Anti-gun neighbor comes around...sort of..


August 23, 2004, 08:51 AM
So I have this neighbor,older wacky type(actually bi polar).....she's your typical liberal,anti gun,PETA,feeds the animals(like our racoon problem isn't bad enough).....
anyway,my wife is doing some painting for her,and she mentions that she caught a squirrel that kept eating her bird seed.She has it in a "have a heart trap"...she askes my wife if will come over and shoot it:D
My wife says..."I'm sure he will.."
So I go over with my 10/22 and plug the little scavenger.....
Now the woman has "blood lust":D
She calls later that day and says"Tell Tony to keep his 22 in working order,I set the trap again and will have many more pests for him to kill."
It's amusing how people are anti-gun untill it's for their benefit......anyway,I told her after 10 kills I'm going to charge her for the ammo;)
BTW...doesn't it defeat the purpose of a "have a heart" trap,if you shoot it?It's kind of toying with the animal emotions:p

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August 23, 2004, 08:54 AM
Just a small suggestion to test her out. Why don't you try teaching her how to shoot, then bring your gun over and let her shoot the little pests?

However, after thinking it over...I'm not sure this may be such a hot idea.

August 23, 2004, 09:01 AM
Great story.

This is typical of the looney left. Use a "have-a-heart" trap, then kill it. Next time go over and club the varmin to death with a baseball bat. Then see what she says. When you ask her why she has you do the dirty work, see if her answer fits the triad of deny, deflect, de-emphasize. If you are not familiar with this, I wrote about it in my blog at

Today's Commentary: August 16th, 2004

Hello thinkers!

My family and I are now back on terra firma after our vacation. As relaxing as it was, I could not resist being a civics geek at least once while at sea, and did I create a monster. There were seven of us in our group and at our first dinner I informally toasted them all. Once the drinkers among us had our poison and the rest had their water I raised my glass and said "Cheers everyone. I cannot think of six people I would rather be on this trip with." There was a brief pause while the crystal went 'clink' and the women in cocktail dresses said "aww". I then completed my sentence, "...Even if some of you are voting for Kerry this November."

After the chuckles subsided, I sat back. What I witnessed next reminded me of the scene from "Stand by Me" where Lard-Ass forced the entire crowd viewing the pie eating contest into a massive domino effect of reflex puking. The only subtle difference was that, instead of semi-digested stomach contents, political viewpoints were being violently hurled across the table. Like I said, a subtle difference. The heated debate continued for over an hour and the majority of the dinner. Believe it or not, I said very little for reasons I will soon describe. I sat back with my merlot and prime rib and enjoyed the show.

It was truly remarkable. Keeping in the spirit of 'what happens on the cruise stays on the cruise', I shall not get into specifics. However, I will say that I have a whole new respect for my wife - the registered Democrat (!) who deftly fielded one verbal assault after another justifying her reasons for voting Bush/Cheney in November. Now this reverence is not due to the fact that her vote will coincide with mine, but it is because she refused to drink the 57 varieties of Kool-Aid. Going against the party which prevailed in the home of your youth and in your perspective (even if you are only now loosely affiliated with it) because of principle takes guts, and my wife has got 'em.

As I was enjoying my ringside seat to the carnage, I could not help but think about some distinct defensive patterns that I've noticed over the years when it comes to arguing with the left. I have seen some unmistakable consistency once you get the left on the ropes and they cannot reach around to give you a rabbit punch. These occur whether you are debating foreign policy, the war on terror, or tax cuts for the vampires who make decent incomes during the day and roam the night drinking the blood of inner city minority children.

Sometimes though, you need to draw your opponent out and begin the attack before these patterns manifest themselves. Different tactics work for different people, but the one that works best for me is what I call the 'Russian Winter'. The name comes from the Russian military tactic of letting the adversary enter their soil with only token resistance. Once the enemy supply lines are stretched thin, the brutal Russian winter tenderizes the invaders before the counter-attack. I emulate this tactic by innocently asking open ended questions of my friends on the left like, "Why do you think George Bush is worse than Saddam Hussein?" Or "Do you believe Bush really lied about Iraqi WMD?" Often at this point, the liberal mice cannot help themselves, and go for the cheese.

