[Can'thavenuthingood]

VOTES - ROLL CALL
MEASURE: SB 1152
AUTHOR: Scott
TOPIC: Ammunition.
DATE: 08/27/2004
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: UNFINISHED BUSINESS- SB1152 Scott
(AYES 21. NOES 15.) (PASS)
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The Analysis:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_1151-1200/sb_1152_cfa_20040827_121619_sen_floor.html


SUPPORT : (Verified 8/27/04)

City of Los Angeles (source)
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
California Police Chiefs Association
Children's Defense Fund
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
League of California Cities
Legal Community Against Gun Violence
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Office
Los Angeles District Attorney's Office
Los Angeles Mayor James Hahn
Los Angeles Police Department
Marin County Sheriff's Office
San Mateo County Sheriff's Office
State Attorney General
State Department of Justice
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This will be interesting.

SB 1152 passed and it's on the way to the Governors desk. Who is sitting in the chair at time of arrival?

As I've mentioned in a past post, the "League of California Cities" is an org most of your city councils have signed onto. The National League of Cities covers all the US. http://www.nlc.org/nlc_org/site/

What is your city council up to?
Do you know which of your council members is pro or anti gun?

One of my council members at the last meeting in a strong loud confident voice stated that he is against California's citizen initiative process and that we should support our state Assembly and Senators. Up until this moment, this guy was relatively meek and mild mannered. Now he has the pulpit. He has 2 more years before his seat is up for election. I'm taking notes.

Vick

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SB 1140 passed the Senate and the Assembly also.

The Analysis:

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/bill/sen/sb_1101-1150/sb_1140_cfa_20040827_124320_sen_floor.html

This bill (1) amends criminal storage of firearm
laws to add a new misdemeanor crime for keeping a handgun
where a person knows or reasonably should have known a
child is likely to gain access to it, and does, and (2)
creates a new alternate misdemeanor/felony ("wobbler") in
Penal Code Section 12035 for a storage of a firearm in
proximity to ammunition.

SUPPORT : (Verified 8/27/04)

Brady Campaign for the Prevention of Gun Violence United
with the Million Mom March (co-source)
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (co-source)
Firearms Law Center
Placer County District Attorney
Los Angeles District Attorney
American Academy of Pediatrics
Trauma Foundation


VOTES - ROLL CALL (Senate)
MEASURE: SB 1140
AUTHOR: Scott
TOPIC: Firearms: minors.
DATE: 08/27/2004
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: UNFINISHED BUSINESS- SB1140 Scott
(AYES 21. NOES 15.) (PASS)


AYES
****

Alarcon Alpert Bowen Burton
Chesbro Dunn Escutia Figueroa
Karnette Kuehl Machado Murray
Ortiz Perata Romero Scott
Sher Soto Speier Torlakson
Vasconcellos

VOTES - ROLL CALL (Assembly)
MEASURE: SB 1140
AUTHOR: Scott
TOPIC: Firearms: minors.
DATE: 08/27/2004
LOCATION: ASM. FLOOR
MOTION: SB 1140 Scott Senate Third Reading By Steinberg
(AYES 41. NOES 34.) (PASS)


AYES
****

Berg Bermudez Calderon Chan
Chavez Chu Cohn Corbett
Diaz Dutra Dymally Firebaugh
Frommer Goldberg Hancock Jerome Horton
Jackson Kehoe Laird Leno
Levine Lieber Liu Longville
Lowenthal Montanez Mullin Nakano
Nation Oropeza Pavley Reyes
Ridley-Thomas Salinas Steinberg Vargas
Wesson Wiggins Wolk Yee
Nunez


My guys voted no.

Vick

[redhead]

Hancock and Torlakson - both Aye. Guess they didn't care too much about my opinion.

[fjolnirsson]

:banghead: :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :cuss: :banghead:

[matthew]

The fact that these bills come so soon after the passage of AB50 by ghost-voting, I suspect they may well have passed the same way. Was anyone watching the vote?

I wrote a letter to the governor of California about AB-50 (the .50 ban) when it passed, asking him to veto it:
http://www.triggerfinger.org/weblog/entry/5753.jsp

I've also written a follow-up asking him to investigate these two bills for the same problem,
and veto them as well if they were passed the same way: http://www.triggerfinger.org/weblog/entry/5756.jsp

Go send your own. Maybe we can encourage Arnold to grow a spine on this issue. It's hard enough to stop gun control in CA without the Democrats cheating.

[joe4702]

My letter to the Gov regarding AB50 went out in the mail Friday. Guess it's time to write another one. We'll see if it's going to be business as usual or if Arnold is going to be his own man, apply logic and common sense and veto these bills. My guess is he's all about image and won't risk being demonized by the media for vetoing these bills and "endangering the chillrun." Let's face it - most of the general population here doesn't give a rats behind about gun rights.

Does anyone know if SB1152 will affect mail-order sales?

[matthew]

it's hard to say. The language says "retail", which to me implies a storefront, but retail is probably defined elsewhere as something specific.

[Cacique500]

Insane :confused:

[Standing Wolf]

I'm sure I'll always miss the temperate climate and beaches.

