER? FUFF? DAVE?

[Jim K]

The only way an empty case can get in the magazine is if it drops down as it is being extracted. And the only way it can drop is if the extractor is not holding it. Last I knew, Norinco was still using spring steel extractors, so yours might just need a little tuning.

How old is the gun? (Norinco's have not been imported into the U.S. since the early 90's, so that gun may have been used a bit.)

Of course with rounds in the magazine, the case cannot drop down far enough to jam and will eject normally. My two cents.

Jim

[ken grant]

The Norinco was used. I fired 70 rds. in it[10 different mags.] and had 3 FTE's. The rest did O.K.----Extractor tension seems O.K. as well{checked it when I got home] It seems to meet all guidelines for extractor tension

[Jim K]

Well, I don't know all there is to know about guidelines, or even about extractors, but I think I would try tuning that one and see what happens.

With the magazine out, can you load a dummy round, retract the slide and have the round eject every time? Or does it fall through the magazine well? A few tests should tell.

Jim

[ken grant]

JIM, I agree with you that the extractor had to drop the case, but I think the tension is tight enough but will try a little more and test tomorrow.
I have 11# springs in the mags. and it takes a lot to put a case under the feed lips. What can push the empty case back into the mag. even if the extractor drops it ?
THANKS
Ken
P.S.---the springs are new ones

[1911Tuner]

Howdy ken,

Your extractor is clocking. It will do what you describe even when the tension is good. Bet you've had that last round fail to lock the slide and crunch the case between the slide and barrel hood too...right?

An oversized firing pin stop, fitted to the extractor as installed in the slide will probably cure it...but if the extractor channel is mislocated too far to the right, it may not.

Gotta go meet a couple of THR members for a shoot early this fine day. I'll
get back to this one later on.

[stans]

I agree, an extractor can have sufficient tension when properly positioned, but if the extractor can rotate, then the tension is pretty much lost and the case rim will fall from the extractor.

[ken grant]

Tuner, I did not crunch any cases, all 3 FTE's put the empty case back into the mag.
How can you tell if the extractor is clocking? mine seems rather tight and I can't turn it while it's in place. I used neddle-nosed and tried to turn it and it didn't move.:confused:

[Jammer Six]

Just for clarification for those of us with skulls that stack towards the thick end of the specs, "clocking" sounds like it means the extractor is rotating in its channel, right? :eek:

[gyp_c2]

...and yes...

How short is the slide and what weight is the recoil spring?

[ken grant]

4.75 slide------stock spring

[ken grant]

SORRY-----4.25 slide

[1911Tuner]

Hiwdy Ken,

Sometimes when an extractor clocks...or rotates...it will straighten itself up when the case ejects, and it's hard to catch. best way that I know to see is to let a round chamber from the mag at full speed and extract/eject it
slowly. Repeat 4-5 times and see if the flat side of the butt end is still perpendicular. It doesn't take a lot of rotation to let the case drop far enough to get stuffed back in the magazine the way you describe.

Another thing to check for is to see if the flat side of the extractor is flush with the slide. If it's to the right of flush, the firing pin stop isn't he.lping to keep it straight in the bore, and can allow it to clock, even with good tension.

The lack of a bevel on the leading edge of the hook causes the rim to bear on it hard as the round slips under the hook, and will sometimes rotate the extractor. A bevel creates a camming surface that springs the hook to the right more gradually, and helps to prevent clocking. Look at the extractor through the underside of the slide to see if you see a squared edge or a beveled edge.

Standin' by...

[ken grant]

The extractor is clocking---don't have an oversized stop---will try to peen both edges to widen the stop.

TUNER----I saw one of your posts where you used J-B WELD in the extractor---- Will that work?

[Dave Sample]

I use the barrel, the lower end, and the slide when I tweak a Norinco. That is all I use. These are very nice parts and I replace EVERYTHING else. That includes the ejector, firing pin stop, firing pin, extractor, etc. I would suggest fitting a new extractor and firing pin stop if you want to do the minimum here. I like the timing I get with an extended ejector but that involves a little more work that you may not want to do. I always replaced the magazine with CMC's and their feed lips are not the old stlye hardball feed lips. You may be able to just do an over sized FPS.

