[tech]

Hi,
I just got a model 58- nothing in excellent condition and was wondering when it was made SN n235xxx. Any info on this would be helpfull.

Thanks,
Mike

[Erich]

I can't help you out on a born-on date, but I can tell you that you've got one of the more sought-after Smiths these days. The 58 was a M&P (fixed sight) configured .41 mag. It was issued by a lot of police departments in the '60s (San Antonio, for one) and was sort of pushed by Elmer Keith as the all-around police pistol. (Elmer and a lot of others thought the .357 - with the bullets of the time - was too wimpy for reliable man-stopping.) This was sort of a "no BS/tough guy" gun.

It's featured in the L. Neil Smith libertarian sci-fi detective story The Probability Broach, as well! :)

You might post over at the S&W forum to find out when it was made. You'll make some folks jealous.

http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/cgi-bin/sandwcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true

[1911Tuner]

It's junk! No good at all! It'll fall apart the first time you shoot it!

Send it to me immediately so you won't be embarassed by being seen
at the range with such a POS.

You'll thank me one day...:D

[Ala Dan]

The book says that the Smith & Wesson model 58 was introduced
in July of 1964, at S/N S256500.

But on page 294, the S&W serial number range ran like this:
S232000 to S235999 ran from 1963 to 1964

S 256500 would have fallen between 1964-1965, so which
is correct. Guess you need to place a call to Mr. Roy Jinks
historian for Smith & Wesson?

At any rate, you got yourself a first class handgun. I'm sure
you will enjoy it; however factory ammo is quite expensive.

*Source- The Standard Catalog Of Smith & Wesson 2nd
edition, by Supica & Nahas

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[tech]

Thanks guys, this is one of the finest revolvers I have ever seen. The blue is deep and the trigger is crisp. They had it advertised as excellent condition, but I cant see that it has ever been fired. No turn line no, case indentations on the plate behind the cylinder. I am gonna miss it, Tuner you watch for the mail man it will be along one of these days.

Mike

[Al Thompson]

:D :D

[Brian Williams]

I would gladly trade you a great 27-2 for it, I would like one very much, they are a great gun and Dan has the date right. Besdies Tuner has enough trouble with 1911 and collies...:D

[tech]

Sorry Brian but Tuner offered to save me from any humiliation or personal injury already. And to make that sacrifice for a fellow forum member says a lot. I hope to see what kind of ammo it likes this weekend so I can send some along with it. Watch the mail Tuner.

Mike

[schromf]

I have had a model 58 for about 30 years give or take. I bought mine new always has been my real favorite pistol, years and more pistols have come along its still one of my 3 favorites. Take care of it, it will last a lifetime at least.

About fodder, factory ammo costs a lot, my personal favorite is the Federal, followed by a tie with Winchester, and Remington, the PMC is junk.

I never really buy factory ammo any more, and my guess is that means not in the last 8-10 years. I reload this is a caliber that it pays to do so.

My favorite HP load is with Sierra 210 gr with AA#9, the Nosler bullets are just as good. Your powder list is AA#9, 2400, W296, and H110, all of these are great powders, velocity goes to H110 and W296. In my 41's accuracy is best with the #9 and I don't give up much on velocity.

In lead bullets I like Williams 215 gr and Unique, don't load them real hot, they are extremely accurate, if you do your job they will stay in the 10 ring always. About my caution on not loading them hot, heed it unless you like scrubbing lead, the extra 100 fps isn't worth the scrubbing, I have been there done that in my younger days. I really am not a fan of the factory lead bullets, my handloads have always been better, more accurate, and yes even using unique cleaner.

One item you might look for is a new set of grips, the stock grips are a little small for this pistol. I have a set of matching Rosewoods that were custom for model 57, and 29's, they fit peerfectly. I don't know if they are still available, if not a set of Heretts, like Jordon Troopers would be my next choice.