I occasionally buy ammunition in drug stores in Colorado. I take it off the shelf, continue shopping, pay for everything, and don't even have to show my driver's license when I write a check.

[El Rojo]

Where did this flurry of anti-gun legislation come from? Well the good news is we will soon know whether the governor really wants to turn this state around or not. I sort of hope the ammunition thing goes through, the people of this state need a wake up call to realize we are losing our fight here. Then again, if it gets vetoed, we are suddenly holding ground. Either way, mail order is still the way to go!

[Pilgrim]

I sort of hope the ammunition thing goes through, the people of this state need a wake up call to realize we are losing our fight here.

The average Californian doesn't give a s**t what happens with regards to gun laws until there is a riot like the Rodney King affair. Then he is stunned to find out there is a waiting period to buy any gun.

Pilgrim

[Telperion]

Does anyone have sample letters to send to the governator? Might as well send out one each for AB50 and now this at the same time. :mad:

El Rojo- No. If people haven't woken up yet, this won't stir them. If this bill is signed, mail order will work until Lockyer sends threatening nastygrams to online resellers, just like what happened in Massachusetts. Will you be glad then?

[matthew]

The links I posted earlier in the thread have sample letters.

[R.H. Lee]

Arnold should veto it. This state cannot afford another layer of bureacracy. As for Lockyer, his days are numbered. The dem party is beginning to lose its grip here-big scandal emerging with gun grabber Kevin Shelley, Sec of State, and Lockyer's lapdog. :D

[El Rojo]

Pipsqueak, we might be surprised by the number of recreational shooters out there that suddenly have to put up with a bunch of bullcrap. Suddenly it isn't about assault weapons or .50 calibers. It is about having to go through a bunch of bull crap to buy a box of 12 gauge trap loads. This ammo thing is big enough it might wake some people up.

Of course I have given Californians too much credit before. Either way, my assemblyman voted no and I have sent my letters to the governor. All I can do now is sit back and watch the show and tell a few of my friends to do the same.

Will I be glad? You know as much as I do we mainly just get to ride the ride around here. Just one more thing to deal with in a crappy state. Not much we can do about it. Lets see if Arnold actually wants to make a change or not. Heck even Gray Davis vetoed some gun bills after SB23 and SB15.

[4570Rick]

My guy voted NO and Lou Correa is a Dem. :D

[RevDisk]

What are the exact effects of the implementation of SB 1152?

[redhead]

What are the exact effects of the implementation of SB 1152?

For starters, law abiding citiizens are treated no differently they sex offenders, by having to register to buy ammo, fingerprint and all. It is a huge infringement on liberty.

As to the exact effects on other aspects, such as businesses, I can only speculate. I would guess that a lot of small businesses would simply stop selling ammunition because of the increased paperwork burden, which would cut into profit margins. Staff would have to be trained to comply with the new law and resulting regulations, which costs money and reduces efficiency.

I would also imagine that there would be a lot more people driving to Nevada and Oregon to stock up on ammo to avoid being treated like criminals. I would also guess that more people would begin reloading their own. I don't know what the law says about purchasing the components - I skimmed the bill, but didn't see specifically where components would bee affected. It does say "bullets", so perhaps you'd have to give up a thumprint and personal info to buy the bullets, but not the power. Dunno. If the bill is signed, then the DOJ will have to write relations to administer the piece of excrement, and if the law is written with sufficient vagueness, it gives the bureaucrats a lot of maneuvering room.

I certainly don't think that the Founding Fathers and framers of the Constitution thought that requiring United States citizens to give over fingerprints and personal information would be just fine and dandy, and constitutes "reasonable, common sense gun control".

Both of my so-called "representatives" voted for this liberty-killing travesty. I faxxed, called and emailed, so at least I voice my opposition. Not that it mattered.

:banghead:

[K-Romulus]

The bill requires you to list your name & drivers license info.

Those two things together, in the wrong hands, can put someone in a world of hurt.

From http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/08/caidttest.htm

The testimony notes that the most common forms of identity theft reported by California consumers during the first nine months operation of the FTC database were:

Government Documents or Benefits - Approximately 8 percent of consumers reported that an identity thief had obtained or forged government documents or benefits - such as drivers licenses - in their name.

[jnojr]

The quick-and-easy way to voice your opinion:

http://www.govmail.ca.gov/

[Drjones]

Is this a joke?????

[Ben Shepherd]

Good gravy, you guys have got it rough.

That line in the sand we all discuss? I'll tell you this, that bill is cleary over it in my case.

Good luck, this is a rough blow to take.

Let the rest of us know if a veto's possible.

Where's Jim March on this one?

[redhead]

Where's Jim March on this one?

Jim March has been collecting information, doing research on areas that have similar laws at the request of Arnold's staff. There are a couple of threads here where Jim has been asking for information.

[boofus]

Can we sell ********** back to Mexico and New Dork back to England now?

[El Rojo]

If you sell us back to Mexico, then the Mexicans will start hopping the border to the next state. Lets assume Arizona. Once Arizona is gone, you only have New Mexico in the way before they start coming your way. This country needs a dumping ground for illegal aliens and liberals and you might as well keep California it.

