What would it take for you to sell some of your guns?


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chaim
August 23, 2004, 02:45 AM
I am curious about when some of us would consider selling guns.

I know many here say never sell, you'll regret it, and I'm not talking about selling to buy something else here. I'll actually be laying out some specific situations and I want to know what you think about those. Please try to answer for each one.

Would you sell a gun (or guns) in any of the following scenarios:

-To help finance a downpayment on a house? You've found the house of your dreams, you are short on your downpayment. Selling your (fill in the blank) will get you to where you need to be, and you can always buy another later, but your dreamhouse will be sold later. Do you sell a gun or guns?

-A lesser, but related situation to above. You are starting to think about house shopping but haven't yet found a house (you've just starting thinking about it so you haven't started seriously looking yet). With everything else going on right now you can't quite do a downpayment. If you sell some guns you may be able to. Would you sell?

-To help finance an engagement ring? Lets assume you belong to a rather traditional culture or religion so getting engaged now and buying the ring later isn't an option. You've met the girl of your dreams. Would you sell a gun or guns to let you propose months earlier? This lets you marry earlier and the guns can always be replaced. I guess so women can answer this too, you've met the guy of your dreams, do you sell guns to help finance the wedding?

-To help finance a car? Your car just died, or your financee (or hopefully soon-to-be financee) is driving a death-trap and you want him/her out of it ASAP. Assume you are extended on credit and you are unwilling to take on more debt (such as in a case where you have a lot of student loans and/or you just bought yourself a new car, and lets say you are considering shopping for a mortgage and taking on new credit is a bad idea) so a car loan is out of the question. Do you sell guns to finance/help finance the car, or do you let the girl/guy of your dreams continue to drive a death-trap and risk everything (say you just witnessed a terrible accident where if the driver survives she will probably never walk again so this is a concern in your mind)?

-For those where none of these alone is enough, what if all happen all at once?

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chaim
August 23, 2004, 02:51 AM
Oh, to come clean-

-I am considering saving for a house. In my current financial situation I should be able to save enough for a downpayment within about a year (assuming I can stand staying with my parents for another year even though I don't necessarily need to anymore). The house question is just curiousity.

-I am not engaged, or almost so, but I have been dating a nice young woman for a little while and she may just be the girl of my dreams. I am actually thinking about selling about half my guns so I can buy her a proper ring within a couple months and still save for the house downpayment.

-I recently bought a brand new car (when mine was about to die- it died a month later) and so I have a new car loan. I have a lot of student loans. I want to buy a house within a year or so. Thus I can't take a car loan. The above mentioned girl of my dreams drives a death-trap and I did just witness a major accident where if the one driver lives she may never walk again so this is on my mind (an accident of this type in the car my girlfriend drives would almost definately kill her). I may sell some guns to help finance a car when/if we get engaged, especially since I'm already saving for the two situations mentioned above. Of course, an other option for this one is to give her my midsized car after the engagement and to drive the death-trap myself (though that still leaves selling guns for the ring, and I'm not sure I want to be driving a Chevy/Geo Metro sized car either).

444
August 23, 2004, 03:01 AM
Everyone's situation is different. Everyone has different priorities.But, you asked for opinions. None are right or wrong since we are all different.

#1) Downpayment on a house.
No, I wouldn't sell any guns. I would work more hours. If I was in this situation, I would probably BUY guns because I know I would have less discretionary income after buying a new house.
#2) Engagement Ring.
No, I would wait until I could afford it without. If I met a woman I wanted to marry today and couldn't afford a ring today, I would realize that I have gotten along fine for many years without her and a little more time isn't going to matter. If she isn't willing to wait for that to happen, I am better off without her. I also don't want to EVER establish a precident with a woman that we can generate cash by liquidating my assets.
#3) Car.
No. I can buy a new car with no money down. When I lived in the city, I went for YEARS after my divorce without a car. I rode the bus, I walked to work, I dated women that had a car, I got rides from friends if I had to, I had stuff delivered, I rode my bicycle.
I don't buy other people cars. I have done it in the past and it just made me bitter. If someone NEEDS a car, and someone WANTS a car then they NEED to get a job and buy their own.

I know I am getting old. My ideas about things are far different than they were even 10 years ago. I have become much more patient than I was in my younger days. I look at everything you mention and realize that I can do without them. If they all happened at once, I would tell myself that my plans have changed. I can't have everything I want right now, I have to make a list of priorities and work my way through the list. I have to work to make the money and that takes time and effort: but with time and effort it will come. There is nothing I see on your list that I would consider an absolute nessessity that I can't go on living without. They are things that are best earned through time and hard work. I am no longer an impulse buyer.

chaim
August 23, 2004, 03:28 AM
444, valid/good answer, especially since you have your own experiences and your own situation.

As for me, and how mine fits yours:

#1) Downpayment on a house.
No, I wouldn't sell any guns. I would work more hours. If I was in this situation, I would probably BUY guns because I know I would have less discretionary income after buying a new house. Very valid. I do realize that once I buy a house I probably won't be buying guns until my next raise (whenever that is) and maybe if I get an end of year bonus (assuming I won't need that money for something with the house). I do figure that if I can stand staying with my parents another year (assuming I'm not married before then) I can save a downpayment without selling anything (that is, without the next two situations). As for working more hours, I work for the state so I don't get paid overtime (though it isn't too bad, I get compensory time off so I essentially get more vacation time later for my extra work hours now).




#2) Engagement Ring.
No, I would wait until I could afford it without. If I met a woman I wanted to marry today and couldn't afford a ring today, I would realize that I have gotten along fine for many years without her and a little more time isn't going to matter. If she isn't willing to wait for that to happen, I am better off without her. You have more patience than I (not that this is difficult to achieve :D ). Once I'm sure I want to marry her (or more accurately, once she's sure about me), I think I won't want to wait more than I must. I already don't want to wait more than I have to...Then again, one difference is that I'm an Orthodox Jew and in our religion we can't so much as hold hands until we are married, thus marriage is far more urgent once you know who you want to marry than it is for most people. I also don't want to EVER establish a precident with a woman that we can generate cash by liquidating my assets. That is a good point I never thought about. If I do sell guns to buy the ring I probably should never tell her (or else later it may be expected to sell them for other things that come up).

