Beretta Storm idea, whaddya think?


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swingset
August 30, 2004, 03:25 AM
Bought a Cx4 Storm and of course I MUST accessorize the thing. So, armed with photoshop and a some product pics I dreamed this up as my ideal setup. Seem like a decent setup?

http://home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/storm_concept.jpg

I can get all the stuff to do it, the rails from Beretta, the red dot obviously and the vertical grip, but the brake has me baffled. To be honest, it doesn't need it that much, it has very little recoil with std. loads but with +P and shooting for speed it would help and let's face it brakes look cool. That's the one part I may wait on, since it's more cosmetic than functional.

Oh crud, just realized I forgot to add the 30 round mag! Oh well, imagine 1' of magazine sticking out the bottom! :D

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Darkside
August 30, 2004, 03:41 AM
OHHHH NOOOOO.

I can see it now. Beretta Cx4 Storm, preferred weapon of MALL NINJA's nation wide :D :D :D

It does score some points for the cool factor, even with out a bayo lug. :D

Darkside

swingset
August 30, 2004, 04:31 AM
Well, mall ninja looks aside, all my mods make sense for what I want. The sights are good, but not fast and I want to use it for a home defense carbine so a vertical grip is handy. The brake isn't really useful, just thought it would be fun. Might come in handy if I do a course or carbine shoot with it.

I'm busy doing a trigger job on it now, that's the only thing I dislike is the very hard trigger. It's around 9 or 10 lbs, and I'm relatively sure I can get that down quite a bit and still have reliable ignition.

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 04:48 AM
I think one set up as you have described would be just plain FUN FUN FUN. I have even though about getting one to burn up the 2000 rounds of 9mm I have setting around. :D

Another option would be a fake suppressor. I would look somewhat/kinda/slightly like a FN90 suppressed.

I thought those things were suppose to have decent triggers on them???

Let us know how the trigger job works out :) .

Darkside

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 05:00 AM
PhotoShopped it a little more:D I don't even know if this is dooable or not?

Darkside

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 05:09 AM
Just thought of this.

Look over at www.kurtskustomfirearms.com There has been some people asking him about some of the same mods.

Darkside

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 05:24 AM
Photoshop MKII edition:D Added a fake suppressor, riser block and Aimpioned the reddot and added a surefire w/tape switch.

This is kinda fun:)

Darkside

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 05:45 AM
OK..OK... Last one;)

How about an SBR/Full auto???

Darkside

swingset
August 30, 2004, 06:14 AM
Keep 'em coming! I'm getting dizzy! :D

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 06:18 AM
OK, this IS the last one.

The Ultimate, No holds barred, ALL UP, Christmas tree, Berretta Cx4 storm EBR.

I know way too much time on my hands.:D

It has been fun:)

Darkside

swingset
August 30, 2004, 06:25 AM
Yo! Dat's Da Bomb! hehe.

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 06:28 AM
One with the surefire in place of the vet. grip.

Darkside

Darkside
August 30, 2004, 06:33 AM
Should have slipped in tactical and modular in the description somewhere.:D

I think I may have just created a NEW SCRATCH that needs itch'n:what:

Darkside

(this might just get expensive):cuss:

ROAshooter
August 30, 2004, 09:29 AM
Swingset-Darkside ..........you guys are having too much fun.........and Im with ya all the way!!!!!!!
Just hope you are not attacked soon by the ubertactical.......and given the lecture of your waste of time and money........and how much better off you would be if you would just pay attention to those who know better......but in the mean time..have fun........as I do....the cx4 is a blast to shoot!!!!!!

Tamara
August 30, 2004, 09:56 AM
Do LE Storms have collapsable stocks? I can't remember...

Fly320s
August 30, 2004, 11:11 AM
Yeah, you need a telescoping stock and some form of a spare magazine holder on the buttstock.

