[phantomak47]

what is the better defensive round?

I will be carrying it in a sig 226 and I want to know if I should get either the 115 or the 124.....................

[cslinger]

Although I do have some 115 grain in my house ammo stash I prefer and have as my main loading 124 grain. I like the middle weight combined with it's velocity.

Chris

[George Hill]

I prefer the 124's too.

[Lennyjoe]

Im a big fan of Black Hills 124gr +P with the Speer Gold Dot JHP round.

[jeff-10]

Same I prefer the 124s. Next is the 115s and lastly the 147s.

[Redlg155]

I've been a fan of the 124 in compact and full size versions, but I like 115 gr bullets in a sub compact.

I've got some Corbon 100 gr grain powerball that I'm getting ready to test. Corbon rates it a 1475 fps w/483 ft/lbs of energy.

As of now my current carry load is COrbon 9mm 125gr +P out of my HK USP Compact. It looks as though Corbon has gone through some redesign of thier 124grain bullets since I last purchased some. The bullet OAL looks a longer as well as having cannelure rolled in to help against bullet setback.

Good Shooting
Red

[bad_dad_brad]

124s in my Glocks. 115s in my MK9 Kahr. I don't care for 147s either.

[Climb14er]

124gr +P in Sig and HK 9mm's, 115gr. in my PM9 Kahr. Gold Dots.

[ceestand]

If I had to choose between the two, I'd go with the 124s. However, my carry round, and preference, is a Winchester 147.

I would avoid 115s for defense, but occasionally practice with them as 147gr Win USA FMJ is so difficult to find.

[Ala Dan]

Here is a couple of notes on good performing 9m/m bullet's:

a) I prefer Federal's 124 grain JHP "Hydra Shok's" over their
115 grain JHP offering. The bullet seems to stay together a
bit longer, causing a deeper wound channel. This is believed
to be the infamous "U.S. Secret Service Load", used to protect
our President; as well as other dignitaries?

b) Street results have been marvelous from close ranges with
Winchester-Western's 115 grain (aluminum jacketed) SilverTip
JHP's. I know of a perp you pretend to be a town drunk, and
upon approach by the arresting officer kept falling over to one
side as if in a stupor. The last time he pulled this stunt, he was
able to produce an old "el cheapo" handgun, and turned ever
so slightly toward the officer; who had a Smith & Wesson model
59 cocked at the base of his skull. One round of the 115 grain
Winchester-Western SilverTips did this disheartened fool in;
with a wound channel of about 8 inches in length, an about
a 1/2" wide. Needless to say, the perp is pushing up daisy's
today in a county cemetery.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[stans]

When I rely on my S&W 439, I stoke it with Remington's 115 grain JHP +P load. This load actually chrono's 1250 feet per second from my 9mm. This is a full 100 feet per second faster than most 115 grain standard pressure loads. This ammo is also readily available in my area.

[P95Carry]

Just my 2c but .. out of 3" bbl or greater then I think 124's will be good .. even 147's in a BHP perhaps, for example.

Go to short bbl .. compact or even like my R9 and I fancy the 115's have an edge.

[emann]

I use 124 grain in my P239.

[Clark]

I was experimenting with 115 and 124 a few years back, but have switched to 158 gr XTPs and Power Pistol for:
1) large .380s
2) 9mm
3) 9x23mm

I still fool around with 115 gr JHP for the 6 ounce Kel-Tec P3AT .380.

[cratz2]

I prefer the 124 Gr +P Gold Dots from Georgia Arms. I also like the 127 +P+ Rangers. I like Golden Sabers in 40 and 45, but for some reason, they don't inspire confidence in 9mm.

I wouldn't feel undergunned with 115s from either Remington or the Silvertips.

I've never shot a single one, but the 147 Ranger Ts seem to be an interesting round. If I could get 500 of them at less than $20/50, I might consider them as most reports are very favorable.

[phantomak47]

does anyone have anything to say about Black hills?