[ken grant]

I am willing to purchase your throw-away Norinco parts[mostly extractors] but will take all parts you are willing to sell.
Maybe I can trade them to TUNER for TUNERIZING a couple of my 1911's.
He said on one of his posts that he would work for ammo,maybe he might work for parts.:D

[Dave Sample]

I am too fond of my pal Tuner to put him to the trouble of having to Rockwell all of this big sack of parts. They are not for sale. I will give them away at some point in time, but some of these parts can fix poor guys guns cheap. I will take a picture of them for you someday so you will know that they are for real. One of my little quirks when tweaking factory guns was that I never returned the old parts I replaced. This was part of my fee and these parts came in handy for cheap and dirty repairs for my pals who were broke at the time. I also did not want people putting them back in guns after I had changed the the insides with new parts. I always had to CYA and this is part of that. Gun Guys are really weird sometimes and I was very lucky that I never had any trouble with what I built.

[ken grant]

GOOD FOR YOU FOR LOOKING OUT FOR POOR GUYS----they should be very thankful---not many working stiffs or retired people[like me-RETIRED] can afford a first-class gunsmith or a custom pistol

[1911Tuner]

Aww...I LIKE usin' the Rockwell thingie. It keeps me busy and provides me with a lotta stuff for a database to compare stuff with other stuff...Like
my factory recoil spring data. Still tryin' to find a Colt Commander with an 18-pound spring...:D

[Dave Sample]

Hey Tuner. I have one on my hip as we speak. I have another one in the shop in GEN C E LEMAY 45. Walter Wollf sells them to me ,but it is a secret, so don't tell anyone.

[1911Tuner]

Okay Cap'n...Since we're still not on the same page, I'll amend that statement to:

I've yet to find a NEW COLT COMMANDER that has an 18-pound recoil spring as it was originally equipped by COLT. I have found very few NEW COLT GOVERNMENT MODELS that came from COLT with a 16-pound recoil spring as ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT. MOST COLT GM recoil springs test in the 14.5 to 15 pound range. MOST COLT COMMANDERS' ORIGINAL recoil springs test in the 15 to 16 pound range...when the guns are new in the box...before anybody has shot them or racked the slide very many times.
Moreover....It would appear that Springfield is following suit of late.

Now then...Cheers!

[Dave Sample]

"I'm never going to smoke weed with Willie again................................." and I am never going to discuss 1911 Springs with Tuner again! But then again...........................................................let me count the coils......................................................................................1,2,3,4,5,6,7,....................................................................

[Jammer Six]

I have one on my hip as we speak.

You have a rockwell thingie on your hip? :D

[ken grant]

Tuner hit it head on----I put punch marks in the extractor channel as close to the depth of the stop as possible[right side] and peened both sides on the stop.
That fixed it for about 100rds. but then it started clocking again and this time I am crunching cases.

[1911Tuner]

ROFL Cap'n...Didn't mean to sound like I was crawlin' on your back...It's just that we've been into this spring thingie before, and I wanted to clarify that the springs that I've checked were all OEM springs. Of course...you,
me...anybody with a Brownells catalog can install about anything from 8 pounds up to 26...

Ya really gotta get past this Springus Envy. My spring's got more coils than yours. So what?...It doesn't mean that you can't find a nice gun that will like your spring just like it is.:D
__________________

Ken buddy! Don't put any more punch marks on your slide...:uhoh: :D

Wonder who makes good leather for a Rockwell machine...:scrutiny:

[Dave Sample]

Is they made out of IRON, those Rockwell Thingy Testy Denters? Do it shoot? Is it too heavy for an Old Man like me or Old Fluffer. Can I replace my LW Commander with it? Eager old minds want to know, Tuner!

[1911Tuner]

Ken said:

That fixed it for about 100rds. but then it started clocking again and this time I am crunching cases.

Yup..That's why they call it an Expedient Field Repair....

Translation: Somethin' that ya do quick-like to get it runnin' until ya can take the time to fix it, or get it fixed, because it probably ain't gonna last.

Usin' a punch to tighten up the firing pin stop and keep it in place is an
example of an EFR that'll last a long time, if not for the life of the gun...
but it won't keep the extractor squared up for more than just a while.

Dave...:rolleyes: :D Behave yo' bad self!

[Dave Sample]

OK