#3) Car.
No. I can buy a new car with no money down.So can I, but that means a car loan, and I can't really do another right now (I would like to qualify for a mortgage before too long and I only recently started my job so I am comfortable but don't make that much). When I lived in the city, I went for YEARS after my divorce without a car. I rode the bus, I walked to work, I dated women that had a car, I got rides from friends if I had to, I had stuff delivered, I rode my bicycle. In my case specifically, I can't go without because it is a 60 mile round trip to and from work every day. The one thing that makes my girlfriend's car bareable to me is that she doesn't put nearly so many miles on it (she lives about 1 mile from work and can take alternative means to get there).
I don't buy other people cars....If someone NEEDS a car, and someone WANTS a car then they NEED to get a job and buy their own. Ahh, but she isn't the one that wants a new car, and she doesn't necessarily need one (her's works). It is me that wants her to get the new car (her's is a death-trap and I don't want her in that death-trap, and the accident I witnessed last week made these feelings even stronger), thus if she gets a new car I probably should be buying it (I don't know how me demanding her to buy one without giving the money would go, but I imagine it wouldn't be pretty:uhoh: ). Of course, that is a big purchase so it would have to wait until we are officially engaged (hmm, I wonder if she'd take a car in lieu of a ring, a carfully selected used car is just a little more money than a nice ring:scrutiny: - on second thought, that is probably a bad idea).

cracked butt
August 23, 2004, 03:56 AM
No, No, No, and No.

Dream house? Bah! there are plenty of houses out there, and if I were looking for a house, I would have my down payment and financing lined up ahead of time.

Engagement ring? Get engaged and married so that a woman can put the kabosh on your buying guns/shooting habits? bad trade. Maybe if the religeon required the woman to buy the man an engagement gun of equal value to her ring, I'd certainly consider it.


Car? Take a hit on the lost value of my guns by selling them in a fire sale to buy an 'investment' that constantly loses value? If a car breaks to the point where I cannot fix it myself, its seriously fubar, and I would know enough about the car's condition long before its demise to save for a new one.


I can think of a very short list of reasons to sell my guns-

-divorce
-a family member has cancer/or serious disease and money is needed for treatment

chaim
August 23, 2004, 04:09 AM
Get engaged and married so that a woman can put the kabosh on your buying guns/shooting habits? Who said anything about not being allowed to buy more guns or go shooting? I'm talking about having few savings (say, having only a few months in a job after a long unemployment period), meeting the woman of your dreams, and needing to sell a few guns (and due to a traditional religion/culture/whatever you can't get engaged now and buy the ring later). Heck, the only reason I'm thinking about selling guns is because they are easily replaced later. The woman I've met is ok with guns (she isn't crazy about shooting them herself, as in she went shooting once and didn't like it much, but she is fine with me owning them and buying more in the future). You guys know me by now, do you really think I'd consider marrying a woman who was anti-gun :eek:

cracked butt
August 23, 2004, 04:22 AM
The woman I've met is ok with guns (she isn't crazy about shooting them herself, as in she went shooting once and didn't like it much, but she is fine with me owning them and buying more in the future). You guys know me by now, do you really think I'd consider marrying a woman who was anti-gun

:uhoh:

Big red flag. May not be an anti at all, but might be tolerating your habits just to suck you in. You get married and she doesn't want you wasting 'our' money on stuff you don't 'need'. Don't want to say this, as I'm sure you met a wonderful woman, but make sure that the two of you have shared activities that you really like to do together.


Many jewelry shops will help you finance your purchases if you are light on cash;)

chaim
August 23, 2004, 04:52 AM
Big red flag. May not be an anti at all, but might be tolerating your habits just to suck you in. You get married and she doesn't want you wasting 'our' money on stuff you don't 'need'. Don't want to say this, as I'm sure you met a wonderful woman, but make sure that the two of you have shared activities that you really like to do together.

OK, I did want to make this more about my scenarios and get multiple opinions, but I'll answer these. I don't see this as that much of a "red flag". Many women aren't big fans of shooting for themselves but see no problem with it, and I don't know that many antis who decided to try shooting for themselves (it happens, but not much). As for wasting "our" money, we've had the money talk and she likes my philosophy. I don't believe getting married should make you a kid again where you need each other's permission to buy something. Of course, you also need stability and safety where you don't end up both trying the spend the same money in the bank. I (and she now too) see most money going into the "our" pot for bills and shared activities, with each getting $20-40/wk (depending upon income) for anything that is just for the individual. If I want to go out for a beer, she wants to go to a movie with the girls, she wants a particular luxury, or (we specifically discussed this as one of the catagories this money is for) I want a gun, it comes out of the individual's spending money. As for shared activities, I agree you have to have things in common, but that doesn't mean you need completely identical interests (though other than my guns and pipes, and her disliking red meat, we are nearly identical in wants, likes, goals, and leisure activities).

Many jewelry shops will help you finance your purchases if you are light on cash See my discussion about the car, and wanting to buy a house, to see why I don't want to use credit for anything right now. Anyway, I especially don't want to pay credit for a gift that if I still owe for it she will essentially be helping to pay for her ring (if debt is still there after you marry, she is helping to pay for her ring if she works too).



For all
BTW- I won't take anymore detours talking about the woman, I probably shouldn't have even included the "disclaimer" and "come clean". I haven't even asked her yet (probably as much as 2-3 months off still). I do want to see what people have to say about selling guns for these situations though.

chaim
August 23, 2004, 04:53 AM
OK, so far out of the two who have responded, we have none who would sell guns in my scenarios. Maybe for divorce or medical expenses (and I assume unemployment once it got to a certain level) but not for any "elective" reasons.

