trade my glock?!?


PDA






walking arsenal
August 26, 2004, 12:14 PM
Ive been reading a lot about glocks going kaboom, ive read a lot about the .357 sig round being not so great.

I have a GLOCK in .357 sig


truthfully i question the validity of these kaboom reports, i think that if it was a serious problem glock would be doing a recall, theyve got to be ammo based problems.

But, ive read that they have a problem with the unsupported barrels and bullets being inset after reloading in the .40's. so if the .40's are having problems then i worry about the .357 which is based off the .40.:uhoh:

maybe this is all nonsense though and the glock haters are crawling out of the wood work to take a shot at a good pistol, i may be wrong though.

And if i am wrong then maye i should trade for somthing else?
What do you guys think?

If you enjoyed reading about "trade my glock?!?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jed
August 26, 2004, 12:56 PM
It could be an excellent idea to trade it, but for what?

A pistol that one fears is no good!!

Kabooms have occured in other guns and calibers of semiautos in different than Glock brands.

I have a Glock 23. I am not worried about it kabooming since I keep the
barrel clean, do not shoot lead rounds thru it, or shoot reloads thru it.
Sticking with factory ammo as suggested is a good preventive measure.

I also am not worried about any of my other brands kabooming even though I reload ammo for them.

Based on the caliber of the gun and the Glock design, I would say keep it as a carry or home defense gun. Look for something else to shoot a lot of rounds thru.

Other opinions will be different from mine and are worth reading.

CZ52GUY
August 26, 2004, 02:19 PM
If you fear it, trade it OR take away the "rationale" for your fear which is based on the barrel.

My understanding is that KKM barrels resolve this "problem" permanently.

http://glockmeister.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/1_3/products_id/4

If other than KB fear, you are proficient with the weapon and enjoy it, I'd swap the barrel and put the fear behind.

If you just want a change, than go for the trade...but somewhere you will read that someone had a catastrophic failure with just about every autoloader made...as has been discussed elsewhere, the sheer volume of Glocks in the marketplace improves the odds that somewhere someone will have experienced an issue that someone has heard about. I'm sure my favorite piece, CZ-75, has had some issues...but since the market penetration is so much less, the publicity surrounding the issues is much less.

There is some "piling on" effect by some who simply don't like Glocks...why they feel it necessary to go beyond the realm of common sense is beyond me. At the same time, there are Glock "cultists" who would tell you Glocks can do no wrong and at all opportunities engage in irrational blame shifting (too often the operator is the target). That's not productive either.

Glocks come with caveats and trade-offs. They can be dealt with, but you don't have to deal with them if you don't want to.

Choose well.

Safe shooting,

CZ52'

walking arsenal
August 26, 2004, 03:32 PM
what does the kkm barrel do that the glock factory barrel doesnt? are pros and cons to each?

jed
August 26, 2004, 03:35 PM
Well said CZ. You don't have to put up with anything you don't want to.

Life is too short to spend it on unnecessary worry!!

Buying another bbl. may not get you by either. Now you have one questionable gun and a bbl to sale. It just keeps escalating.

I cut my losses and move on. This is what is best for me. It may not be what is best for you. My only warning about trading is that it gets addicting just like shooting!! He he. I never planned to be a trader, but it just worked out that way and it created a lot of fun plus new experiences.

Good luck.

Black Snowman
August 26, 2004, 04:04 PM
KKM is has a fully supported and somewhat tighter chamber. For a target and range gun this means superior accuracy and reduced chance of a KB! if maintained.

In the field that means there's less room for debris to clear itself possibly causing a failure to go to battery or a pressure spike.

I don't have one to compare to but one of the advantages of the .357 SIG was the bottle neck cartridge reduced the need for ramping and throating allowing a better supported chamber than a .40 S&W that would still feed extremely reliably.

I have over 4000 reloads through my Glock .40 on the original barrel with out a Ka-Boom. None were lead bullets.

I've had a ka-boom. Reloaded a rifle round with the wrong powder and it destroyed my Century FrankenFAL. Luckily I wasn't seriously hurt.

Kabooms are something to be wary of, but not deserving of paranoia.