Once they have exposed themselves you can nail them with the usual tactics, ie. "Are you equating Bush's tax cuts with Saddam's rape rooms?" or you can use a Lewinski-era quote from John Kerry, Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy on how Iraq definitely had WMD and we needed to take Saddam Hussein out. Now that the trigger is pulled and the tensioned spring is released, the mouse-in-question will likely notice the thick wire just before it snaps his or her neck. This is when the aforementioned defensive patterns sprout from the left.

They are, in no particular order, Deny, Deflect and De-emphasize.

First, deny. Most frequently, these are outright lies. Despite being presented with hard facts, the left will simply deny reality and continue stating their mantra. Although the 9/11 commission's final report claims that President Bush did not lie about Iraq's WMD claims, nor did his administration pressure our intelligence agencies, expect to hear the chant "Bush lied - babies died" outside the RNC convention later this month. Even though France, Germany and just about all of the administrations detractors in Congress are on record making many of the same claims about Iraq, somehow Bush knew more and took us to war knowingly on false pretenses. Of course in the next breath, the 'denyers' will also refer to Bush as a bumbling idiot.

Second, deflect. Another favorite defense when the left is caught being bad is to attack the attacker. For example, anyone who attacks the recently resigned Governor James McGreevey of NJ over his horrible judgment is instantly labeled a homophobe. What's that? You think Jesse Jackson is a shakedown artist? You racist! And who can forget the vast right wing conspiracy? Between now and November, any question of John Kerry's assertions from the campaign trail are merely vitriol from the mean-spirited Republican attack machine. A Vietnam vet who stood up on the DNC stage with Kerry? He's a hero. A Vietnam vet who calls Kerry unfit to be C-I-C? He's a stooge of the RNC.

To be fair, the left does not have a monopoly on 'deflect'. Recently, some Democrat politicians are scrambling to avoid the tag "liberal" like grade school kids squirming to survive in a game of dodgeball. Even some liberals not running for office are opting for the term 'independent' as a new moniker. A few questions about their viewpoints will indicate they are clearly liberal despite their claims otherwise - see "Deny".

Lastly there is de-emphasize. When outright lies are too lowbrow and attacking the attacker has become tiresome, there is basking in the warm fuzzy rationalization of being right, just because you are a liberal and your heart is in the right place - so it's OK. In a recent appearance on "Meet the Press", Sen. Robert 'Sheets' Byrd was interviewed about his book in which he claimed that Bush lied about WMD in Iraq. Furthermore, Byrd's book states that all the senators who voted (77-23) to authorize the president to attack Iraq were "weak". Tim Russert then asked Sen. Byrd if Kerry and Edwards, who voted for this authorization, were also weak. "No", Byrd replied, "they were misled." Another sweeeeet example of de-emphasize was an interview with Robert Kennedy on the Fox News show, Hannity and Colmes. Robert Kennedy was preaching the evils of SUV's and lecturing us on how we should all be taking the bus. At one point Kennedy was asked how often he had flown in a private jet. Red-faced, he replied that he did not see how that had any bearing in the matter. More examples of this hypocrisy: anti-gun US Sen. Dianne Feinstein who holds a rare California concealed weapon permit, because she needs one and you don't. Or the media grilling that Sen. Trent Lott took for praising former segregationist Strom Thurmond and the dearth of similar abuse for CT Sen. Chris Dodd after he praised former KKK member, Robert Byrd, calling him a "great leader".

Once one or more of these defensive patterns are engaged, you may as well stop arguing the current topic. You have reached the furthest possible point in your debate. However, I never expect to change a person's 'well thought out' ideology. Nor would I want to. All I ever hope to do is to put what I consider to be a 'not well thought out' position under the scrutiny of open discourse. Many times the thoughtful person will concede that their "facts" are merely their opinion. It is these debates I enjoy the most, in no small part because it helps me hone my own arguments. As for the lemmings who hold fast to their "facts"? The cliff is coming.