And, where's the three point sling?!?!:D

jem375
August 30, 2004, 11:43 AM
:barf: :barf: :barf:

Harry Tuttle
August 30, 2004, 12:38 PM
the closer the reddot is to the end of the barrel the quicker the "RDoD" effect materializes
IMHO, this one should be moved up:
http://www.berettaweb.com/Beretta%20CX4_Storm/CX4_10.gif
http://www.berettaworld.com/Moduli/ContentManager/publicimg/Cx4storm_IMG1.jpg

bigger:
http://dealer.berettausa.com/view/gp.cfm?photoid=101110&type=3


the stock Beretta Storm suppressor is a tiny thing

ROAshooter
August 30, 2004, 12:39 PM
didnt take jem long...can sigfan be far behind,,,,,,,???

Flatfender
August 30, 2004, 12:43 PM
I think they should come in different colors and in camo.

I'm waiting for the 45acp one to come out.

ROAshooter
August 30, 2004, 12:44 PM
:D :D :D

















life is too short to be,,,,,,,,narrow minded

zougou
August 30, 2004, 01:04 PM
I think you need to convert it to belt-fed if it has 'da switch.' :D

41mag
August 30, 2004, 03:07 PM
Looks great!Needs a snail drum mag though!

15,17,30 rounds just aint enough!

Kurt
August 30, 2004, 03:10 PM
cx4

:barf: :barf: :barf:














Life could be very short ........ without intelligent decisions.

Harry Tuttle
August 30, 2004, 03:21 PM
i wanna see one in white with black accents

it would be just the thing for hunting Wookies on an imperial star destroyer

AirPower
August 30, 2004, 03:57 PM
After AWB, it should be legal to have pistol grip on that thing right? Is there anything mechnical in the thumbhole stock of Storm CSX? If not, may be a collapsable stock can be put on instead of the current stock. Storm with MP5 collapsable stock, that'll look nice.

PBIR
August 30, 2004, 04:18 PM
One of the regualars at our range has a storm dressed out like the second concept you posted. He has a vertical foregrip, full-length upper picatinny, red dot optic and a few 30 round mags. Currently he is contemplating a Streamlight M6. With the current red-dot it's cake to quickly put 'em all in a single, fist-sized hole at 25 yards.

355sigfan
August 30, 2004, 08:25 PM
Well its no secret I am no fan of the concept but if it were mine. I would SBR it after the AWB expiration then get the barrel threaded for a Gemtech suppressor. Then would make it ideal for killing stray dogs for the animal control guys.
Pat

355sigfan
August 30, 2004, 08:48 PM
Actually here is what the storm should have been. A storm in 223.

Pat

Darkside
August 31, 2004, 03:19 AM
355sigfan, MAN, Arrnooodd would have a hard time getting his mitts around that grip.:D

A LEO friend of mine said his dept is getting just such a carbine for critter control. They already have a suppressor on a 22 that rides in the trunk of his squad. He works for a VERY small town and they have an incredible cat and dog problem. All the sick cats and dogs are drawing in coyotes making the citizens very nervous.

I am not the worlds biggest fan of the 9mm. But thought about getting one of these to help burn up some of the stuff my Hi-Power doesn't:D

Plus I think the kids would just have a ball with it.:) They are 6-9 and both have their own ARFs:D OH NO, it just dawned on me that If I bring one of these things home I will have to get another.;)

Darkside

AirPower
August 31, 2004, 03:23 AM
I got inspired by this thread so here is the result of my photoshop work. :D

After AWB go away, there should be no restrictions whatsoever about folding stock and flash hiders, so why not have Beretta modify the CX4 to reflect this situation? If Beretta would also solve the reliability and QC problems, the Storm could easily rival MP5 in firepower, portability, and versatility to become an effective LE and civilian carbine.

Aside from threading the muzzle to accept flash hiders or other compensators, it only requires one other change. There is no vital mechanical component in the thumbhole stock, so Beretta could just add an endcap to the rear of the carbine. They could then use the endcap to mount an M4 style collapsible stock (pic 1). This would result in minimal manufacturing change to the CX4. A more involved route is to use MP5 retractable stock (pic 2) and alter the polymer housing for the retractable arms. This would make the carbine even more compact.

http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2004-08-29/Adam1_1093934240_Beretta-CX4-custom2.jpg
http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2004-08-29/Adam1_1093932030_Beretta-CX4-custom1.jpg

Darkside
August 31, 2004, 04:02 AM
I would have to do some searching but I think that there are some min. OAL measurements that are not under the AWB, don't quote me on this. I would just have to check.