If you don't feel comfortable with the gun, I'm sure plenty of people would be willing to give you a fair price for it.

Andrew Wyatt
August 26, 2004, 04:13 PM
get a 1911. :rolleyes:
















;)

walking arsenal
August 26, 2004, 05:47 PM
If i wanted a gun that i would have to send to the smiths to get it to function right out of the box i would. :D

CZ52GUY
August 26, 2004, 07:04 PM
Do you feel like you are proficient with your Glock?

Do you take good care of it (chamber maintenance being essential)?

Do you feel it important to be able to shoot reloads or lead ammunition?

My Glocks eat Federal, CCI Blazer Brass, S&B, Winchester White Box just fine. For more serious stuff, I've got some Federal "Tactical" JHP's (I've tested Winchester JHP's also without incident). Given that I've been able to use several brands of affordable practice ammo', I keep them clean, and I have a hankering for a KKM for my G35 anyway (which is likely to get the most use), I'm fine with risk tolerance on Glocks because I'm using my head to minimize the risk.

If you don't really enjoy shooting it, KB doesn't matter...time for a new blaster.

If you can't be bothered with scrubbing the chamber...want something you can clean every 3rd or 4th or 5th range session...maybe you want to consider something else.

If you need to be able to shoot lead (some older ranges require it) or want to feel comfortable reloading...again, the trade makes sense.

However, if you are good with it, take good care of it, and can make do with multiple good/affordable choices of ammo' for practice and carry...I'd not trade it based on the bad experiences of a few UNLESS, your risk tolerance is so low that you have lost confidence in your piece.

There are pictures of KB's of just about every platform out there on the web. Not just Glocks...but only you can decide how much risk you can live with.

Stay safe,

CZ52'

Tecolote
August 26, 2004, 08:27 PM
If you're worried about KB! than trade your Glock. Lack of confidence in your tools will affect your performance. Why not go with a Glock 19 or 26? You'll have all the Glock features in a "no KB! worry" package.:)

JohnKSa
August 26, 2004, 10:08 PM
I believe that Dean Speir's site features some kB! pics involving a KKM barrel...

jimmyjoebob
August 26, 2004, 10:35 PM
as for why Glock won't issue a recall that is simple, liability,. once they admit it then there will be a flood of lawsuits from those who have had their guns go boom! Millions were sold, get a new barrel, or get a SIG, all your fears will be resolved.

walking arsenal
August 26, 2004, 11:05 PM
whatever happened to glocks being able to go thousands of rounds without being cleaned? keep it spotless and you wont have a problem??
whatever happened to the cover it in mud, run it over with a truck, freeze it, leave it in a river and shoot it glock?

auschip
August 26, 2004, 11:14 PM
Being dirty has nothing to do with a leaded barrel. The way it was explained to me, polygonal rifling cuts the bullet just a bit more. Because of that, if you have a softer bullet (lead), more will be left in the barrel. If too much is in the barrel, then when you touch off the controlled explosion (ie pull the trigger) it goes boom. The same thing happens to careless duck hunters with fair regularity. They aren't paying attention plug the barrel with mud, then when that canvas back flies over boom they split the barrel, blow the gun, and generally kb their pretty scatter gun.

The bottom line, is that EVERY gun will fall down go boom under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

walking arsenal
August 26, 2004, 11:22 PM
ok, i get that, whats all this garb about unsuported barrels? does the .357 sig glock have the same problem as the .40s?

bad_dad_brad
August 26, 2004, 11:32 PM
Stick with the Glock 9mm or .45 cal.

Both of these pistols are designed for the cartridge and are not in betweens.

Personally I don't think much of the .40 SW or the .357 SIG.

My ultimate cartridge handgun calibers are:

.22 LR for plinking

.32 ACP for mouse guns

9mm Luger for slimline and high power carry

.45 ACP for ultimate knockdown.

All the rest are crap and inbetween. Just my two cents.

