Boston Herald Hatchet job and my response.


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hillbilly
August 27, 2004, 08:30 AM
Here is the link and the story.


http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=41456


A Dorchester man desperate to get out of the gun trade dropped a stash of 1,500 rounds of high-powered ammunition on the highest profile community leader he could think of: the Rev. Eugene Rivers.
_____Rivers, floored by the amount of firepower, including a 66-round Tommy gun cylinder, arranged to turn over the arsenal to Boston police today.
_____``This is bad. It got turned in to a preacher,'' Rivers, president of the Ella J. Baker House in Dorchester, said last night. ``This Tommy gun thing is mind-boggling. What else is out there?''
_____According to the 28-year-old man whose name Rivers did not reveal, tons more ammunition and firearms are circulating on the streets of Boston where Rivers contends the illegal gun trade has become a growth industry.
_____``He said he wanted help. He wanted to get out, that he was jammed up,'' Rivers said.
_____So Rivers offered to hear him out. Forty-five minutes later, he came into possession of more weaponry than the minister ever wanted to see.
_____``The fact that young men are willing to surrender this kind of ammunition is clear evidence that significant numbers of young people want to do the right thing and live law-abiding lives,'' Rivers said. ``The surrender of this ammunition is a clear cry for help.
_____``Kids need to see there are better ways to entrepreneurship than guns.''
_____The bullet cache surfaces as Boston police have recruited help from federal and state agencies to help rein in a wave of violence that has pushed the city's body count to 45 so far this year. Boston had 28 murders by this time last year and 40 for all of 2003.
_____``We have challenged the black community to step up. Mayor Menino and Commissioner O'Toole have stepped up,'' Rivers said. ``Now it is time for the business leadership and the larger philanthropic community to join this battle to save poor children's lives.''
_____But local Nation of Islam leader Minister Don Muhammad disagreed with the notion that guns may be supplanting drugs as the underworld trade du jour.
_____``Drugs and guns are like peanut butter and jelly,'' he said. ``Without drugs, you don't need the guns. It's the drug business that is fueling the violence and the need for guns in the community. When you have a loss of jobs and poor-paying jobs, you're going to have a rise in drugs.''







And here is the question I sent to the paper using their feedback emailer.

I categorized this one under "other" and not "criticism."





I just read the story about the 28 year old man who gave 1500 rounds of rifle ammunition to a local preacher.

I must say I am very confused by this story.

I can't see what the 28 year old did that was wrong or illegal in this case, or even newsworthy.

First, unless the 28 year old is some sort of a convicted felon, owning rifle ammunition is perfectly legal inside the United States.

I cannot tell from the story if the man in question is a convicted felon of some sort and thus prohibited from owning ammunition.

Second, the story emphasizes the amount of ammunition....1500 rounds.

Having 1500 rounds of rifle ammo is hardly newsworthy.

For example, in most states you can purchase .22 caliber rifle ammunition in boxes of 500 rounds for about $7. Fifteen hundred rounds of that ammo would cost less than $25.

Serious competitive shooters may use up almost 1500 rounds of ammo a day while training for a competition.

Even casual plinkers could easily burn up 1500 rounds of ammo in only two or three trips to a range.

Many people often have at least 1000 rounds of ammunition for each different firearm they own.

So other than the fact that the young man actually had rifle ammo in his possession, what exactly was the news value of this story?

Again, I'm confused about this story, and would really like some help in clearing this up.

Thanks,

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Ukraine Train
August 27, 2004, 08:36 AM
http://news.bostonherald.com/images/localRegional/bullets08262004.jpg

Looks like it's just a bunch of pistol ammo, hardly "high-power."

including a 66-round Tommy gun cylinder
That's one heck of a revolver!

hillbilly
August 27, 2004, 08:41 AM
Looks like a typical AK drum mag partially full of Wolf.

hillbilly

Sodbuster
August 27, 2004, 08:52 AM
Without drugs, you don't need the guns
I do.

BeLikeTrey
August 27, 2004, 09:16 AM
The turn-in location from now on will be located at my home. Thanks.

bogie
August 27, 2004, 11:03 AM
Last night I found two ammo cans I'd missplaced. One was full of 7.62x39, and the other had a few thousand loose .22LRs...

Maybe I should call the minister and see if he wants to go plinking...

Andrew Rothman
August 27, 2004, 11:59 AM
Yeah. I call 1500 rounds a "trip to Wal-Mart," not an arsenal.

But I'm an evil gun-owner; what do I know?

OEF_VET
August 27, 2004, 12:18 PM
I wonder if the minister would be interested in selling that ammo and the AK drum? I'd give him a fair price for it. I'm sure my money could do a lot to help him in his struggle to make Dorchester a safer place to live.

Gump
August 27, 2004, 01:01 PM
I was on the T last night heading hoam and I saw the Herald Forn page and thought "I bet it's a couple of WWBs of 9mm. they were selling at Sports Authority recently for 4.99/


So we are talking about 1 range trip for 2-3 guy's and less that $80 in ammo.



