need a barrel suggestion


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Snaps
August 26, 2004, 10:49 PM
It's going to go on a remington 700 reciever with a mcmillen stock. I'm not too sure about brand or what contour I need but it's a target gun. I looked at hart barrels but their site says they're stainless. I do'nt want stainless because I want something that can be parkerized and blued.

ANy ideas? i'm pretty much trying ot copy the USMC sniper rifle but I can't find the schnieder barrel they use and I'm not 100% sure if the contour of different companies will be the same.

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nico
August 26, 2004, 11:57 PM
why couldn't a stainless barrel be parkerized? Isn't it just a plastic coating?

ocabj
August 27, 2004, 12:00 AM
You can make a stainless steel barrel look black. It's called bead blasted matte. The barrel maker can do this for you.

dakotasin
August 27, 2004, 12:02 AM
hart, lilja, shilen, pac-nor, krieger, etc... doesn't really matter much. guess you could check out a benchrest equipment roster and see who is winning the most recently. for my money, i'd go lilja... but the others make nice tubes, too.

Jim Watson
August 27, 2004, 12:02 AM
Nope, parkerizing is a phosphate surface conversion like bluing is an oxide surface conversion, the iron chemically reacts. Stainless is too unreactive.

You could have a stainless barrel dark coated, and you might equal but will not beat Hart quality. Why is it important to you that you match the Marine brand names? Contour is what they turn it to on a lathe and that is up to you... and your checkbook.

ocabj
August 27, 2004, 12:17 AM
BTW: http://www.snipershide.com/print_articles/pm40a3.html

Schneider barrel info: http://sst.benchrest.com/schneider.html and http://www.zediker.com/books/ar15/extras.html

If you're trying to build an M40A3 clone, you'd probably be better off hiring someone to build it for you (ie: GA Precision). The gunsmithing involved is going to be pretty extensive and to match the M40A3 quality, you'd want professionals to build it for you (short of hiring active Quantico Marine armorers).

How much you got saved up for this project? The US Optics scope alone is something I'd have to set aside money for each month for a long while.

Barrelmaker
August 27, 2004, 01:06 AM
PM sent.

Snaps
August 27, 2004, 09:56 PM
How much you got saved up for this project? The US Optics scope alone is something I'd have to set aside money for each month for a long while.
A few grand and I've alread got access to all hte equipment I need. I'm thinking putting three rounds through one hole @ 100yrd. I'll worry about the scope in a little while. Either the unertl or I may even end up going with the nightforce.

The reason for going with the USMC for whoever asked, I recently got out and just want to do it for the hell of it.

mete
August 27, 2004, 11:36 PM
You can parkerize a stainless barrel but instead of the black color you get a good nonreflective grey color.

schromf
August 28, 2004, 01:10 AM
While you can't practically parkerize stainless steel, you can have it bead blasted, and black teflon coated. This is a very good looking finish and it has the pluses of corrosion restistance.

Barrels: There are a lot of very good quality rifle barrels, most of the big names were previuously listed. I didn't see your caliber listed but I am assuming you are looking at a 308 or at least a 30 cal., as you are talking a M40A3.

Before I spent a lot of time chasing barrel manufacturers I would decide whether you want a cut rifled barrel or a button rifled barrel, it will narrow down your looking a lot.

I just went through a very similar evolution I want a M40A1. In the end I bought a M700 5-R Milspec Remington complete. No not a M40A3 but it shoots just as well, except I bought mine for $799. I don't know if you can find them any more they were a special addition and disappeared quickly as they didn't build very many.

I still want a M40A1 clone, but the above gave me a good knowledge base for when I do build. First I like the 5-R rifling a lot, (cut) but options for this are only three places, Boots Obermeyer, Mike Rock, and Remington. Now the bad news, Remington only sells there barrels on complete guns, if you can't find one of the above M700 Milspec's the only other rifle is the M-24, They are a lot of money look at the Remington LE web sight. Mike Rock built the first M-24 rifle barrels, before Remington brought them in house, the Army made Remington retest after changing barrels and the Rock barrels proved less accurate. He quit building barrels for a while and some have questioned the quality of the new barrels ( I don't personally know but I have read many rumors to that effect ), The last is the Obermeyer barrels he is the real originator of the 5-R barrels his barrels are still top drawer quality, the bad news is an order could be anywhere from 12-18 months to get a barrel. GA Precision buys his barrels and keeps them in stock, so you can skip that wait if you buy through them.