JohnKSa
August 26, 2004, 11:44 PM
whats all this garb about unsuported barrelsWhy doesn't someone here who has designed at least one commercially successful pistol answer this man's question? :D :D

Ok, seriously, the Glock chambers are cut a bit larger, and have a pretty generous cutout for the feedramp. These features increase the reliability of the pistol but mean that it is less tolerant of low quality ammunition.

It's a trade-off. My P89 has a tight chamber--if I start feeding it poor quality or out-of-spec ammo, (like A-merc) it just won't chamber consistently. The out-of-spec rounds jam the gun. In the Glock, they are more likely chamber because the chamber is cut a bit larger. If the brass is strong, it's not an issue. But if the brass is cheap and weak and/or there's some other problem like excessive barrel leading or bullet setback, sooner or later something's going to give.

If you don't reload and you don't buy cheapo ammunition you will almost certainly never have a problem.

Glock put these warnings in the manual, but American shooters were used to seeing this type of disclaimer and dismissed them as typical lawyerese. That wasn't so smart and a bunch of people have either learned a lesson or are hacked off at Glock.

From Dean Speir's website:
"Glocks are good.
Glocks are great.
Jus' don't shoot reloads
like the manuals state."

I would paraphrase a bit:
"Glocks are good.
Glocks are great.
Just shoot high quality commercial ammo with jacketed bullets
like the manuals state."

Ok, a poet I'm not... :D

Powderman
August 27, 2004, 01:57 AM
I own two Glocks. Both are .40--the 22 and the 27.

By conservative estimate, I have fired over 10K rounds through both pistols, cumulatively. Out of those, about 1000 were either store purchased new, or issued duty ammo. The rest were reloads.

I have NEVER had a kaboom.

I have NEVER had a bulged case in either gun.

Neither of them have EVER failed to go bang. This is in mud, sand, and snow. Not to mention that fine Pacific Northwest sunshine :)

Majic
August 27, 2004, 03:05 AM
Recall??? How dare you speak of such. Just read the advertisements and see that Glocks are "Perfection".
They will do a quiet upgrade though. :rolleyes:

g21forme
August 27, 2004, 06:05 PM
Recall 2.5 million glocks because 15 rejects don't know how to reload?
The reports of glocks kb'ing are greatly exagerated but if you think they kb all the time then produce some proof.

walking arsenal
August 27, 2004, 07:11 PM
Ive spent the last couple of days looking into this Glock Kaboom buisnees and heres what ive come up with, see what you think.

The .40 cal glocks KB because.

The cases are sensitive to repeated chamberings. the bullet gets pushed back a little each time they are chambered. this bumps up the pressure more than the case can handle.

people shoot reloaded ammo through them. every time a round is reloaded the case weakens a bit, couple this with the above reason and i could see a problem happening. from what the reloading guys say they dont crimp the bullets in very much when they reload.

Lead bullets or cheap ammo. what cheap ammo is im not sure, no one has really named any brands off yet.

All in all from what ive read, heard, been told; if you shoot quality factory reloads you wont have a problem. the exception seems to be that batch of federal hydrashocks.

the problem seems to run around the .40s but have been seen in the other calibers.

Angus Podgorney
August 27, 2004, 07:33 PM
Next time ask the questions before you get a gun.

prezzz
August 27, 2004, 07:38 PM
ive read a lot about the .357 sig round being not so great.

What have you read about the 357 Sig that was no favorable? All I've read is praise for it.

I quote Massad Ayoob who is regarded as a very respected and is sometime refered to as an ultimate authority on lethal force. "Accuracy is superb, power is undeniable, and recoil is controlled in trained hands. The .357 Sig is an excellent cartridge, and more police departments are adopting it. Personal choice? With it's superb history of stopping powerand it's excellent accuracy, I don't think there can be a contest."

From Ammolab:

"He has tested several thousand rounds of the usual 9, 40, 45, etc. When he tested the 357 Sig Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Saber ammo, it did something only the 10mm Silvertip has been able to do. Both of these rounds cracked the top plate that holds the gelatin blocks in place during testing. It’s obvious that these 357 Sig rounds dump more energy into 12 – 14 inches of gelatin than most other rounds he has tested.