I have read that it is really good ammo and I was wondering if it would be a better choice than the speer gold dots? thanks for the help

[cratz2]

I've not shot Black Hills 9mm that I specifically recall, but I've shot their 45ACP ammo and several varieties of rifle ammo... No complaints at all.

[Akurat]

phantomak,
Black Hills is fantastic ammo, very consistent velocity as well as good terminal performance. They use Gold Dot bullets. I would recommend them, but the Speer loading should be fine and very similar unless you just have to have the best quality.

[Lennyjoe]

I have never had any probems with Black Hills Ammo

Used it in Glock 19 and now in my BHP.

Good stuff!

[Johnny Guest]

I'm mildly concerned that the higher velocity 115 JHP ammo could do its expanding a bit too soon and stop short of "adequate" penetration. I used to use Federal HydraShok. When my agency began issuing Speer GDHP, I switched over to that and feel well served. In my Glock 19 and BHP, the Speer shows a bit more accuracy than the Ranger SXT - - At least in my hands. :p

Best,
Johnny

[NMshooter]

I prefer the 147gr. Gold Dot. Between 124 and 115 I like the 124. Of course my practice ammo tends to be 115 FMJ because it is cheapest.

[Dorrin79]

124gr EFMJ +p is what currently resides in my BHP carry piece.

I've been meaning to try some of the 127gr +p+ ranger SXT that everyone speaks of so highly, but $$$...

I generally prefer 124 to 115; 115 seems a little light. I imagine either gets the job done, though.

[shoobe01]

124. For all the reasons above.

Also, for those who get all happy with the originallly intended design/caliber/laod, 124 grains comes from 8 grams, the metric weight (fine, mass) the original 9 mm was designed around.

AFAIK, all military issue ammo, pretty much anywhere, is 124gr/8g.

[phantomak47]

In one of Massad Ayoob books , he talks about how the IL state police use the Black hills in 115 +P and had great results with the light bullet. He infact prefers the hot 115 loads from Black hills, I was wondering what everyone thought about this load out there

[tlhelmer]

124 gr. +p or 127 gr. +P+:uhoh:

[cratz2]

I was wondering what everyone thought about this load out there

I've never used it so I don't have a strong opinion... though I'm sure many will chime in with strong opinings though they haven't used it either. :p

Still gets back to I'd rather have the bit heavier bullet. Black Hills uses the Gold Dots, Georgia Arms uses the Gold Dots and Speer obviously use Gold Dots. I still think the 124 Gr +P Gold Dot from any of them is going to be one of the best available loads. If shooting directly into soft tissue, I'm sure the 115 would cause a bit of trauma but if the guy is wearing several layers or denim or leather, I'd rather have the heavier bullet. And for police that might have to shoot through glass or sheet metal, I'd definately rather have the heavier bullet.

But that's just me.

[isp2605]

phantomak wrote:
"In one of Massad Ayoob books , he talks about how the IL state police use the Black hills in 115 +P and had great results with the light bullet. He infact prefers the hot 115 loads from Black hills, I was wondering what everyone thought about this load out there"

If Ayoob wrote that then he's wrong. The IL State Police never used Black Hills ammo. The last loading used by the ISP was W-W 115 gr JHP+P+ Ranger which is often referred to as the "ISP load". It clocked an honest 1350 fps out of the 459 and 5904. It averaged 1320 out of my 6904. The ISP worked with W-W to develop that loading. That load was carried for several years and used many times with great success. When I grab one of my 9mm for off duty carry I still stoke it with that round. Prior to the W-W loading was Fed 9BPLE and 9BP. Those loadings too were very successful. For a short time in 1980 the ISP issued 115 gr Silvertip which was used once near Joliet on a biker. It was not so successful and yielded the same result as when it was used by the FBI in Miami. The Silvertip is a quick expanding, limited penetration round and was not the round that was needed at the time. Other issued rds have been Fed 95 gr SP, W-W 125 gr RNSP, and others during the 60s and 70s.