I personally want a Krieger barrel in a 1-10 or 1-11 twist rate (the A3 had 1-12 twist). Figure out what ammo you are going to shoot down to the bullet weight, for 168-175 you want a 1-11 if you even think you will use a heavier bullet get a 1-10.
Contour: There are a couple that are suitable, you are looking for a min diameter of .820 inch on the muzzel, but any up to .900 are good. After that it will be too front end heavy. I probably would start with a Krieger 1-11 twist in a #17 or #18 in a light of heavy varmit contour. You don't need to match the original contour exactly, unless you have a micometer I doubt you will be able to tell. Krieger is cut rifled available in Carbon or Stainless steel. If the wait wasn't an eternity I would look at the Obermeyer as an either or on this rifle.

I have a Lilja, Hart and Douglas on other rifles they are all good barrels, my Lilja barreled gun is real good gun and I like the barrel a lot, but it is button rifled barrel and on a M40A3 I want the cut rifling. ( the original schnieder's were button rifled ).

Kreiger will also true your action and chamber it, and have it cyro treated at the same time. GA Precison has a good reputation and can do all of the same, plus he builds a lot of similar rifles and knows the tricks. Your Badger and Ross parts can be bought directly, or through Brownells.

I would also suggest going with the long length action instead of the Remington short action. The originals were long actions, and they are a lot easier to load. Keep us posted on your progess, as I follow this pretty closely and am always looking for new information and tricks.

gaven
August 28, 2004, 02:17 AM
I have a Rem. 700 V.S. in .308 with the 26inch heavy barrel using a harris bipod it will put all the rounds in one hole at 100 yards and shoot a 1inch
group at 200yards. I only shoot my own reload in it using the sierra 168gr. HPBT and 46.5 gr. varget ,did have the trigger fine tuned

Sunray
August 28, 2004, 03:19 AM
The best barrels are being made in Canada. Surf over to http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/ and get the contact info.

Powderman
August 28, 2004, 04:31 AM
Whatever barrel maker you choose, (and I recommend any of the ones mentioned so far), make sure that you do the following when ordering:

Construct three dummy cartridges (without primer or powder), made to the EXACT OAL that you want, using the EXACT bullet that you want to use for premium accuracy. If you want magazine compatibility, make sure they fit into the magazine.

Send these three dummy cartridges to the barrel manufacturer, and tell them to install your barrel, blueprinted and trued, and chamber them to match the dummy cartridges. I recommend that you specify .01 to .03 from the lands to the base of the ogive of the seated bullet.

If I could recommend a chosen bullet in .308, I'd go with Sierra MatchKings. Their bullets from 155 to 175 grain have the same length, and use the same jacket. I would also go with a 1-10 twist--it's not too fast for 155 grain bullets, but will stabilize a 175 grainer just fine. I use the 175 grain in my .300 Laredo; 71.0 or IMR 4831, Federal Match primers, and Winchester cases, loaded to 3.510. This gun has fired 1/3 inch three round groups with that load.

This will all but eliminate experimentation with the seating length. Also, specify if you want a true match chamber (tight), or a SAAMI chamber (more versatile).

By the way, I heartily recommend the NightForce, specifically the 8-32 model. What a great optic!

Good luck--you've got me drooling on the keyboard now.

Houndawg
August 28, 2004, 05:57 AM
Texas Brigade Armory can get you set up with a M40 clone.

schromf
August 28, 2004, 01:10 PM
The tight chamber spec's that is one issue to be dealt with. Talk to who is chambering your barrel, most will use a different reamer for the tight chamber jobs. The recommendation by Powderman can be done without a tight chamber, both need to done for maximum accuracy. The downside to tight chamber specs is loading, benchrest guys don't care, a true sniper rifle it would be a annoyance at times. What Powderman says needs to be done, think and read a little before tight chambering.

About bullets, Sierra are great bullets I have nothing bad to say, there are a couple of others I would include in the radar screen. Nosler makes a good match bullet and sells them in bulk packs. And Lapua makes some awesome match bullets. Again do a little homework you can still do what powderman is suggesting, and with minor adjustments on your reloading equipment get all three to shoot well, it might favor the bullet you designed for by a .10-.15 inch group at 100 yds, maybe not also some fiddling and experimenting is required and suprises do happen.

A alternative to tight chambering which my gunsmith is recommending on my M700 is there is a guy in Washington that makes custom reloading dies. You do a chamber cast and then send it to him, he builds a die that will allow you to reload your ammo for tight chamber. This is attractive to me as the only way I could accomplish this on my M700 is to take the barrel off, cut it off, rechamber it and set the barrel back at least a thread. Since I am getting consistant .5 MOA with match ammo on this gun, and it isn't hard to get .4 MOA ( all five round groups ) I am not to interested in
fiddling with the barrel. Basically don't fix what isn't broke. I haven't done it yet as I am still sorting out my rifle, I haven't handloaded a round yet and I am using factory match as this point, my next step is reloading and trying to match results I am getting with the factory fodder, then tweak to maximise and improve upon it. I really only expect when I am all done I will get .10 MOA improvement, I just don't think I am going to tweak it down to a .25 MOA rifle ( would be nice but I am not holding my breath)

On thing which makes me like the 5-R barrels so well is how well mine is handling non premium ammo. I have been shooting Australian Defense Industries 144 gr, surplus ammo in this rifle, best group so far is .537" center to center, but 1 MOA is expected. For $27-34 for 160 rounds I am very happy.