When he reinforced the top plates, the same two 357 Sig rounds mentioned above then cracked the lower plate. The best 9mm loads, such as the Ranger 127gr +P+ barely created a ripple in the gelatin in comparison. The 357sig can pump more destructive energy into that 12-15 inches of penetration (see above regarding breaking gelatin plates and even knocking gelatin blocks off the table), than other duty calibers, except for the 10mm caliber."

g21forme
August 27, 2004, 08:08 PM
sooooooo all your information comes from internet forums of people who knew a guy who saw a video of a glock kb and this becomes fact written in stone? I know there have been glocks that have kb'ed but you can't name a manufacturer who hasn't had one and to spew all this nonsense with nary a fact to be found is just laughable.

mrapathy2000
August 27, 2004, 08:18 PM
dont worry bout kaboom to much.

hit the reload/handload section of glocktalk. read the post.

take out your 357sig barrel and put a round in the chamber look for noticeable gap where the feedramp is. my understanding is they gave the 357sig better chamber support than the 40.

btw has been reports of 45acp models kabooming.

good solution is aftermarket barrel with chamber support. dont let a cartridge be inserted into the chamber repeatedly with the slide pushing it home to prevent setback. make sure barrel is clear. check brass before loading for defects.

dont shoot lead with stock barrel.

many reasons to KB.

prezzz
August 27, 2004, 08:19 PM
sooooooo all your information comes from internet forums of people who knew a guy who saw a video of a glock kb and this becomes fact written in stone? I know there have been glocks that have kb'ed but you can't name a manufacturer who hasn't had one and to spew all this nonsense with nary a fact to be found is just laughable.

I assume your post isn't directed towards me.

g21forme
August 27, 2004, 08:36 PM
No prezz it was just an afterthought but I apologize if you took any offense or thought it was directed to you I was just in a little rant mode.:)

prezzz
August 27, 2004, 09:38 PM
No problem bud. :) Your post just came right after mine.

Majic
August 27, 2004, 10:09 PM
I quote Massad Ayoob who is regarded as a very respected if not the ultimate authority on handguns.
:rolleyes:

walking arsenal
August 27, 2004, 10:25 PM
"sooooooo all your information comes from internet forums of people who knew a guy who saw a video of a glock kb and this becomes fact written in stone?"

Yup, that and.......... 3 glock armorers, a gunsmith, and a rep from the glock plant in georgia.

I ask these questions because SOME of the people on here know more about this stuff than i do. I also ask because i have a thougt on somthing or THINK i know the answer to somthing but want second opinions. i like diversty in opinions

walking arsenal
August 27, 2004, 10:29 PM
"What have you read about the 357 Sig that was no favorable? All I've read is praise for it. "

me to mostly, the one i caught was somthing about ammo makers super gluing the bullet into the casing because they dont seat for enough in. perhaps another myth that needs debunking?

prezzz
August 27, 2004, 10:40 PM
Posted by Majic:


:rolleyes:

:p

Old Dog
August 28, 2004, 03:23 PM
With the sheer numbers of Glocks out there, I'd submit their track record is pretty doggone good (and I'm by no means a Glock fan although I do occasionally pack a G 23 and shoot it well). As noted, a lot of problems really are simply maintenance issues ...
Massad Ayoob "the ultimate authority" on handguns? Hmmm...

Tamara
August 28, 2004, 04:01 PM
Stick with the Glock 9mm or .45 cal.

Both of these pistols are designed for the cartridge and are not in betweens.

That is incorrect. The G21 is a punched-out G20; 10mm is the original caliber of the large-frame G20/21/29/30 series.

prezzz
August 28, 2004, 05:06 PM
After a couple of raised eyebrows, I stand corrected.

Massad Ayoob is sometimes refered to as the master of "Lethal Force".......Not Ultimate Authority of Handguns.

I was close! :p

Texshooter
August 29, 2004, 12:18 AM
Trade? Yes, before your next heartbeat.

walking arsenal
August 29, 2004, 09:13 PM
texshooter

Why?