Anyone else?

chaim
August 23, 2004, 05:05 AM
Oops, accidental post.:o

Muzzleflash
August 23, 2004, 05:59 AM
When you really need money and have to get some- selling a gun sometimes is the only way to do it.

Norton
August 23, 2004, 06:28 AM
I'll take a different tack and say yes and no to all scenarios.

We've essentially been through all of the above in the last two years (well, except for the getting married thing) with buying a house, putting $20,000 into it in rehab, rebuilding the going-to-work beater car and my truck. Plus paying a payment on the "nice" car.

I've had to consider selling musical instruments to cover big ticket/life change type expenses like the house but fortunately we've been able to come with the cash to avoid a sell off.

It would be my humble opinion that you should evaluate the cash value and affective value of each of your firearms and decide which ones are an absolute no-go as far as selling. Then decide which ones are possibilities, and then which ones you know that you could bear to part with.

For instance, I have a .22pistol that FIL gave us last year....it's fun and reliable, but not accurate enough to justify keeping it in lieu of the Ruger MkII if a financial crisis came up. OTOH hand, my Garand is my baby......spent 15 hours in the car on a road trip with Spot77, hand picked it, lovingly cleaned it. I won't ever sell it.

OTOH (OK work with me here ;) ), my Taurus revolver was my first gun, but I could sell it. It's my bump in the night gun, but I have other things that I could use for that purpose.

On the car thing....there are decent used cars out there, especially for those who only drive 1 mile to work....don't be afraid to look (carefully) at used cars.

Our situation is somewhat different in that we have 2 incomes already and were married before I got into guns.

Maybe I'm an ol' softy, but if you are ready to take the marriage step and want to pop the question.....that's the most important thing in your life right now. Inanimate objects can be replaced....people can't.

On the car thing....there are decent used cars out there, especially for those who only drive 1 mile to work.

Real estate....tough call, especially in this area. The home prices are increasing at a greater rate than you are able to save for down payments. 2% a month is not uncommon in most communities here, Annapolis in particular. So, a $200k house this month is $204k next month. The big boom in prices is levelling off, but the projections are that the Baltimore region as whole will see minimum of 6% increase. IOW, the longer you wait the further you could find yourself behind the downpayment curve.

Hopefully it won't come down to a sell off, but it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition.

Okiecruffler
August 23, 2004, 06:43 AM
I know I'm in a rather small quiet minority here, but I sell them all the time. I just sold off a batch because they were more or less in the way and just duplicates of what I already had. Sure I've sold some I regret, but I'll just have to replace them some day. Now if you question had been "When would you sell ALL of your guns?". Well that's another thing entirely.

cpileri
August 23, 2004, 07:05 AM
Chaim-
Here's my take, and with 10 cents it will buy a gumball.

1. House: considering the area you live in, you have to consider if you are planning to ever sell the home for a place with better whatever: climate, gun laws, etc. If you ARE then know that at least right now while the housing bubble expands, your home will be the best investment you ever made!
Example: we owned that pretty-darn-average townhouse we lived in in SS for just over 18 months, and sold it in a week for 1.5x what we paid for it!
Then by luck we moved to an area with lower housing costs, and after the down payment cleared much more than the average guy would spend on a decent car and respectable engagement ring.
Its a longer-term investment in that you'll have to wait to get the equity up or mortgage paid (ideal), but so is a marriage. Do that and you'll keep all your guns and give them all dancing partners as well.
Do you know a financial planner you can curbside consult (i.e. for free)?

2. Ring: Hey, this is not a pure money decision and everyone knows it. So many stories about bad marriages and split ups- and YES it is a gift she can keep if the engagement doesnt work out so consider it money GONE- but I can tell you this: if you really did find the right girl, you'll never regret a single thing you buy her.
I've been with my wife 10 years, married for 8 of them; my dad adn mom have been married (once each, BTW. same for me and mine) for 35 years, my grandparents for 50 (and even still unless yo consider a spouses death the end of the marriage); so from a long line of happily married men i can only say just buy the ring you want to give her. If you have to have to have to sell a gun THAT IS REPLACEABLE (and not your current favorite) then do so.

3. Car. Well, a good safe car should frankly be HER concern until you are married. Not that you want her to get hurt. Get a 'kid mobile' (Ddge Grand Caravan, etc) when you two decide to have kids but before they are born. And maybe I am wierd in that my Y-chromosome does not contain the cool-car-gene, although i do want a big truck for hauling stuff, so i don't give a flyin' about my car. So I drive a safe car but i wouldn't sell something PRECIOUS to finance something with simple VALUE. But keep in mind I place far less worth on a vehicle than most. They are a necesity and nothing more.
BTW: the key to keeping out of accidents, besides some luck, is good driving. If she scares you on the road, dont forget she MIGHT be driving that way with your kids in the car someday!

Hope this helped. Sorry I didnt see you before we left!
C-

JohnBT
August 23, 2004, 08:46 AM
I can't help you out on your questions. Sorry.

I was thinking of selling my house and car to buy guns. I could move into a little 2-room apartment and buy an old Cavalier and clear, oh, $200k on the deal.

Now if I could find a range that would let me park a little trailer and a moped... :)

John

WalkerTexasRanger
August 23, 2004, 09:18 AM
Yes, I would. I buy and sell occasionally, actually sold a 700VS yesterday.

Now, would I ever be without guns entirely, no way.

Taste change, shooting preferences change. etc. I would never hesitate to sell to finance something else important, at least certain guns. Some will never be sold, just depends.

Many people buy guns as investments as well. Investments are just that, they are traded, bought, and/or sold. I dont purchase with the intention of making money, just diversification of assets. I have made money occasionally, lost occasionally, broken even most of the time. You cant beat that with an investment, you get to use it, then sell it for what you paid for it, only Real Estate works the same, cars no, boats no, motorcycles no, you get the point.....

ID_shooting
August 23, 2004, 09:31 AM
I sold a bunch of mine last spring, two rifles, one shotgun and two handguns.