But while like me, you may enjoy engaging the left, be careful. They may call you Lard-Ass.

August 23, 2004, 11:43 AM
I got a real chuckle out of the "have a heart" trap story. It reminded me of a fellow I used to work for who was very proud of his vegetable garden; he would trap critters who came to feed using his "have a heart" trap, and then would toss the trap into his pond to drown the critter.

In fairness, though, it is not quite as weird as it sounds. With a "have a heart" trap, you don't have to worry about injuring a child or a pet.

August 23, 2004, 12:17 PM
A few weeks ago we had a mouse in the kitchen, and I caught it with a have-a-heart trap and released it near the river a mile from home. Before you call me a softy, here's why I did it:

I have no problem killing any pest, but I won't torture anything. The local hardware store had glue traps (no way I'm using one of those things, I've seen them in action) or plain old spring traps (my Dad used them, at least half the time the mouse had a broken back and was very much alive before he flushed it). I knew I'd be setting the trap and it might sit there for 12 hours before I get to empty it (the realities of my work schedule), and I wasn't putting any animal thru that. So I bought the humane trap. Once I had the little bugger it seemed odd to me to kill it after trapping it, so I just released it in an area where there aren't too many houses for it to infest.

Oh yes, the reason I had to do this is because my three cats were pretty pathetic about it. Two of them had it cornered in the kitchen and let it get away. The third one would probably have gotten it, but she was sleeping at the time. My wife informed me that either the mouse had to go or we were moving, since a trap is cheaper than moving....

August 23, 2004, 12:46 PM
Wierd, she's anti-gun, but pro-killing. Sort of the opposite of most people, I would imagine.

Next time, just say "Imagine a world without Guns!" And beat the thing to death with a mallet.


August 23, 2004, 01:04 PM
Odd. Why wouldn't she just drown it in a trash can? Is the trap that big?

August 23, 2004, 01:13 PM
Odd. Why wouldn't she just drown it in a trash can? Is the trap that big?

Better question: why kill a harmless, practically defenseless squirrel in the first place? It's one thing to kill an animal to put food on your table or to defend yourself from attack, but just offing them for the heck of it (and "lost birdseed," boo hoo, essentially falls into that category) is sick.

There are humane pest removal services that trap and relocate animals if they're causing genuine problems. (Btw, thousands of squirrels live around my area and cause no significant damage that I've ever seen or heard of.)

August 23, 2004, 01:46 PM
Odd. Why wouldn't she just drown it in a trash can? Is the trap that big?

Obviously, because things like killing squirrels and defending her home are jobs for other folks to do.

August 23, 2004, 02:00 PM

Reminds me of one of our secretaries. We had a bunch of mice at work, so this secretary orders these "humane" sticky traps and sets them out in the lunch area. Sure enough there are 2 mice goo'd up in one of the traps the next morning. She told me that she didn't like the snap kind because they are inhumane. "They just get stuck in these kind. "

I asked her what is she going to do with the mice now. It then sunk in that the mice would be slowly starving to death in a dumpster. I spared the mice that fate. She bought some snap-traps then.

August 23, 2004, 02:33 PM
Not to be contrary but, personally, I wouldn't have obliged her.

Guess it makes me a 'bad neighbor' but I'd have made it plain that if she wanted a captive animal which she considered a pest dead, she'd have to do it herself and deal with the contradiction to her professed ethical pose inherent in that action as best she might.

I have little patience with this sort of self-righteous ethical dualism, and nothing but pity and contempt for those who practice it. I refuse to be the instrument by which such persons seek to rationalize their hypocrisy.

I'm really fed-up with people who refuse to deal with, or even acknowledge, the fact that they suffer from an acute case of unintegrated values.

"I'll eat meat, but I could NEVER kill a poor, defenseless animal myself. I'm much too sensitive and noble for that."