[fjolnirsson]

[R.H. Lee]

What ID do I show? Green card, matricula card, United Farmworkers Union card? welfare benefits/foodstamp card????????

[alan]

The following might prove informative and or of interest to readers. Same was received in the form of a CCRKBA e-mail alert.





CALIFORNIA ALERT
Four anti-gun bills were recently passed by the California legislature and are on their way to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's desk. The bills are:

AB50 (.50 caliber BMG rifle ban/registration)


SB1140 (expanded child access restrictions)


SB1152 (ammunition purchase registration/thumbprint)


SB1733 (Cow Palace gun show ban)




California residents must contact the governor's office as soon as possible and politely urge Governor Schwarzenegger to veto all four of the bills.


Write, e-mail, fax or call:


Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

State Capitol Building

Sacramento, CA 95814


Email: http://www.govmail.ca.gov


Phone: (916) 445-2841

Fax: (916) 445-4633

Re reference to the anti-gun/anti civil rights/anti common sense legislation passed by the state legislature, the following questions come to mind.

1. Did Governor Schwartzenegger make any attempt to lobby the legislature in OPPOSITION to enactment of the above mentioned, when he could have done so?
2. Re petitioning his veto of any or all of the above mentioned, assuming that he made no efforts to stop enactment, are such attempts realistic? I'm not saying that they should not be made, obviously they should be. I merely ask if there is a realistic basis for such efforts, based on the governor's past performance and history?
3. The electorate, including gun owners and shooters in California dumped Governor Davis, who was certainly no friend of gun rights. Fair enough, but is what you got any real improvement?
4. This last might be a dumb question, so please bear with me. It's been a very long time since I lived in California, 34 years to be more or less exact, and I might well be really out of touch with things there. Never-the-less, I wonder as to whether the preponderance of anti gun voters is so great as to preclude constructive changes in the make-up of the state legislature, which seems to be the seat of problems regarding guns and gun rights in California.

[redhead]

1733, the Cow Palace gun show ban, is actually dead for this sesssion.

SB1733 update (http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs.shtml#sb1733)

[Jim March]

I have suspected SB1733 is dead, but am not 100% sure. I'll be confirming it's mortality tomorrow. It has certainly been deeply on the ropes; if the NRA's info is correct (and it probably is) it appears Arnold's staff signalled to the author that there was "no way", and Speier put it in the inactive file rather than send it to the Governor.

I'll report tomorrow AM for sure. I have however been saying for a LONG time that I very much doubted Arnold would ever sign it, as "Recall Davis" petitions were floated there.

If SB1733 was the one most likely to get vetoed, SB1152 would be the next most likely...I put that one as having a better than 75% chance of seeing a veto. After that, SB1140 and AB50 are...unpredictable, although I think at least one will go down in flames.

[thadoger]

I just finished writing my letter to Ah-nold to. I fear I may appear foolish because I also wrote that he please make another Conan movie. I apologize if I made any of my fellow California gun owners angry. C'mon though who can forget the lines.

Mongol General : We have won again. That is good! But what is best in life?
Mongol General : The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist, wind in your hair!
Mongol General : Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
Conan : To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General : That is good.

If anyone feels I should leave out the comment about the movie please dont hesitate to reply.

[Can'thavenuthingood]

Naw, leave it in and sign off with the:

"crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women! "

Don't say please, say you are patiently waiting.

Vick

[thadoger]

Roger Will Do SAH ! hahahah :)

[alan]

Jim March:

One or perhaps more of the objectionable proposals might "die" or be vetoed, however it seems that that is never the end of the thing, for they, like perenial flowers, always come back.

Obviously, the problem lies in and with the make-up of the state legislature, and the appearence that the make-up of that body seems beyond improvement, or do I paint an overly dim picture?

On more thing, items mentined in the following link, SB1733 update, a post by redhead, several pieces of LOCAL LEGISLATION or ordinances, which seem to fly in the fact of preemption enacted in 1968, as I recall, during the time period when I lived in Oakland. Has that preemption business been repealed or otherwise bit the dust?

[Drjones]

Bump.

[MikeHaas]

[Objectionable wording removed.]

SB1733 didn't pass. It's been out of the running FOR DAYS - was stalled in the Assembly on Aug 26... nearly a week ago! NRA's had the info up since then.

THREE bills on the gov desk, SB1152, SB1140 and AB50. See http://nramemberscouncils.com/legs/gov/ for talking points, pre-written letters, roll-your-own and option to email OR FAX your message.

And... I don't think they 'guess' too often. Seems they don't post info unless they know it to be accurate.

Mike

[Jim March]

There's a difference between between "moribund" and "dead and can't possible come back". But whatever. It IS absolutely dead now.

[redhead]

I just mailed my letter - now we'll see what the governator does. I've already sent emails, but I'm not sold on email.

[Drjones]

BUMP!!!!!


CALL AND WRITE!!!!!!!

[SIGarmed]

The governor left New York already and he's on his way back.
Make sure he hears from you!

[Drjones]

BUMP.