We were sitting on the couch watching TV during a nasty early-spring rain storm and the celing fell in just in front of the door, Wife looks over at the hole then at me and said "its raining in the house."

Well, the materials estimate is about 3k and since she had lost her job that winter we hadn't been able to build our savings back up. Had to have a new roof, so......

I did keep the esentials and did not sell the hierlooms.

Kamicosmos
August 23, 2004, 10:32 AM
In all of your situations, you can get the money relatively easily by working more hours or watching your budget more.

I have yet to sell any of my guns. This includes periods of unemployment that I'm still getting caught up from. If I had sold my guns to cover bills or the mortgage, I'd still be behind on bills AND have no guns!

The only financial situation that would warrant selling the guns might be if I needed some life saving operation that my insurance wouldn't cover. And in that type of situation, selling off my guns isn't going to come anywhere close to covering that amount of money.

Smoke
August 23, 2004, 10:54 AM
The only reason I'd ever consider selling my guns would be:

To pay for treatment of illness of my wife or kids.

That's about it. Can't think of another reason.

Smoke

WT
August 23, 2004, 11:00 AM
I am old and gray and retired, in good health. I have more firearms than I want. I have started selling some of them off or giving them away to friends or family.

I don't need the money.

chaim
August 23, 2004, 11:09 AM
OK, I still want general input, but here are the specifics I'm thinking.....

If it was only a downpayment for a house or a ring I wouldn't need to sell. However, trying to do both means I probably need to sell some guns for the ring. For the car, I figure I'll need to convince her she needs something safer (she makes at least as much money as I do, more actually, but she lives in a more expensive area so it is a wash), but if it is my idea I'll probably need to be able to put in some of the money to convince her (she is perfectly happy with what she is driving, it is me who doesn't want her in that car). With the savings for a house, and with the ring coming soon I figure I may need to sell a gun for some money for the car (though I might just cut the downpayment and then have to buy mortgage insurance).

Anyway, while it is probably a couple months before I need to buy the ring, if I sell the guns myself (and sell for fair market value instead of selling at "firesale" prices) it may take a couple months to sell them all so I may need to put them up soon. I am thinking about selling my AR- I like it, but it is a lot of money to have tied up in a gun I don't shoot much (I don't shoot rifles very much at all) and it would get me a good chunk of the way there to the ring (the rifle is a top of the line Bushmaster so I could fairly easily get $750 for it and maybe to $800 if I sell with 2 of the mags, then I could sell the four Colt 20 round mags for $20-25 each). I don't use or like my Remington 581 much ($100-150) so it would go, I rarely shoot (actually only once in the year or so I've owned it) my Savage 110 in 30-06 (I could probably get $200), I don't like my Colt Police Positive Special ($175-200), I was thinking about selling my Bersa anyway due to the safety design since I want to standardize on 1911 style safeties (I'm not sure what I could sell it for, probably somewhere between $150-200), and I probably would sell 2 of my 3 .357magnums (should net at least $600). That gives me $2055 on the low end to $2250 on the high end of my "guesstimates" (assuming I sell them myself and don't have to pay 20% consignment fees. Thus I would net between $1644 if I sell on the lower end and all sell through dealers, to $2250 if they sell on the higher end and all sell myself. That would get me a good chunk of the way towards a decent ring and would still leave me with about half of my guns, and with the exception of the AR and the .357s I wouldn't be selling anything I'd miss much (and none would be hard to replace later).

Onmilo
August 23, 2004, 11:26 AM
What would it take to sell some of my guns? Hmmm,,,,,,,
The right amount of $$$

Heraclitus
August 23, 2004, 12:06 PM
At its peak my handgun collection numbered about thirty. Today it stands at only seven.

Moolah was never an issue. The reasons for dumping the balance were:

A) I realized that I am not a collector at heart.
B) I realized that I cannot love what I cannot shoot well.
C) I realized that you can say such things on THR and live to tell about it.

444
August 23, 2004, 12:36 PM
One thing that bothers me about this, is the amount of money involved. Or maybe I am out of touch.
I am considering buying a new house as we speak. Down payments here, for the houses I am looking at are like $30,000. Selling a couple guns that I don't really want anyway isn't going to net me that kind of money, so why do it ? Then we have the engagement ring. It has been a long time since I bought an engagement rings but I think it was in about 1986. Back then I paid around $2000 for a decent ring. I gotta think that now it would be more. Again, selling a couple old guns I have sitting in the corner isn't going to get me that kind of money: although in this case it would help (with the house it would be spit in the ocean).
I know I am mean and insensitive: I have an obsession about personal responsibility and sacrifice but if your girlfirend only has to drive ONE mile to work, I wouldn't be worried about it at all. If she breaks down, she is only a few hundred yards either from work or home. I am not bagging on your girlfriend (really, I am talking about myself only), but if I lived that close to work and drove a car, I wouldn't be able to live with myself for being lazy and wasting the opportunity to get a little painless exercise. I have bagged on guys I work with for doing something similar. After I first got married, I couldn't afford to pay for car insurance on two cars, so I sold my car (my wife wouldn't consider selling hers even though she didn't work and didn't really have a valid reason for owning one). I walked several miles to work, walked home for lunch, and walked home at night. Why pay for a membership at the gym ? :D

dukeofurl
August 23, 2004, 12:45 PM
What it would take? The right price!

I'd sell for the sake of selling almost anytime, makes room for newer toys.

I would try just giving a gun instead of an engagement ring. Form follows function.

Expensive piece of carbon: No function
Expensive piece of machined steel: As much function as desired, depending on ammo!

Atticus
August 23, 2004, 01:52 PM
There are a couple of mine that I would only sell under dire circumstances...the rest...make me an offer. They are just THINGS after all- and you can't take em with you.

bamawrx
August 23, 2004, 02:01 PM
I have sold guns but they were ordinary and were sold to finance more interesting guns. If you have rare stuff then keep them at all cost, or sell to a friend with a buyback agreement. I have entered into buyback agreements with friends that needed some cash. They get their money and I agree to sell them back the gun if they want it later.

jamz
August 23, 2004, 02:25 PM
I'm new at gunnery, but I bought a couple of pistols and a rifle last year, and was given a rifle by my Dad.