"I don't want it around because it eats my birdseed. I'll use a nice, humane "Hav-a-heart" trap so I won't have to be responsible for injuring the fuzzy little beastie, but it's just much too inconvenient for me to take it off somewhere and release it. Killing it would be distastefull and make me a 'bad' person. I couldn't 'lower' myself to that level; I'm too good for that. You do it."

Nope. You want it done, you do it, you own it, and you deal with it. And by the way, I don't find it particularly flattering that you think that it's okay to ask me to do something for you that you think it would be wrong for YOU to do.

Just my $0.02, but everyone knows that I'm a surly old curmudgeon, insensitive and entirely devoid of altruism.

August 23, 2004, 03:04 PM
Next time bring your vepr/ar15/mak90/etc.

August 23, 2004, 03:07 PM
I only kill things that are dangerous and destructive. Rats, mice, snakes
scorpions, black widow, etc... Usually with poison or a shovel.

Things that are annoying opossums, squirrels, crows, pigeons I try to discourage by not having anything outside that they would want to eat or drink.

I don't have a problem with the destruction of pests but the lady should do it herself.

My suggestion is tell her to not feed the birds and racoons and let nature
take its course.

August 23, 2004, 03:23 PM
I have used "Hav-A-Heart" traps on squirrels many times; I relocate the critters to a nature conserve by my house.

My neighbor, on the other hand, uses the same trap to drown the things.

I don't have a problem with it either way.

As to why we do this, it goes WAY beyond birdseed. Our squirrels are Fox squirrels and they are large and aggressive. They will eat birdseed, of course, but also fruit, vegetables, and some flowers (particularly bulbs). In the winter they often gnaw bark and sometimes girdle trees which then die. They spend a lot of time breaking into attics and chewing wiring. They also chew the wiring in cars. We don't consider these "Disney Moments".

August 23, 2004, 10:23 PM
I use a dual pronged approach to pest control around my house. Mostly chipmunks, since they get in our foundation and walls, since it's an old house. They make lots of noise when I'm trying to sleep.

If they wind up in the have-a-heart trap, lucky them, they get relocated to the state game lands.

If they aren't going in the trap, unlucky them, because it's a .177 pellet to the head.

I haven't had many chipmunks around the house recently, so I think both methods work well.

August 24, 2004, 12:13 AM
Use a flamethrower next time! :evil:

August 24, 2004, 02:07 AM
lol... Did you hear about the guy who lit a spider on fire with lighter fluid, and it ran around and burnt up the store that he worked at?

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
August 24, 2004, 04:27 AM
Squirrels gotta make a living, too, y'know.

I'd have taken it to my place and turned it loose.


August 24, 2004, 08:41 AM
Two other kind of related stories.....from Uncle Tony's world...
We had a racoon constantly breaking into our house,during the day...I wanted the thing gone because we have cats and it was during the day and I was worried about rabies..anyway...wanting to do the "humane" thing we called the animal control guy"Barney Fife".....he says"don't worry ,does it look sick?".....I say"well in my vast vetenarian the hell do I know!" he shows up the next day(packing a 357 BTW...but I shouldn't worry:rolleyes: )..he puts a have a heart down and says to call him when he's caught.Next day we get the thing.We call Barney,he comes and takes it "far away".....3 days later..HE"S BAAAACK...the same damn coon.......I knew I should've shot it when I had the chance...
Sotry 2...
02:00....I see my wife's not in bed....go inot the hall...see my wife,step daughter(14) and step son(23) standing next to the refridge...step son holding a box and a broom..."this can't be good"I say to myself..."what's up?" step daughter says she felt something on her bed,turned on the light expecting to see one of our cats...sees a red squirrel...she screams,the squirrel screams,and takes off down the stairs...she wakes my wife up,who gets step son up(leaves me to sleep).....anyway the thing ends up behind the fridge on a my son says he's going to knock the thing down with the broom and catch it in the box.....bad idea,I say...hang on for a sec....I get my pellet pistol(old crossman that looks like a colt python)so I tell everyone to back off.......I take my first shot and hit the little bugger...he does a "jackie Gleason death move"(arms go out and he makes a little "ahhhhh" my mind anyway)so then I hit him again 3 more times and he falls to his death.After 2 couple seconds,we all start laughing when my wife says"That was like a Charles Bronson movie."
Leasons learned:kill pests,have a heart my butt.................:D

Ham Hock
August 24, 2004, 09:44 AM
[edited out]

August 24, 2004, 10:51 AM
Pick up the instruction book that comes with the have a heart trap some gives step by step instructions on how to drown, gas and bludgeon the critter to death!