[Johnny Guest]

isp2605. Many years ago, I read an article about Illinois State Police being among the first to go with a double action autoloader. They were said to use the S&W Model 39 in a cross draw flap holster. They contracted with Winchester for a special 100 grain soft point load - - "Power Point," I believe it was called.

And, having written the above, I now wonder if it was an article about INDIANA SP???? I honestly don't recall. It was one of the "I" states, and 'twasn't Idaho. Maybe Iowa? I don't think so . . . .

Late 1960s, I believe, in GUNS magazine.

Any thoughts on this?
;)
Best,
Johnny

[williegee]

I've tried different bullet weights from different manufacturers and finally decided on 115 gr. Winchester Silvertips. I really wanted to carry 124 gr. Remington Golden Sabers based on my research but the simple fact of the matter is Winchesters are the most reliable in my Glock 19 and I am most accurate with that ammo.

[isp2605]

"Many years ago, I read an article about Illinois State Police being among the first to go with a double action autoloader. They were said to use the S&W Model 39 in a cross draw flap holster. They contracted with Winchester for a special 100 grain soft point load - - "Power Point," I believe it was called."

IL SP was the first large agency to go with autos. In 1968 the ISP adopted the S&W 39. Salt Lake City PD was soon after.
The flapped cross draw was worn until the mid-70s. It really wasn't that much slower than a strong side. The trick was to wear it just to the side of the belt buckle. That put the butt of the gun very close to your drawing hand. It was very easy to stand like your hands were folded in front but have the gun in your hand covered by your off hand. Where it was really fast was while in the interview stance. As soon as you cleared leather you were on target.
I don't know what the first loadings were. The Power Point was a RN soft point. I know for a while they were in the 125 gr. The initial loadings could have very well been 100 gr. After the 125 gr was the 95 gr Federal SP. Out of my 39 it clocked 1400 fps. The only shootings I saw with the 95 gr was on road hit deer. It did a great job on them. I dug out a lot of them and they mushroomed perfectly most of the time but other times broke up. The problem with the 95 gr was going against windows and car sheet metal.
Don't know what the IN SP or IA SP carried. The IASP carried revolvers until not too many years ago.

[jeff-10]

124 - 115 =9. I have always wondered what the real difference 9 grains make. I have a feeling its more marketing than anything.

[Wildalaska]

147.......147........147.......

WildbigbulletAlaska

[cratz2]

I don't think 9 individual grains is important... Just that these days, I think a lot of folks in the 115 or lighter get very hung up on velocity... And many of the 115 and lighter bullets tend to seperate at the highest velocities.

Also, it may be only 9 grains, but that 9 grains translates into almost 8 percent. That's the difference between a 168 Gr 30 caliber slug and a 180 grainer and some folks will swear up and down that the 180 will kill a moose dead right there but would never be caught hunting anything bigger than large deer with a 165 or 168.

Same thing with a 185 Gr 45ACP slug vs a 200 Grain bullet.

Sectional densities can have a big impact on penetration... even small differences in sectional denisty.

[VaughnT]

Phantom, unfortunately, my bhp doesn't accurately place anything other than 115g rounds. During the break-in phase, I tried 115g and 147g WWB ammo, both FMJ and JHP, and found that the heavier bullets went high and to the right with a wide-spread pattern reminiscent of a shotgun pattern. The 115g rounds, again in 115g and 147g, shot the center of the target out, just like I was planning.

I'm going to try some +P 124g ammo just to see if there's a difference, and I'm hoping that I can find a heavier defensive round that shoots to POA. Can't stand that featherweight stuff for self-defense, though I'll use it if that's all that shoots right.

[Big Gay Al]

I'd say that depends. First, does your pistol have adjustable sights or fixed? I have a Taurus PT-92 which has fixed sights. I find that 115 grain +P 9mm strikes more on center than anything else. Based on those results, that is what I put in my 9mm.