After around March or so, we experienced a huge financial crunch, started burning through savings, had to make plans to sell the house and move to a cheaper house. I sold my two pistols and rifle to Dad, and kept only the rifle that my Dad gave me.

Now the financial picture is slightly better, we still have to move into a more affordable home, which we will in the winter or spring (Out of MA, that's one good thing), and some "found" money let me purchase a small pocket pistol for carry so I could protect myself if needed.

I've sold some parts off of my car that I had bought in wealthier times, and the proceeds from these will buy my guns back bit by bit, starting this Thursday. :D :D

After a while, maybe I can afford the M44 back, and then after a long while, the SW1911.

461
August 23, 2004, 02:40 PM
I personally have two sets of guns, one that I will never for any reason let go, and one that is a constantly revolving thing. I'll sell from my revolving collection to finance wants and needs from time to time, but that's because my forever guns will meet all my needs.

Texian Pistolero
August 23, 2004, 02:46 PM
I have sold a few guns under dire necessity, but have always regreted it.
The are a lot of hidden costs in selling a gun:

instant depreciation, loss of 8 % sales tax, all the little accessories that ad up to $100 or more, all the range time and $$ammo you spent getting it up to go.

And now you are selling it at a discount.

If you get flush again, you start over on the above expenses.

MJRW
August 23, 2004, 03:49 PM
Sure. As long as I have a gun to carry, a handgun for the home (may double up with the carry), a rifle to reach out, and a shotgun with versatility, there are things that are more important to me than the rest of the collection.

Dorrin79
August 23, 2004, 04:40 PM
This may be heresy around here, but I would sell some of my guns for any of the reasons you laid out.

Luckily when I went through the same process last year (new truck, 1st house and marriage in a 4-month timespan) I didn't need to sell any of my guns, but if I had I would have without hesitation.

I would never sell all of my guns, though - at bare minimum I would want a CCW pistol and a HD shotgun.

I would also neversell a gun with sentimental value (I don't have any with sentimental value right now, so that's not a barrier for me...)

MICHAEL T
August 23, 2004, 05:01 PM
I will not sell my guns!!! My family can do what they want after Iam gone ,but while Iam alive I will not sell. I will only buy more.:D

Calhoun
August 23, 2004, 05:30 PM
Let's get down to brass tacks here. Get your priorities in order. The house should be at the top. Once you get the house, and trust me on this one, you will have people tripping over themselves to give you money. (Not always a good thing) This makes getting the car/engagement ring/ whatever else you want easier. Sell the guns for the house and don't look back. Having said that, if you have a gun that if you sell it you will never forgive yourself, hang on to it. I have a shotgun that was my grandfathers. Nothing fancy, a Mossberg .410 boltaction shotgun. I couldn't get more than $150 or $200 for it, but I wouldn't sell it for a million. It could NEVER be replaced and the guilt would never leave. Things like that, hold on to.

The ring: Read the above paragraph. Sell the guns to get the house first and you will be able to get the ring. You know, you can get some real nice rings for a few hundred dollars. Save up for a few months. She's worth it.

The car: If you need it for work, so you can eat, go to the doctor, etc. go for it.

Just don't sell them all, or bad bad things could happen.

Calhoun

cracked butt
August 23, 2004, 05:46 PM
If you are selling guns for a downpayment on a house? how many guns are you talking about?:scrutiny:
If you are buying a $200,000 house, you'll need roughly $20,000 down if you don't want to saddle yourself with extra and expensive PMI payments.

I don't think alot of people have $20,000 worth of guns to sell- ok maybe a few people here, but not many. The average colelction might be worth $1000-3000, of which you'll probably get only 75% back from, barely makes a dent in the down payment.

Mad Man
August 23, 2004, 05:54 PM
What would it take for you to sell some of your guns?

When I realized that the lack of nearby and convenient places to shoot makes this hobby an incredible waste of time and money.

That most clubs are run by a "good ol' boys network" doesn't help, either.

Yes, I'm having a crisis of faith...

Dead
August 23, 2004, 05:58 PM
Sell a gun?? I better go BUY one first :) Can not sell something you do not "own" ;)

Dead
August 23, 2004, 06:00 PM
cracked butt,

I would love to find a house for 200k where I live, nearly everything around me is on the north side of 400k.

Jason Demond
August 23, 2004, 08:16 PM
1. House: No-----Live in car.



2. Ring: No-----Cz in a stainless ring.



3. Car: No-----Ride a bike.

I will only sell a gun when it falls out of my favor.
:D

Ala Dan
August 23, 2004, 08:34 PM
Greeting's All-

Well, being that I already own my home; and I'm a happily married
man, the house and the ring are out of the picture. About the only
thing I would consider selling firearms to fund would be in a case
where a family member was critically (or terminally) ill, and in need
of some medication(s) that they otherwise would not have access
too.

So, if any family member (or friend) gets locked up in the cross-bar
hotel don't expect me to sell firearms to bail them out! You would
most definitely be on your own; as you got yourself in there in the
first place, now find a way to get out! (:D Laughing Loudly:D )

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

horge
August 23, 2004, 08:49 PM
What would it take for you to sell some of your guns?
A request from my wife.
A request from the Pope.

Anyone else can molon labe my Filipino butt.

:D



Yes, yes, I know. Not what you meant. Move along now...

Standing Wolf
August 23, 2004, 08:59 PM
I once "sold" some guns to a thief. I'll let my heirs worry about selling my guns.

Majic
August 23, 2004, 09:09 PM
I could possibly squeeze a down payment out of the sale of my guns, but if it came to that then I'm really not ready to buy that house.
The ring would be treated like a gun and I will get it when I have saved enough for it. If she can't wait then she wasn't for me anyway.
I learned long ago to forget new cars and shop for quality used models.
I'm no longer a spring chicken and have learned patience trumps haste.

