"Patriot Games"


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CMichael
February 19, 2003, 02:54 PM
I am reading this Clancy book.

I am surprised by the gun knowledge in the book.

Jack Ryan is being targetd by Irish terrorists. He is being advised By Sergeant Major Breckenridge. He tells him to get a shotgun for home defense and helps him train with a 9 mm for CCW.

He even talks about the Weaver technique. I thought that was pretty good.

The only thing is if terrorists are trying to kill him I would image that they most likely would use a bomb or a long range shot from a rifle.

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Baba Louie
February 19, 2003, 02:58 PM
A good yarn.

But if they used a bomb or long range rifle, how could you develop the climactic ending?

If you like PG wait till you read Without Remorse.

Adios

Dannyboy
February 19, 2003, 03:24 PM
If you like PG wait till you read Without Remorse.

Not including Red Storm Rising , Patriot Games was my favorite Clancy book...until Without Remorse.

cslinger
February 19, 2003, 03:28 PM
Patiot Games was Ok but my favorite by far is Without Remorse. Spectacular book one of my favorite books period.

Red Storm Rising was also excellent. I also liked Rainbow Six.

Chris

CMichael
February 19, 2003, 03:34 PM
LOL Good point Baba.

Red Storm Rising was my favorite.

I started reading the Sum Of All Fears but I got bored in the beginning and didn't continue.

CMichael
February 19, 2003, 03:35 PM
And of course the Hunt For Red October was pretty good too.

Preacherman
February 19, 2003, 05:30 PM
I loved Clancy's books, up to and including "The Cardinal Of The Kremlin". After that, something changed... much messier/more evil/more in-your-face, violence that was almost pornographic in its sadism and blood-and-guts depiction, if you know what I mean. I'm afraid I stopped reading his books after that...

TheFrontRange
February 19, 2003, 05:34 PM
I think I've read just about all of Clancy's novels. I thought "Rainbow Six" was great, and have subsequently gotten hooked on the PC-game version of "Rainbow Six - Covert Ops Essentials"...lots of good firearms detail there.

Funny thing...I was reading "Rainbow Six" over my lunch hours back in 2001. I was pretty near the end of the book when
11 September rolled around...suddenly Clancy's wild plots didn't seem nearly so spectacular or far-fetched.

blades67
February 19, 2003, 05:42 PM
I read Red Storm Rising while serving with the 1st BN/7th INF, 3rd ID. I'm sure somebody showed him the battle plans for defending the Fulda Gap before he wrote the book because he had most of it correct.

DonP
February 19, 2003, 06:18 PM
If I recall correctly, WR has a very detailed section on "Clark" building his own suppressor in his home machine shop for his raid to get even.

My memory is pretty shabby but I do remember thinking that, it sounded pretty complete but with out the final details to put Clancy in deep Ka-Ka with the BATF folks.

Don P.

othermarc
February 19, 2003, 06:37 PM
Sum of all Fears details a modern nuke... assuming you have nuke material and millions of dollars to buy the equipment... and trained personnel on how to use said equipment. Then again, I'm not a nuke engineer, so maybe Clancy was all wrong.

Without Remorse was my favorite. Sneaking around in complete stealth. Maybe that's why I like Splinter Cell on Xbox.

Clear and Present Danger had many firearms details as well.

Jeeper
February 19, 2003, 07:27 PM
Without remorse is one of my all time favorites. The way that he goes after those people is great. Clark is a bad ***....I mean Kelly

Gordon
February 19, 2003, 07:39 PM
Did you notice in the movie version of the Sum of all Fears the terrorists were Russian not Muslim? what a PC sellout , how unreal!

nygunguy
February 19, 2003, 07:50 PM
I'm a Clancy nut.

If you haven't read any Clancey read Without Remorse first. Mr Clark (Kelly) actually is being chased by Jack Ryan's father.

I enjoyed Executive Order. Sometimes I think we need to start over just like Clancy did in that book. Read Debt of Honor first because it sets up EO.

My favorite has to be Red Storm Rising.