[gbelleh]

I prefer 124 gr 9mm. It seems to be more accurate and more reliable in most of my 9mm pistols. My carry round of choice is Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +p. I usually try to use the heaviest round in a given caliber, but 124 gr. seems to give me the best accuracy, reliablilty, and performance so I stick with it. I also use 124 gr. FMJ for practice whenever possible.

[cratz2]

Still comes down to individual guns and probably individual shooters... My Taurus PT99AF shot so far to the left with CorBon 115 Gr +Ps that even with the sight adjusted all the way over, they still were over 3" or 4" to the left at 25 yards. Granted, as a civilian, I personally wouldn't hesitate to carry a gun that shot 3" up, down, left or right at 25 yards as long as the paterns were somewhat consistant, but just something to consider.

Being a long time fan of 230 Gr 45 bullets, I must admit that I would prefer a reliably expanding 147 gr bullet such as the Ranger Ts. I just don't have consistant access to any of the 9mm Ranger Ts and they're just too pricey for me to seriously evaluate when I can get the Georgia Arms 124 +P Gold Dots which have a stunning record on 'the street' and are easily obtained and less expensive for me.

[Gabby Hayes]

147gr JHP from any of the major ammo makers. Doesn't come in +P so you won't be waking up the neighbors with excessive boom and flash, and you won't be pounding your gun into rubble. 124gr +P if you prefer the middle of the road and like the recoil. 115gr if you can't find anything else.

[vw.tech]

I carry 147gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
For fun its Winchester 115gr FMJ

[Big Gay Al]

I think everyone with a 9mm has to see what works best for them. Some Nine's will be on target with 124 grain rounds, others, like my PT-92 are on target with 115 +P rounds. And still others might work best with 147 grain stuff.

As it is, 95% of the time, I carry a Firestorm Gov't model with 9 rounds (8+1) of 230 .45 ACP, and 2x8 round spare mags. I like to make big holes. ;)

[DonGlock26]

I prefer 147gr RangerT or Golddots. I wouldn't mind using 124+P Golddots or 127+P+ RangerT either, but I like the extra penetration of the 147gr bullet. I've seen the 147gr Golddot work in a few O.I.S. and it performed well.


Stay Safe,

Don

[armoredman]

Right now, Winchester 115gr JHP from WallyWorld. All I could afford. It shoots stright out of my PO1, and Evan Marshalls' research showed it to be a decent preformer. I can hit what I aim at, and that's more than half the battle. Later, I'll try some CorBon PowRball, and Fed EFMJ.

[phantomak47]

What does everyone think about hornady? decent stuff? I bought a box since I have to special order +p black hills

[SAG0282]

My carry round of choice is the 124 grain +P Golden Saber.

[SuperCollider]

I prefer the 124 Gr +P Gold Dots from Georgia Arms. I also like the 127 +P+ Rangers.


Ditto.

[NEtracker]

124 Gold Dots or Golden Sabers.

[Todesengel]

I use the Winchester Ranger 147gr. as self defense round in a 9mm. Here is my reason:
Bullets were fired in the mud (I know, shooting in mud says nothing but gives you a little idea), penetration was:
Federal: ~7"
Winchester: ~7"
Remington: ~9"

I don't have a scale but it seems like the Winchester Ranger 147gr. bullet still has it's full weight, the Federal Hydra Shock 147gr. lost a lot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/1911-A1/bulletcomparison.jpg

[Rickstir]

Mark me up for 124 gr. JHP's. Same round the local sheriff department carries.

[Ken Rainey]

I prefer the 147 grain bullets but would use what ever functioned the best and hit POA in your particular pistol. I tend to prefer the non +P ammo - especially in metal framed pistols.

Of course, YMMV

Ken

[SunBear]

If you REALLY want to know how these rounds are going to perform downrange go to tacticalforums.com and search the terminal ballistics forum for 9mm ammunition tests. No opinions. Just data. Happy trails.

[Black Snowman]

I prefer 124s becuase they give the best combination of momentum and energy.

[BushyGuy]

i carry Hornady 124 gr CQ TAP in my 9mm, they are a very good round for penetration, speed and accuracy.