It amazes me the evolution this gun has gone through over the years, first it was unknown, then it picked up a modest following, which are pretty die hard fan group, then back out of flavor and they could be bought for spit, if you could find one, lately these have really got back there value, and are getting collectable and pricey. Go figure, I wish I had bought two years ago.

[tech]

Schromf, I wish I had somewhere in my house to set up a bench and start reloading, possibly when my oldest goes off to college in a couple of years. Its funny you saying pmc is junk I figured as much but the gun shop only had that and Winchester Silvertips.
I got a box of each and am going to try like heck to get a chance to run them through this weekend. You know when I pick up a gun it either speaks to me or not. Some things obvious, the way it points and feels in the hand, also other things, not quite discernable. I will say some only whisper and I can’t quite put my finger on what I like about them. This model 58 screams at me! I was not quite sure what I was buying but I love what I got. Now to get into the woods to do some shooting.

Mike

[1911Tuner]

I'm gonna hold my breath 'til it gets here. We must hide that awful thing.
I'll stick it into the deep, dark recesses of my vault so that it can never hurt or humiliate anybody.:D

[Old Fuff]

Tuner:

Your intentions may be good ... :uhoh: :evil: but your vault isn't good enough for this. Anybody can crack a cheap vault ...:neener:

On the other hand I have a cave ...:D :D :D

[1911Tuner]

Hands off Fuff! I saw it first! It's mine mine mine mine mine.....
MINE! I've got a vault IN a cave guarded by a Pit Bull/Rottie/Bull mastiff mix that weighs 300 pounds and he thinks MIM grip safeties are dog biscuits...



:D

[Old Fuff]

>> I've got a vault IN a cave guarded by a Pit Bull/Rottie/Bull mastiff mix that weighs 300 pounds and he thinks MIM grip safeties are dog biscuits... <<

Ah ...... On second thought ..... :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

Maybe I should let you keep it. :D

[Andrew Wyatt]

Let the Tuner win.

[Bullet Bob]

What were we talking about? Oh yeah, S&W 58's.

If you have access to the 1995 Gun Digest (your local library may have it) there's a pretty good article on these on page 5, I think.

[schromf]

Shotgun News had a write up a couple of months ago also.

[tech]

Thanks guys you have been very helpful. I also think tuner needs a big round of applause for being the selfless gentleman he is.

Mike

[Brian Williams]

Hey tuner if you put this way back in your safe it might find the others you have back there and who knows they might mate!!!!



Can I have any offspring?....preferably the runt...

[surfinUSA]

All of these responses and not a single picture?

[schromf]

OK, OK I thought I had posted them before:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/137369.jpg

Top: Model 657
Middle: Model 57
Bottom: Model 58

[tech]

Beautiful.....


Mike

[Iggy]

I bought a NIB model 58 when I became a LEO right after Custer went thru.
Paid $81.00 and the dealer threw in a box of shells because he knew I couldn't afford them.

That's the only box of factory ammo that ever went through the gun.

Took me 6 months to pay it off on a cop's wages.

That gun and I have seen the elephant and we're still here.

We both have some wear and scars, but we earned them and wear them with pride.

[mete]

The M58 was designed as a cops gun and was designed to use the nonmagnum police load ~1000 fps. Seems that many police departments that tried it never heard that there was a police load !! and rejected it as too much recoil for the average cop with magnum loads.

[dinosaur]

Mine along with one of my 4" 57s. If I'm not mistaken the San Antonio P.D. was the only large agency to adopt the M58.

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

As the Department rangemaster and Weapons Instructor my department gave me a pair of new ones to test and have the officers try.

After having only one of them tested the Dept decided to let each officer decide what they wanted at their own expense. So I bought both of them and one is still brand new. They are pictured on another thread so I cannot post them again.

It is in the thread "Smith Revives the Model 58"

[tech]

mete, thats pretty cool never heard that. Kinda like a .41 special?


Mike

[grendelbane]

IMHO the model 58 is the finest combat wheelgun ever made!