Skunkabilly
February 19, 2003, 08:44 PM
You guys should also check out Stephen Coonts. Coonts is a rifle shooter and his characters perform tactically correct chamber checks.

dude
February 19, 2003, 08:45 PM
The books are great with my favorite being The Cardinal of the Kremlin................too bad the Clancy movies all suck so bad.


'cept for Red October of course!!


I'd rather read a good spy book than see a spy movie anyways.




IMHO the only movies I've seen that were as good as the books they came from were the Silence of the Lambs and it's follow up. And I assume it's pre-quel Red Dragon ( that I think is upcomming out soon??) will also be quite good.

benEzra
February 20, 2003, 12:03 AM
Sum of all Fears details a modern nuke... assuming you have nuke material and millions of dollars to buy the equipment... and trained personnel on how to use said equipment. Then again, I'm not a nuke engineer, so maybe Clancy was all wrong.
Clancy deliberately gave some of the details completely wrong, for just that reason. Probably overkill--thermonuclear weapons are conceptually extremly simple but require an amazing degree of skill and precision to actually manufacture. Simple fission bombs can be relatively crude (if the calculations are done right), but fusion bombs are notoriously difficult to get right. We had our share of fizzles during the nuclear testing era.

I would say that no other device created by man involves such extreme physics. For example, the force compressing the secondary (fusion stage) in a W-80 is 500 million tons per square inch, accelerating the tamper from 0 to 1 million mph within just a few inches.

Getting the secondary to implode symmetrically before your bomb tears itself apart is probably as much a fine art as a science.

bE

10-Ring
February 20, 2003, 12:22 AM
I became a Clancy fan last year. I read Rainbow Six while on jury duty. Since then, I've read Sum of all Fears and I'm currently working on Without Remorse.
How are the other books...the ones inspired by him but written by someone else?

DadOfThree
February 20, 2003, 12:45 AM
I'm a huge Clancy fan. Prior to publishing Red Storm Rising, he had to submit all of his research to the Feds. He got so much of it right on, including some new tactics, that the Feds thought he had access to classified info. He is also the only civilian I know of that was invited to speak at the National Security Agency concerning intel gathering. I have never been able to get into the books inspired by Clancy but not written by him. The characters never seemed real believable to me. I also didn't care much for his last two books. The story lines didn't seem up to par with his other writings so he just added a lot of profanity and sex to make up for it. It didn't.

Skunkabilly
February 20, 2003, 12:55 AM
10-ring the last two: Bear and the Dragon (don't get me started on the Japanese sausage bit...:fire:) and Red Rabbit were disappointingly lacking.

They are all good through Rainbow Six.

The first two or three Marcinko books are also good. All the Coonts books are excellent except the two Intruder ones which made him famous.

hops
February 20, 2003, 01:47 PM
'Without Remorse' is very dark. John T. Kelly is one bad dude. Kelly, who with the help of a few admirals became Mr. Clark, violates a few laws in that book.

I'll second Preachman's observation, although it does no bother me too much.

9mmepiphany
February 20, 2003, 03:03 PM
i must be one of the few folks who liked bear and the dragon...it just rang very real for me. of course i really liked sum of all fears too and many folks find it slow...i really liked the twists in the plot

priv8ter
February 20, 2003, 03:11 PM
10-ring...I assume you mean the Op Center books...the ones inspired by Clancy, and written by a Ghost on his outline. If that's what you mean...about as good as you would expect, which is not so good, in my opinion. You would think I would have learned...

After Alistair MacLean died, several other books were written in his name, based on story ideas he had...six of them I think. I bet he was rolling over in his grave.

TheLastBoyScout
February 20, 2003, 06:40 PM
Read 'em all except for Cardinal and the Kremlin, and Red Rabbit, starting in the 5th or 6th grade (that must have looked weird lol). Out of them all, my favorites are Executive Orders and Without Remorse.
I haven't read the 2 I mentioned earlier because I prefer straight combat, or close to it, to spy stories (I also disagree with whoever talked about The Intruders earlier for that reason, but to each his own).
Rainbow Six and Red Storm Rising were great stories, but I would've liked em more if R6 had included Jack Ryan and if Red Storm had been set in the same universe as the rest of the books.