And For the most part, I was right.....:rolleyes:

Third_Rail
August 27, 2004, 02:42 PM
That man (the preacher) is either a criminal or a hypocrite.

Why do I say this? Because in MA, the law is such that one MUST HAVE an FID to possess any ammunition, not to mention that one must have a class A LTC to have a "high capacity" feeding device, i.e. that drum in the picture. So this man either doesn't have the permits and is a criminal (no one is above the law, not even a man of God) and has to be charged, or is a has the permits and is a hypocrite for saying that no-one needs guns.

Which is it?

Old Dog
August 27, 2004, 03:54 PM
... but it's probably not gonna make anyone at the newspaper think any more about one of their stories (that a person with any common sense should recognize as a non-story) ... Now, if your response was printed in the letters section, perhaps it might make one or two readers engage some brain cells. But, sadly, to the average non-gunperson, 1500 rounds of ammunition seems like it belongs in a military armory ...

WhiteKnight
August 27, 2004, 04:03 PM
I bet it's a couple of WWBs of 9mm. they were selling at Sports Authority recently for 4.99

Now do you mean 100-round WWBs like they sell here for $11, or something else? :scrutiny:

Gump
August 27, 2004, 04:16 PM
I mean 100 round WWB 9mm for 4.99, I bought all but 1 of the boxes they had. I am not greedy:D (actually I am but I would have been a little short for the las box. Like 50ยข short:fire: )

Sawdust
August 27, 2004, 04:16 PM
I would assume the 50 count WWB's.

HTH,

Sawdust

Gump
August 27, 2004, 04:18 PM
nope 100 rounder. and they are usually around $11 here as well

Sawdust
August 27, 2004, 04:43 PM
Dag!!

I stand corrected.

Sawdust

Gump
August 27, 2004, 04:45 PM
The cashier got a kick out of it. :D

Deavis
August 27, 2004, 08:10 PM
haha, come on. High powered ammo arsenal? When I was 8 I thought 1000 rounds of ammor was an arsenal. Of course, then I was a little kid who didn't understand how insignificant a few thousand rounds of ammo was for people who reload.

Man, I've got than many in 9mm sitting out in the garage right now! That's not counting the 40lbs of powder and oh... 75,000 primers waiting to be put into a proper home! :)

You know what, I'm going to go load a few extra for the minister tonight! Send him a picture of a real arsenal.

sendec
August 27, 2004, 08:44 PM
If this is less ammo that's going to be sprayed around the 'hood, rock on. Charging the guy for possession should'nt fly as he is'nt really demonstrating criminal intent, and I would bet it's going to the police anyway.

Why do we have to put a negative spin on everything? The area in question is'nt known as a hotbed of sporting clays , high power matches, SASS or deer hunting. 50-50 odds that that ammo was going to some gangsta to do bad things with. And now its not.

hillbilly
August 27, 2004, 09:02 PM
Sendec wrote
______________________________________________________________________
If this is less ammo that's going to be sprayed around the 'hood, rock on. Charging the guy for possession should'nt fly as he is'nt really demonstrating criminal intent, and I would bet it's going to the police anyway.

Why do we have to put a negative spin on everything? The area in question is'nt known as a hotbed of sporting clays , high power matches, SASS or deer hunting. 50-50 odds that that ammo was going to some gangsta to do bad things with. And now its not.
______________________________________________________________________


Sendec, I don't think you get it at all.

Every single repressive gun control law that's ever been passed has always used the exact same line of "thinking" expressed in your statements above.

Every single one.....From the NFA to the GCA of 1968 to bans on handguns in major cities to the Assault Weapons Ban to the ridiculous magazine bans passed by individual states, every single horrible, stupid, evil control law ever passed has been jammed down our throats using exactly the reasons you just stated....

If it stops bullets from being sprayed around the hood, rock on...........

Not only has every single horrible gun control law been jammed down our throats by using the argument that it's intended to stop slaughter in the hood, the second part of your statement reflects much that is very wrong in the "shooting community" today.

The idea of "I don't care about X because it doesn't affect my sporting clays or my deer hunting" is exactly the type of mindset that allows evil politicians to pass horrible gun control laws.

That's about as short-sighted as it gets. That's exactly the mindset the antis want us to have, so they can pick us off, group by group, until there is nothing left but two-shot trap shotguns, and then those only with safe storage, regulated permits and tightly controlled access to trap loads.

Not only that, your statement also smacks of elitism, at the very least.

hillbilly

ExtremeDooty
August 27, 2004, 10:41 PM
"If it saves just one life...."

"It's for the Children...."

"If you have nothing to hide...."

"Its only purpose is to kill people...."

"You don't need that for hunting...."

:rolleyes:


I feel like something of a panty waist now, I only have about 500 rounds on hand

45-auto
August 28, 2004, 02:50 AM
What ExtremeDooty said.

I left Boston a long time ago, after a brief residence, because the folks who run that state are either stupid or hypocritical or, more likely, both. Especially with respect to firearms.