August 24, 2004, 11:13 AM
Next time, just say "Imagine a world without Guns!" And beat the thing to death with a mallet.

Oh, man! That's hilarious!

Duke of Lawnchair
August 24, 2004, 12:58 PM
I have little patience with this sort of self-righteous ethical dualism, and nothing but pity and contempt for those who practice it. I refuse to be the instrument by which such persons seek to rationalize their hypocrisy.

Well said.

Linux&Gun Guy
August 24, 2004, 01:07 PM
Bring over a AR15 or such. If she asks what happened to the .22 say it was in the shop. After all she is anti gun and this might change her thinking. You should get her to kill her own pests IMHO.

I like squirrles. They are cute and friendly.

August 24, 2004, 01:53 PM
I have a friend who grows a lot of vegetables. They have to deal with all sorts of rodent-like creatures that eat their food, despite using railroad tie-and-wire mesh fencing. They use a couple of Rat-Zappers and a few traps. Some they shoot it-the-trap, some they drown, some they gas (apparently wasn't as humane as the other techniques). Yes, they kill those little fuzzy natural denizens of the forest.

Get over it.

August 24, 2004, 06:32 PM
Better question: why kill a harmless, practically defenseless squirrel in the first place? It's one thing to kill an animal to put food on your table or to defend yourself from attack, but just offing them for the heck of it (and "lost birdseed," boo hoo, essentially falls into that category) is sick.

There are humane pest removal services that trap and relocate animals if they're causing genuine problems. (Btw, thousands of squirrels live around my area and cause no significant damage that I've ever seen or heard of.)

Ground squirrels, while cute, are enormous pests. Before the area around it was developed, my moms place had these damn things tunneling under the foundation, chewing through the walls, etc. I couldn't kill 'em fast enough. I started with my Ruger 10/22, but as soon as I fired once, they'd run for their hidey-holes, and stay for ten or twenty minutes. I got a case of Gopher Gassers and loaded up the Winchester Defender 12 gauge. Light a Gasser, stuff it down a hole, follow up with a wad of newspaper, then watch. The smoke starts coming out of other holes, and then the squirrels bolt, and get a dose of bird shot :D

August 24, 2004, 10:00 PM
This lady needs a GOOD mouser cat. Some cats are just better than others. I have three cats and one is what I call a GOOD mouser. It will see a mouse and in less tan 45 seconds that mouse is dead and swallowed.(Ive timed it) I saw something last week that I could hardly believe. I went out to get in the truck to go to work and there 2 feet from the door of the truck was my cat with the death grip of a lion on the neck of a large gray squirrel. It knew it was going to have to move for me to get in the truck and it never let up on that grip and waddled away with that squirrel, This was a large adult squirrel.:D

August 25, 2004, 02:06 AM
I can attest to the varmint status of the grey squirrels. I have a 25 hp evenrude outboard, about 1978 or so, the newer style cover. I went to get it running a few years ago and a piece of dog food fell out. I took the cover off and dog food poured out. All told I got half a five gallon bucket of dog food out of that motor. It seems that when the garage door was left open the local grey squirrel had been hording food for the winter.... in my motor. Some university needed to hire that squirrel because there is no humanly possible way to stuff that much dog food into that small of a space.

Zach S
August 25, 2004, 09:42 AM
Personally, I hate squirrels. But I'm not about to shoot one in a trap, well, I may consider shooting it because of the irony, but only for a few seconds.

OTOH, I hate squirrels. I'm not about to bash someone over shooting one that's in a "have a heart trap," and even though I wouldnt do it, I still find it kinda funny...

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