I am still trying to sort out which match ammo is shooting best in my rifle, I would tend to say it likes the Federal right now, but that is a premature statement. I have shoot the Black Hills, and the Hornady also. I know the point of impact changes slightly with the Hornady. I need to get this in a more controlled test, and I am going to tune the trigger before I do that. I can say I am looking at a target from my last range session right now. It is a 10 round group at .75 MOA which doesn't sound so great, the reason I am so satisfied is I changed between Black Hills and Federal on this group, and the point of impact changed a little when I changed to the Black Hills. It really is two five round groups with different ammo, that are .667 inch center to center.

All this talk about some of my favorite rifles is getting me stirred up, I am prudently holding off right now though as the AWB is coming to a close and I want to see what I will be able to buy once it ends, I intend to jump on this window and don't want my cash restricted, cause I am not sure how long the window will be. But as soon as I get past that I am funding another but I want the M40A1.

Oh one last thought on barrels the McMillian M40A1 stocks take up to a #8 Douglas contour, The M40A3 stock will go up to 1.350 inches. I suggest you look into fluting if you go that heavy of a barrel though.

ocabj
August 28, 2004, 05:05 PM
Texas Brigade Armory can get you set up with a M40 clone.

You may want to ask around regarding TBA. Here's a thread off of The Sniper's Hide about a LEO who ordered a TBA rifle:

http://www.snipershide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003789#000000

schromf
August 28, 2004, 06:09 PM
Something was bugging me and I found it. If your looking for an original
Schnieder barrel here is the contact:

http://www.benchrest.com/sst/schneider.html

I would still want the cut rifling but its your gun and your money, hope this helps.

schromf
August 28, 2004, 06:13 PM
While I was searching, I ran into an old article which I think is informative. Kind of a a,b,c's of rifle barrels and definately worth the read before seperating dollars from your pocket.

http://www.xtremeaccuracy.com/Rifle_Barrel.htm

Snaps
August 28, 2004, 10:53 PM
thanks for info.

Just for the record there is no way, zero chance I will be buying a rifle from somebody. I'm not having anybody do anything on it, I'm doing everything myself. That's one big reason I can't have a SS barrel. Becasue I can't teflon coat anything myself.

Powderman
August 28, 2004, 11:46 PM
Not a bad idea--but there are a few considerations:

1. Have you done a barrel installation before?

2. Do you have the proper tools to do the type of job you will be satisfied with--hand tools, action wrench, roughing and finishing reamers, lathe with proper tooling, headspace gauges and all the associated equipment, and a barrel vise? Believe me, a regular vise will NOT work.

3. If you have a lathe, can you turn the barrel down to the desired contour, cut the threads on the chamber end, install the barrel to include truing of the bolt face to the breech, reaming, lapping if necessary, and cutting and finishing the crown?

4. Most importantly--are you able to take the financial hit if something goes wrong, and you watch about seven or eight hundred dollars go bye-bye?

If you don't have the proper tools, believe me--you will come out financially ahead to simply have someone mount a barrel for you.

Snaps
August 28, 2004, 11:55 PM
1, yes, a couple and I'll do a couple practice chamberings before i get to this one with a cheap barrel/action

2, Good to go on everything. Barrel vise mounted to the floor Good on that and I know people with whatever guages I need

3, already done a few crowns. Gotta get some instrucion on the rest of that but I have people who've done it alot of times on different actions to walk me through and help if I need it. And I'm sure I will. I'm goin gto start working on chambering in a week or so as time permits.

4, It's only money. If I don't spend it on this I'll buy something else with it that I really don't need.

Powderman
August 29, 2004, 01:24 AM
One of these days, when I have the house we'll stay in, I will hopefully have the tools to do what I want with any firearm I own. Good luck, and here's hoping you build a powder-driven laser!

Post some pictures if you can, and the results of your project. :)

Snaps
August 30, 2004, 08:53 PM
Well, this turned out to be the correct contact info

http://sst.benchrest.com/schneider.html

Getting a USMC contract barrel which is just a bit different than his standard #7 contour match grade barrel but it is SS.

Damn good price too $254 plus shipping for the same barrels that are built for the Marines.

Going to be about 4 weeks, or possibly a little longer since he's going on vacation for 2weeks but I've got time to wait.


Thanks again for finding that number ocabj. Got the action, barrel, going to order the floorplate and mag conversion tomorrow and I'm about to head over a few www's for the stock.:evil:

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