Airpower, Did you intend to attech some pics? :D

Darkside

355sigfan
August 31, 2004, 04:07 AM
Don't quote me on it but I belive the min overall lenght for a rifle is 26 inches. Again I may be off on the figure.
Pat

Darkside
August 31, 2004, 04:10 AM
355sigfan, That was the same number I was thinking, but wasn't sure. Is that number established buy the AWB or another law?

Darkside

355sigfan
August 31, 2004, 04:13 AM
Not the AWB I belive its under the machine gun laws way back in the 30's.
Pat

Darkside
August 31, 2004, 04:32 AM
Ok, If my cyfer'n is correct this thing is 29.72" long from the factory. That means if a colapsable stock of some sort is used you would only gain/reduce the OAL by about 3.5"

My question is, Is it worth while to reduce the OAL by such a small amount?

I know when you shorten the AR's into the 10.5" SBR the thing gets incrediably handy. It also takes an extra $200 in some states to get the shorty stamp of approval :(

I guess a lot will depend on what Goodies start comming out for the Storm.

Darkside

Darkside
August 31, 2004, 05:12 AM
Swingset, How is that trigger job comming???? There might be a STORM brewing in Kansas:D

Did some checking over at Kurts and it looks like no problem on the flash hider instal.

Did someone say they have/had seen 30 round mags for this thing?:)

Darkside

Dbl0Kevin
August 31, 2004, 11:06 AM
I was under the impression that the minimum lenght for a rifle had to be met with the stock EXTENDED and thus it could be smaller than that with the stock folded or collapsed. Am I mistaken?

Harry Tuttle
August 31, 2004, 11:55 AM
i picked up some Berretta SB 30 rounders that should work in the Storm

heres a shorty i rendered awhile ago:
http://premium.uploadit.org/docZox/CX4shorty.jpg

AirPower
August 31, 2004, 12:16 PM
I thought the pics I modified would be showing?

I believe the overall length must be 26" where as barrel must be 16". The measurement is when the folding stock is fully extended.

Coronach
August 31, 2004, 12:42 PM
I asked this a while ago.

The problem with putting a real suppressor on it (at least with a threaded bbl) is 1989, not the AWB. And 1989 isn't going away.

Now, there might be a way around that, but I'm gonna hold off until 1. the .45ACP storms are out and 2. the AWB has drawn its last breath before I try to figure it out for sure.

Mike

Dan Forrester
August 31, 2004, 01:28 PM
The problem with putting a real suppressor on it (at least with a threaded bbl) is 1989, not the AWB. And 1989 isn't going away.

Say What! SBR the thing, cut back and thread the barrel. Screw suppressor on.

I think the 1989 ban was an import ban. You might be confused with the 1986 machine gun ban which put a stop to the registration of new machine guns.

I currently have a Gemtech Trinity clearing the ATF. I plan on picking up a CX4 and a Beretta 92. I want to SBR and thread the CX4 for the suppressor, as well as thread the barrel on the 92. Then I would have an interchangeable suppressor and mags (which I would have at least 20 of). As for three point slings, red dots, or that ridiculous front grip, no thanks. Ever notice how there’s two type of people: People who love add on accessories, and those who just have a ton of mags. :D

Dan

355sigfan
August 31, 2004, 01:53 PM
Actually the AWB is what killed the supprressors and the barrel threading not the semi auto import ban. Once the guns have made it into the country you can do what you want to them with the 1989 ban. For example to get enough points baby glocks were imported with adjustable sights. These sights are scapped once they hit the country and are replaced with good night sights or fixed sights.
Pat

Coronach
August 31, 2004, 01:54 PM
The Beretta is manufactured in Italy. It is an imported gun. In order to legally turn it from Happy Fun Rifle into Evil Black Ninja Rifle, it needs to have a certain number of US-made parts.