Like the others before me, if the health of a loved one is in danger then they would go on the market as that's truly a need and not just a want.

spacemanspiff
August 23, 2004, 09:39 PM
show me the house that the sale of my guns can provide a downpayment for! maybe a cardboard box? :D

if i ever get to the point where i get engaged, someone slap me upside the head. thats money better spent on myself. sorry gals, when it comes down to it, i'm a selfish butthead. could explain why i'm single, no? :neener:

i've been without a car for a long time now. being within walking distance from work/store is all i really need. but sometimes those walks to work in january are really not that fun. :uhoh:

sadp40
August 23, 2004, 10:13 PM
an h&k p7m8 in my hand i would sell some for sure baby....!!!! or p7m13 either one i'm not picky

Flatfender
August 24, 2004, 01:16 AM
Money. Lots and lots of money!






Then I'd take that money and buy me some guns. :D

mnrivrat
August 24, 2004, 02:18 AM
Outside of keeping just one , guns are still just stuff ! You can always buy more stuff in better times or even live without it if you have to.

What takes priority is what is more important at the time. It would be parting with the last gun I own that would realy be a problem for me - all the rest are just gravy .

patent
August 24, 2004, 02:53 AM
I am one of those who has never, ever sold a gun. I expect I will die with every gun I've ever bought, except those I give to my kids along the way.

That said, there are things worth selling for. I think you have to look at it in two steps. First you have to decide what's more important to you. Is a house more important than a gun? How much important?

Then you have to decide if selling the less important thing will really help you get the more important thing.


House: For the first step, I don't know how important a house is to you. It is typically a very good investment. It is also typically very expensive. My downpayment on my first house was 25K, and I was probably in a cheaper area than you are. Plan on 10% of the value.

Also, you have to plan on living there for awhile, even if you get married. Buy a dump and she will want to sell. Transaction costs of moving houses eat up any profit real quickly. If you do plan on getting married, it may be better to wait and let your wife help you look. DON'T let your girlfriend help, IMHO. Too much pressure on the relationship.

Anyway, I've seen a number of guys buy houses, get married, and watch their wife gut and refurbish the house's interior to make it "habitable." Unless you have far better taste than I, not to many women will have your taste in interior decorating. In your shoes I might suggest waiting to buy a house, even though normally I think its a good idea to do it.

Second, you indicated you have about 2K in guns you could sell. Not much of a dent in a house buying process. Personally, I don't think the small gain you make towards your downpayment is worth the hassle and transaction costs present in selling your guns. Not unless they are guns you don't want anyway.


Engagement Ring: First part: you have to look at this through the lens of your faith. I doubt many posters, if any, responding on the thread is looking at it like your faith says you should. Some of the guys here don't place much value in marriage, which is their right of course, but it strikes me as very different than what you see as valuable. I'm not Jewish, but my faith views marriage in a somewhat similar fashion to what an Orthodox Jew would, so I tend to think the ring is more important than the guns. I would sell my guns if that was important to my wife. My marriage takes precedence over everything else, my things, my job, etc. Only my faith comes before my wife.

Second part: unlike the house, 2K from guns will go along way for a ring. Shop smart, check the internet for rocks and bid your jeweler down based on what you know to be the true cost of the rock, and you can do quite well. I still hesitate to sell to buy a ring, but that's just me. If you don't care much about the gun, hey, get rid of it. Put the money away for when you want to use it, whether it be a ring or whether it be a new gun later.

CAR: Hey, buy the ring first, and wait a couple months to see how the relationship is going. Don't buy it all at once. That said, I can't see selling for a car given that a car isn't all that more important than a gun, so long as you have one that works.

On the other hand 2K is a good start for a good used car.

So, my summary: House, no. Ring, yes. Car, no.

Good luck,

patent

Valkman
August 24, 2004, 03:25 AM
I haven't seen any scenario here that would make me sell any of my guns. When I bought my first house I had almost no money but found one that was being repo'd and got in with $1500 cash, which I had. Because of that I knew I'd have to drive my old truck a long time, but that was ok. Now the wife and I have both sold houses for huge profits, bought the house we live in now plus alot of toys including a number of guns. Can't think of anything that would make me sell them!

Trebor
August 24, 2004, 05:25 AM
Right now all I need to sell a couple of my guns is a willing buyer. I have a Winchester M-1 Garand and a HK P7 PSP for sale if anyone's interested...

Piney
August 24, 2004, 07:05 PM
Guns are like everything else I own…just things. All can be replaced. There is much more that is important to me and none of them are objects.

Sheslinger
August 24, 2004, 10:15 PM
You don't need a $20,000 downpayment on a 200K house. You can get an FHA loan and put down 3-4%.

1) House - we already own one but I'll pretend that we don't... probably would not sell guns but work more to get my 3-4% downpayment.

2) Engagement ring - no way. If she loves you and you don't have the money, she does not NEED a ring, a ring is just a symbol of status, nothing else.

3) New car - no way, get one of those 0% loans and pay no interest.

Julie

ksnecktieman
August 24, 2004, 11:05 PM
I have been there, seen that, done that,,,,,,,,, YOU have to choose your own priorities. I recently cut down from about 30, to about fifteen guns for financial reasons (business went bad). No regrets. When I decided that was the best thing for me to do, I gave it real hard thought. I decided that I NEED four guns, a defensive pistol, a squirrel rifle, a shotgun for birds, and a deer rifle. Anything else is optional.

In my opinion there are many things more important than making loud noises, and holes in something. Think about it, and decide your needs, and your wants, and act accordingly.

Yes, some day you will look back, and say "wow, I wish I still had that (enter gun of your choice here)".