Dannyboy
February 20, 2003, 08:47 PM
All you guys who liked Red Storm Rising should read Larry Bond's stuff. He collaborated with Clancy on RSR. Vortex and Red Phoenix were incredible.

Detritus
February 20, 2003, 09:58 PM
so far of all of coonts books the "intruder" books are the only one's i could get through. of course i'm also a big fan of Dale Brown (skipped "TinMan" though, when you start out writing aviation techno thrillers, STAY AWAY from "revenge of the cop's brother" type stories) the reason Coonts struck so close to home for many with the intruder books is he LIVED parts of them.

benEzra
February 20, 2003, 10:38 PM
All you guys who liked Red Storm Rising should read Larry Bond's stuff. He collaborated with Clancy on RSR. Vortex and Red Phoenix were incredible.
I read Red Phoenix for the first time a few months ago (picked it up for 50 cents at a yard sale). I'll never look at a map of the Koreas the same again. VERY convincing.

bE

Dannyboy
February 21, 2003, 06:33 PM
I'll never look at a map of the Koreas the same again. VERY convincing.

I know what you mean. I read Red Phoenix for the 1st time years ago but made the mistake of reading it again for the 4th or 5th time while I was stationed in Korea. It wasn't until after I finished it that it kind of hit me. It was a weird feeling.

Cougar
February 22, 2003, 03:18 AM
I've read all of the books in the Clancy 'Jack Ryan' series. The whole reason I like this series is that much of the character development is carried from one book to the next in a chronological order. The Kelly/Clark character...Oso...Chaves...Mancuso...Robbie...Ryan himself... The books follow these guys as they go on through life and how they continually bump into one another. I try to read the whole series - in order - every winter, rather than gluing myself to the Tube.

The hatchet job that Hollyweird has done to the books it has already turned into films is really some of Clancy's doing. From what I have heard, he had signed away the movie rights to any existing and all future books in the series years ago, and now regrets ever doing so. Hollywood has butchered the books, changing the entire story in the one screenplay (like the major plot change as in Sum of All Fears) and killed off one of the main storyline characters (Dan Murray is killed off in the movie version of Clear and Present Danger) that will play a very important part in a later book (as FBI Director in Patriot Games especially). I really don't expect Clancy to continue writing any more books in this series for this reason. The movies are OK, I guess, for pure entertainment value when viewed individually, but lack the continuity from one to the next if taken as a whole. If I hadn't already read all of the books I would say that all of the movies were good. But after reading the books first, they're just o.k.. I suppose there is only so much development you can make in a two hour movie that is better explained in a 700 page book.

goalie35
February 22, 2003, 09:12 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned Clear and Present Danger . I loved that book, and was outraged (but not surprised) to see the in-country soldiers get cut off just to save some politico a$$. Without Remorse had me all the way--who couldn't understand Kelly/Clark's reaction to losing a love to the narcotraffickers? Given his, uh, skills, the method makes sense.

That said, the one that scared me the most was The Sum of All Fears. I can easily believe some well-funded terror organization (Al-Queda is supposed to have megabucks) could lay hold of loose nukes, get one into the country, and trigger a full-scale nuclear exchange. Maybe I have too vivid an imagination, but it seems possible (however unlikely).

sasnofear
February 22, 2003, 11:57 AM
it was good, but unlikly that the IRA would go after a 'hard' instead of a 'soft' target. but it made 4 good movie watching so why not!

12.7x99mm
February 23, 2003, 06:11 AM
Ive been thinking about this lately

Lets say Clansy makes a movie of "With out Remorse"

Who would play Mr. Clark?

I like whats is face in Clear and present Danger in other rolls. (William DeFoe)

But he is not Mr. Clark in anyway.

And the guy in last one was ok. There has to be someone better.

Dave R
February 23, 2003, 12:24 PM
I'm surprised _Debt of Honor_ is not on more favorites lists. I agree that Red Storm Rising is the best of the bunch, but Debt of Honor is my choice as a strong 2nd. Excellent description of how a next-generation, limited war could be fought.

I hope those in charge of the upcoming Iraq engagement borrow some of those ideas...

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