Too bad no one makes fine combat ammunition for it. Hunters are well served by the .41 loads available today. For SD, I think something else is in order. I have loaded the 200 grain Remington JHP's from Midway to around 1000fps. This gives mild recoil, and all the accuracy any one could ever want. However, the jacket is a little too tough to give reliable expansion at that low a velocity.

An 190 grain bullet would match the .45 230 grain bullet for sectional density. Load it just barely north of 1000 fps, with a thin, serrated or scalloped jacket, and a honking big hollow point. This would be a perfect match for the perfect wheelgun.;)

[thatguy]

N 235,000 was made about 1974. I always thought the 58 was of limited usefulness. It's big, heavy, factory ammo is very pricey, and the fixed sights are a problem on a sporting gun. I bought one in 1989 for $189 mostly as a curiosity. I haven't shot it much because I always had more enjoyable guns to use for plinking and such. I wish I had a hundred of them so I could sell them at current prices. Apparently a lot of people have decided they really want one. I can't see paying $500-600 for one but that seems to be what they bringing. Go figure. One thing I really don't understand is why S&W doesn't start making these old revolvers that command such high prices. I bet they could easily sell a couple thousand each if they made a 3.5 inch 27 and a 58 again. They would have to be like the older ones, though.

[grendelbane]

It's big, heavy, factory ammo is very pricey, and the fixed sights are a problem on a sporting gun.

Yes, its big. N-frames are big. It has to be big, because it fires 6 big cartridges. It is not heavy when compared to other big revolvers. The weight is necessary to manage recoil.

Factory ammunition is indeed pricey. Not noticeably pricier than any other big-bore revolver cartridges, however. There is a conspicuous lack of selection of loadings for which this revolver was intended. Hand loading reduces both of these problems.

The fixed sights are not a problem, they are a blessing. Mine shoots to point of aim at 25 yards. I don't have to worry about them getting knocked around or broken. Tritium sights were not available when the model 58 was introduced.

Indeed, the model 58 is not a sporting gun. It is a service gun. It is what I want when I don't want to give the opposition a sporting chance. If I want to play a sport, I will choose another model.

FWIW, I agree with you about current prices being high, and S&W not taking advantage of that. A model 658 would be great! I purchased mine for about what you gave for yours. It is definitely not for sale.

[thatguy]

Yes, I realize that the 58 is an N frame and that it shoots a big cartridge. That's why it was never terribly popular with the cops. Romantic notions to the contrary N frame Smiths were never popular service pistols for the exact reason I mentioned, the weight. They were carried for many years because that's what was available. Note that as soon as the K frame magnum was introduced sales of the N frames to cops fell to nearly ziltch. Plus, magnum calibers larger than .357 were mostly considered too powerful or too violent on recoil for police use. Also, with so many women (with small hands) joining the force starting in the 1970s trying to push an N frame revolver was suicidal for sales. Besides, the hi-cap semi-autos were putting all wheelguns out of business for police use by this time, anyway.

I agree that fixed sights are great for a service pistol, but it does mean that the gun will likely shoot to point of aim with only one load (if you're lucky, I have seen some that wouldn't hit true with any load tried). But the vast majority of these old 58s are no longer used as service pistols. They are now owned by people using them for sport and recreational shooting and as I said, at this point the fixed sights become something of a bother unless you find the one load that works and can live with just that one load.

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Smith 58 owners are excellent customers for my Fitz gun fighter grips that help shooters to really control the pistol recoil and many have also My Ca- Saeco 4 cavity 220 grain molds and create accurate defensive loads while on their hunt where the combination is used for deer in the lower 48 and for moose and bear which is winter food in Alaska.

By loading your own ammo to the point of aim to the distance desired, the fixed sights are no problem at all on the targets desired and the 58 can handle some rough and tumble without damage to delicate paper punching target sights on the trail for dinner and I love my personal 2 pairs.

Fitz