Good luck with the wedding, and I hope it does not end up with you thinking someday, "Wow, I will never forget old,,,, ??? whats her name, darn, I forgot:what:

GigaBuist
August 24, 2004, 11:43 PM
My children and grand children will always be permitted to buy a house or a vehicle. They may not be permitted to always buy a firearm though.

Well, provided I ever find somebody that I get along with well enough to pro-create that is!

I might be crazy, but I want to make sure my family is armed. Even those that do not exist yet.

It would take a LOT to get me to sell one. Even the "crap" that I have around here. Three years, 16 arms. I'm serious about this.

ksnecktieman
August 25, 2004, 12:10 AM
Giga,,,, You may be assuming too much, to expect "grandfather clauses" regarding such evil things as firearms. (Or am I assuming too much, to think you mean legal firearms?)

sssshhhh sssshhhhh ( 6 inch PVC is cheapest at a plumbing wholesaler)

444
August 25, 2004, 12:29 AM
In a similar vein, a lot of the posts take it as a given that these guns can always be replaced. That may or may not be true.
In the first place once you buy a house and get married, money is usually tight. And you usually have to justify your expeditures to some extent. You will have to buy all kinds of stuff for the house, then the kids come along............
Second of course is the law. What if you can't legally replace them ? What if gun contol takes the form of the AWB: they don't outright ban guns, but stop the manufacture of guns ? Or tell you that you can keep the ones you have but can buy no more ? What if replacing them becomes to big a burden ? When I got divorced, I sold several of my guns to make ends meet. It just so happened that a couple years prior to my divorce, the AWB was enacted. When I got back on my feet and was able to buy guns again, I simply wasn't willing to pay four times the price to replace them. Of course over time, I bit the bullet and paid the price to replace them, but it took years and lots of overtime. And, if I had a new house and/or a new wife I am sure it would have been out of the question.
It seems to me that you were able to earn the money to buy the guns in the first place therefore it stands to reason that you can earn that much money again without selling your assets to get it.
You are trying to do an awful lot in a short period of time. The whole thing sounds like sort of an impluse decision where you decided this is what you want to do and it has to happen yesterday. Take your time, do what is in your best interest and you will live happily ever after.

Signed:
The King of Impulse

ddc
August 25, 2004, 12:55 AM
I'd sell a gun I'd lost interest in...

For example say I had a ParaOrd P13, blue, 45acp, with a couple of high cap mags...

I'd probably sell it if you were interested... :D

chaim
August 25, 2004, 02:09 AM
Engagement ring - no way. If she loves you and you don't have the money, she does not NEED a ring, a ring is just a symbol of status, nothing else. Sheslinger, I would have agreed with you in the days before I became religious. However, part of what is required in Orthodox Judaism to officially become engaged is the giving of a valuable gift, and it has come to be that a ring is now what is expected. There isn't much choice there. Maybe I could get away with a cheaper ring or a diamond bracelet, but I need to give something along those lines (and if I have to give something valuable, then for my emotional satisfaction, it must be a ring of at least middle quality). The only other option, and I'm sure knowing most women I'd be taking my life into my hands if I suggested it, is using a car as the valuable gift and "kill two birds with one stone", then maybe buy the ring later. Actually, a bit more realistic might be buying the house a little sooner and using that as the valuable gift, I might survive that one (women, with exceptions, aren't usually into cars, but many are into houses, and both seem true with the woman I'm dating).


You are trying to do an awful lot in a short period of time. The whole thing sounds like sort of an impluse decision where you decided this is what you want to do and it has to happen yesterday. Take your time, do what is in your best interest and you will live happily ever after.

I know it may seem that way, but it is not as quick as it might seem.

-House: I am 34 years old, I've been thinking about it for years. I also used to work in the financial field (sort of, it was retail/consumer level banking) so I know that renting is a waste of money and I don't want to do it again if I don't have to. I can live with my parents for some time right now so I will do that and save for a downpayment (mortgage payments will probably be less in the houses I'm considering than rent would be). The only thing fast is that I'm old enough that I'm not waiting years (a year plus or minus a few months or until I'm married, whichever comes first) living with my parents, and I just got a good job 2 months ago.

As others have said, you don't always need 10-20% for a downpayment. With decent credit $0 will get you a house with expensive mortgage insurance. FHA loans or good negotiation skills can allow a smaller downpayment without mortgage insurance. Also, potentially keeping down the downpayment, where the Orthodox community is in Baltimore I can get an acceptable house for $160K or a nice duplex for $100K, though there are some pretty expensive houses too.

-Engagement ring: I am an Orthodox Jew. I should have been married years ago, but I only just now got a good enough job to consider it. We don't date long. We date with an eye very seriously set on marriage, we ask the big questions early, and so we tend to know fairly soon (and with "chemistry", to a degree it is there or it isn't, it isn't usually developed). Also, once we know who we want to spend our lives with, we aren't waiting because in our religion we can't so much as shake hands with someone of the opposite sex we aren't related to. Can you imagine the emotional stress of being in love with someone and not being able to touch in any way, not even hugs or hand holding? As a result we usually are engaged or broken up within a couple months of meeting (often much sooner), and married within a few short months of the engagement. It works, I haven't always been Orthodox but I have been for several years, so I've seen plenty of married couples both Orthodox and not and most of the happiest, strongest and longest lasting marriages I've seen are Orthodox Jews.

-Car: I just bought a new car when I got the job, good thing too since my old one died a month later. I want the woman I'm dating to get a new car because her's is a death-trap. I wish she already had a safe car, but she doesn't. Not much I could do about that. If we marry she will need a new car asap (I won't have my wife, when/if that happens, driving an unsafe car). The only other option is if we can get by only with my car, and I'm not sure that is a possibility (not in the beginning when I'll be working 40 miles away and she'll probably be working too).

chaim
August 25, 2004, 02:41 AM
Anyway, I have pretty much made up my mind about selling.

I posted this more to get where other people's minds would be for similar situations. I wasn't so much trying to get advice, it was more curiousity. That is why I initially posted generally. I thought I was making a mistake when I "came clean" in the second post and gave my situation- I knew that would make it about me and my situation, and I'd get fewer of the kind of hypothetical answers I was looking for. However, I posted it anyway knowing that with the kind of questions I posed people's minds would be running.