Quad Fifty
August 31, 2004, 05:07 AM
When all of this "kaboom" business started back in early 2003, I traded my Glock 30 into a gun shop and bought a Springfield 1911 because the serial numbers fell into that "range" of Glocks with potential "kabooms." Got talked into it by a dedicated "Glock hater," too.
Worst firearm's mistake I've ever made in my life - the Springfield was a POS, and even after 500 rounds continued to jam, stovepipe, fail to feed, etc., etc., at least once every magazine, and that was with HARDBALL FMJ. The G30 I'd traded never failed me even once, no matter what I shot out of it, JHP, Blunt nose, FMJ, gravel, rocks & assorted little pebbles...(okay, making the last three up, but I wouldn't have been suprised if...).
Bottom line is I wish I had that G30 back. Needless to say, I got rid of that Springfield, and now have a Kimber 1911. But even my Kimber couldn't hold a candle in the reliability department to that G30, at least for the first 200 rounds. My Kimber is totally reliable NOW, but it took a "breaking in" period to get it that way - the G30 was "broke in" and TOTALLY reliable from day one.
Just my .02 cents.

RichardinNC
August 31, 2004, 08:52 PM
trade my glock?!?
Ive been reading a lot about glocks going kaboom, ive read a lot about the .357 sig round being not so great.

I have a GLOCK in .357 sig

maybe this is all nonsense though and the glock haters are crawling out of the wood work to take a shot at a good pistol, i may be wrong though.


No, I don't think you are wrong. I'd say that they really are crawling out of the wood work. Glock and Kel-Tec bashing are two favorite internet sports - often by people who have limited information and nothing better to do with their time. Glocks are regarded by their owners as tools to be used - a fighting gun that also lends itself to recreational and competitive shooting. You will hardly ever find a Glock with nickel plating, engine turning or some other equally hideous form of alteration. This KB hysteria amounts to nothing more than the proverbial f**t in a whirlwind. Shoot and enjoy your Glock but if you have bought into this paranoia you should get rid of it. Maybe buy a $1,200 1911 and spend the rest of the year and the next getting it to run properly. My Glock and Kel-Tecs are just fine and I enjoy shooting them all.

gulogulo1970
August 31, 2004, 09:39 PM
Hey I love Glocks, but sell it off if it makes you nervous. It is bad feeling if you can't trust a gun 100%. Get something that you will be confident using.

Majic
September 1, 2004, 04:46 AM
First this:
No, I don't think you are wrong. I'd say that they really are crawling out of the wood work. Glock and Kel-Tec bashing are two favorite internet sports
Then a few sentences later this:
Maybe buy a $1,200 1911 and spend the rest of the year and the next getting it to run properly.
The other favorite sport for internet bashing. :neener:

RichardinNC
September 1, 2004, 10:25 AM
Majic

After rereading my post and yours, I guess you caught me at my own game, so to speak. I probably should have said that all brands have people who don't like and/or understand them and it often turns from factual discussion to outright superstition and misinformation.

Proves that you can take proven brands like Glock, Kel-Tec and the various 1911 models and make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I just hate to see people turned around because of posters who have no real knowledge of the brands they are discussing.:)

TheDutchman
September 1, 2004, 01:38 PM
Hell keep it. Glocks aren't that bad but are prone to break or kb just like any other gun


PS. if you do trade it get a Browning HI power

dairycreek
September 1, 2004, 01:54 PM
I have nothing bad to say about Glocks per se. I have owned a number of them, shot thousands of rounds through them, and have never had a bad experience with any of them at any time. In my personal experience they are fine, reliable handguns.

But I don't own any now and do not plan to purchase any in the future.

I have never, never been able to feel comfortable with the Glock Safe Action safety system. In fact, I have always been very uncomfortable with it.

I just cannot own and use a gun with which I do not feel absolutely comfortable. No matter what its performance, it stays on my mind. So, I don't own any Glocks.

All guns have some kind, or other, of problems. SOME Glocks have gone kaboom and there is no doubt about that. Does not mean the YOUR Glock will ever have a problem. But if it is on your mind and undermines your confidence/ or causes you to worry about the gun then, by all means, move on to something in which you CAN have personal confidence.

Hope things work out. Good shooting;)

If you enjoyed reading about "trade my glock?!?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!