They are so dumb they have Teddy Kennedy AND John Kerry for Senators. Two very similar warts itching on the posterior of the public.

Hell, I've personally shot 1500 rounds in less than a month, just messing around plinking.

But most of you are right: this is a non-story except in the minds of sheep journalists.

Delmar
August 28, 2004, 03:36 AM
ExtremeDooty
quit goofin off on the websites and go load a couple thousand rounds:D

loose cannon
August 28, 2004, 05:04 AM
that what i need to do get off here and finish my 300rds of 357mag,,,as well as 500rds of 38spl,as well as 150rds of 44mag,as well as 3000rds of 9mm,well you get the pix.no rest for the wicked

aut2no
August 28, 2004, 03:42 PM
quote___________________________________________
Why do we have to put a negative spin on everything? The area in question is'nt known as a hotbed of sporting clays , high power matches, SASS or deer hunting. 50-50 odds that that ammo was going to some gangsta to do bad things with. And now its not.
______________________________________________________

Abosolutely right! read this about Rivers:

Rev. Eugene Rivers of Boston
"Close your eyes and listen to Rev. Eugene Rivers of Boston, and you might hear strains of Black conservative Bob Woodson, Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, or Louis Farrakhan. These dichotomies all live quite comfortably, thank you, in the mind of Rivers, who has become a national lightening rod in the war to save troubled, inner-city youth from themselves..............

http://www.horizonmag.com/poverty/eugene-rivers.asp


This guy was instrumental for the 2 year period in which there was no murder for anyone under 17 in Boston. While I disagree with some of his views, he nonetheless walks the walk when it comes to doing something about gangs in Boston.

Jason Demond
August 28, 2004, 04:57 PM
Anyone notice that the good Minister looks like kofi annan?

http://www.forbes.com/specialsections/techmuseumawards/images/kofi_annan.jpg
http://news.bostonherald.com/images/localRegional/bullets08262004.jpg
:uhoh:

aut2no
August 28, 2004, 05:25 PM
Sorry my previous link about Eugene Rivers isn't active, however this man is probably the single best known anti-gang activist. He is not well liked by fellow African American democrats. He contests Jesse Jackson's moral authority to speak for African Americans. He supports felow Mass resident Bill Cosby in his stand on personal responsibility.

Rivers publically asks Where are the Dads? Why are 2 out of 3 black kids born out of wedlock? Why do parents let their teenage kids be out at midnight? Where are the witnesses to the crime scene?

This is a guy whose been on the cover of Newsweek and has met with President Bush. He is the best known community leader with the Boston Police. And yes, guns and ammo get turned in all the time at the Azuza Christian Center.

Can we agree here on the "high road" that criminals should be disarmed?

Is it OK if some kids turn to the church to get away from the gangs?

Can we agree that community leaders who confront gang terrorists should be praised?

Or is it better to pontificate on an internet forum how we could do it better ?

ExtremeDooty
August 28, 2004, 05:38 PM
I don't think the problem is with the preacher getting ammo out of the hood. I think it's likely that ammo would have been used for nothing good. Anything this guy can do to get guns and ammo out of the hands of criminals has my support and gratitude.

The problem is with the language used in the story. They reported that 1500 rds of pistol ammo is a high powered ammo arsenal, and they say this as if this is an indisputable fact. While most of us here know that's just nonsense, most of the non shooting public will accept this idea without question. And this is where gun control starts.

Then the politicians and blissninnies start.

Why would anyone need more than 200 rds for target shooting?
General public..."yeah, more than that would be a high powered ammo arsenal.

Why would anyone need more than a 22 pistol and rifle for target shooting?
General public..."yeah, all you really need is a bb gun (properly registered, of course) to shoot targets.

Why would anyone need more than a lever action 30-30 to hunt deer (which you shouldn't do in the first place) or a 20 ga to shoot skeet and birds, (which you also shouldn't do).
General public..."yeah, high powered weapons are only needed to kill people"

The problem is that we can't let the ill informed establish the language of the debate before we have the debate or we'll always be on the defensive and having to answer questions that start with "Why on earth would you need (fill in blank)?

MAURICE
August 29, 2004, 07:07 PM
Anyone notice that the good Minister looks like kofi annan?
Yup. And Kofi Annan looks like Morgan Freeman. :D

Cacique500
August 29, 2004, 07:25 PM
I dont know...I panic when I see 1500 rounds.

It means I'm WAAAAY low on ammo and need to crank up the Dillon :D

Travis McGee
August 30, 2004, 11:38 AM
I think the unstated subtext of this article is "Some people just can't handle firearms ownership responsibly."

IOW, "Certain minorities in urban centers can only use firearms to harm one another, and it's better if they are totally disarmed."

More patronizing liberal plantation thinking.

Tamara
August 30, 2004, 11:42 AM
If you add up everything in my house that's in the sofa cushions, in drawers, under furniture (where the cats dragged it), lying on shelves, in pants pockets, loose in my purse, and rolling around the trunk of my car, I probably have more ammo than that loose and unaccounted for. :uhoh:

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