So, since this thread has mostly become about my choice anyway, here again is what I've decided.

-House. I'm saving while I can live at home (a year +/- a little or until I'm married, whichever comes first) to get as much downpayment as I can. I'll probably be buying something in the $90-160K range in the area of Baltimore that the Jewish community is located so I don't need that much, especially if I can get an FHA loan.

-Car: I'm not selling guns for the car. I don't have enough guns to sell for both the ring and the car without cutting too deeply. I'm not sure what I'm doing about the car, I just can't have her in the car she's in once we're married ("if we're married" is more accurate than "once" I guess, but I think this is highly likely). She works too, hopefully I can convince her to buy a new car herself without my financial input (but being that she isn't worried about it being unsafe, it is reliable, she isn't into cars and it is my idea, that will be a very hard sell).

-Ring: Selling about half of my guns will get me around $2K +/- a few hundred. I'd rather not take from the money that will go into a downpayment on a house to buy a ring. A friend has an uncle in diamond wholesaling and he thinks his uncle will give me a deal, if not some people I've known for years (parents of a friend) own a jewelry store. At internet prices (there are reputable diamond merchants on the web) $2K will get a decent diamond (not great, but good), and with my friend's uncle or my other friend's parents I might do better. Thus, with only a little taken out of the house money I can get a pretty decent ring if I sell some guns.

The guns can be replaced later. She agrees with my philosophy that we each should have a small amount of money ($20-40 each a week) that is ours to do with as we please. She is ok with guns. It might take some time, but any I want to replace I can (none are particularly rare). I probably would eventually replace the AR and one of the .357s, but otherwise I doubt I'd even bother replacing them anyway (well, replacing with duplicates anyway, for most I would probably buy something in the same catagory but different models).

Anyway, I am interested in what you would do with similar scenarios. Most have answered that way. Many have and then commented on my specifics. Some almost seem to have tried to engage me in debate. What I most want is, what would you do facing these choices?

ksnecktieman
August 25, 2004, 04:08 AM
Like I said Chaim,,, you have to make the decision, and we do not know your priorities, at the very least, save one defensive weapon. If you can not defend her, you do not deserve her,,,,,,, explain that to her and she will accept it.
Most guns are toys, noise makers, paper punchers, and investments, decide what yours are and act accordingly.

Before you buy a ring? Go to your local pawn shops, look at what they have, and for how much money, I am not saying to buy there,,,,,,, but there are no new diamonds,,, they are all used,,,,, The jewelry chains will sell you a ring for 3,000$ that you can buy from a pawn shop for 300$. You would not buy a car if you did not understand the difference in a V8 and a four cylinder. So are you going to buy a ring with less understanding? Shop around.

Majic
August 25, 2004, 04:56 AM
Another option you may not have thought of is to let her drive "your new car"as it's only a few months old. Most couples do have the woman driving the newest car and the man getting by with the older model. That part of your problem could have already been solved leaving just the ring and housing to focus on.

cracked butt
August 25, 2004, 05:55 AM
Chaim- don't feel too bad about the expensive gift thing. I have a good friend who is Hmong, about 35 years old, and cannot afford to get married. He told me that in his culture, a man would have to pay a bride's family a pretty large sum of money- he told me about $15,000 for an 'acceptable' bride and $20,000+ for a really good one:what:
He said then there are 2 or 3 different wedding receptions/parties that he must pay for that would run into the thousands of $$'s each.

I wanted to tell him that American girls are initially cheaper, but I respect him too much to give him a hard time about his culture, though most other things aren't off limits:D

45Badger
August 25, 2004, 04:18 PM
This is too good to pass up!

First the serious answer-

Live within your means. This means making choices. 'nuff said.

Now the fun part-

Buy her an expensive 1911!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A gift from your heart, she can protect herself with it, you can spend time together as a family practicing with it, etc, etc , etc......

444
August 26, 2004, 05:39 PM
Well let me be the first to wish you the best of luck and congradulations on all the changes taking place in your life.
I hope all your decisions have been wise.


One note on the ring: go all out on it. You both will be happy for a lifetime if you make a serious sacrifice now. With guns, some of us put form over function. Most of us like our guns to look as good as they perform. The only purpose (other than what it represents to the two of you) of a ring is to look good. So, get one that looks good: she will have it for a lifetime and display it on her hand every day for the rest of her life: that deserves some sacrifice.

BryanP
August 28, 2004, 10:23 AM
House - Rent until you can save money for a good down payment. There's no shame in renting an apartment. I love being a homeowner but it's something you build up to (so to speak ...).

Ring - Buy what you can afford. If what you can afford is a plain gold band then that should be good enough. If you can afford better, that's great. Back when I got married we were both rather poor - each of us now makes more money than the two of us put together back then. You will buy her a nicer ring later.

Car - Do a little research and pay cash for a good used car. $5000 cash will get you a decent car in the 5-6 year old range. If you get it checked out all that BS about "buying someone else's problems" is just that. If you have to put $1200 a year total in to maintenance (you won't have to spend that much if you are careful) that's basically a $100 car payment. Show me where you can get a decent car for $100 a month.

I speak from experience. In 2000 I bought a 1994 Chevy Corsica for $4300 in cash. It had 89,000 miles on it. I spent another $700 getting various minor problems fixed and putting new tires on it. At the time (until I changed employers about 6 months ago) I had a job that involved driving my own car. A lot. One to three thousand miles per month not counting personal driving. That car is now 10 years old, has 235,000 miles on it and is still a rock-solid reliable car. Why? Because I don't skimp on the maintenance. When it needs maintenance I get it done. You can research reliability records for particular models and look up individual vehicle history online these days. It's a big help.

If you don't have to drive as much as I did then your car will probably look a little nicer - I was more interested in price and reliability than appearance.

Bryan

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