Mike

Coronach
August 31, 2004, 01:58 PM
To clarify:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89418&highlight=storm+and+suppressor

And heck, if I'm wrong about this, sweet. Game on.

Mike

Tamara
August 31, 2004, 03:05 PM
For example to get enough points baby glocks were imported with adjustable sights.

The Glock is imported that way due to pistol points system that is part of GCA '68 (intended to keep out 'saturday night specials'), not the Bush Ban of '89.

To turn a thumbhole-stocked imported rifle into an EBR post-'89, one needs to exploit a loophole in the law by replacing a certain number of its imported parts with a certain number of US-made ones, thus transforming it from an "import" into a "domestic".

Darkside
September 1, 2004, 12:34 PM
Let work on a parts count.

Requirements, Easily changed out and Easily manufactured in the USA.

Would these count?
1. Front sight
2. Rear sight
3. Charging Handle
4. Mag. release
5. Saftey


Are there ANY parts that come off the 92's that can be used on this thing? My understanding is that for the US miltary contract the 92 had to be manufactured in the US.

Darkside

Tamara
September 1, 2004, 12:39 PM
Are there ANY parts that come off the 92's that can be used on this thing?

Other than the magazine? I doubt it.

HankB
September 1, 2004, 01:36 PM
Tamara: . . . one needs to exploit a loophole in the law . . . Shame on you, Tamara. We shouldn't talk about exploiting loopholes in the law . . . we should talk about complying with the requirements of the law. ;)

(Antigunners talk about loopholes all the time when they cry about companies like Bushmaster removing the flash hider and evil bayonet lug from their rifles . . . we shouldn't do the same.)

I think parts like magazine body, follower, and floorplate would count as US-made parts . . . they do on FALs . . . so wouldn't that count as three parts right there?

So now . . . what else is there to work with?

Darkside
September 1, 2004, 01:51 PM
I would think that there would be some stamped parts that could easily be made in the USA by a manufacture or a small shop. Maybe even made by a good home machinest. Maybe even some round parts.(firing pin??)


Darkside

MAUSER88
September 1, 2004, 04:06 PM
Now that's my kind of Storm!!!!

Fly320s
September 1, 2004, 08:01 PM
That does it!

There has to be someone on this forum who has access to machining/manufacturing. Let's get some US made parts going, get it all approved by the B.A.T.F. and E., and get busy with the modifying.

:D

Gifted
September 1, 2004, 09:39 PM
I think you just add a flash hider, a dot sight, and maybe a flashlight on it.

You would, however, have to get some of this to go with it:
http://www.nightmarearmor.com/
(Note: It wasn't working for me, gave me some strange error. I'll see if you guys have any trouble with it.

Mannlicher
September 1, 2004, 10:15 PM
Another perfectly good weapon, 'mall ninjaed' to death. What a waste of money and time.

355sigfan
September 1, 2004, 10:41 PM
Another perfectly good weapon, 'mall ninjaed' to death. What a waste of money and time.

END QUOTE

Some things are a waste of money somethings are worth their weight in gold. For example if a longgun is to be used for homedefense a weapon mounted light is essential. Target identification is not an option its your responsiblity. Optics like the Eotech allow you to shoot far faster and far more accurately. After the 3 gun match the cops with Iron sights were bitching about how unfair it was myself and a few others had Eotech's and Aimpoints. They got beat. Some of those same cops are now asking about where to purchase good optics. I will take every edge I can get in a gun fight.
Pat

Dbl0Kevin
September 2, 2004, 12:51 AM
Another perfectly good weapon, 'mall ninjaed' to death. What a waste of money and time.

Some people think spending thousands of dollars on an old single action revolver from the 1800's is a waste of money. If someone likes to add accessories and personalize a gun why would it be a waste of money? I like guns because they are my hobby along with an important part of my career and life. A part of the reason I like guns so much is that you can get them in many configurations and personalize them to your liking much like with cars.

Warner
September 2, 2004, 02:11 AM
quote.....

Some people think spending thousands of dollars on an old single action revolver from the 1800's is a waste of money. If someone likes to add accessories and personalize a gun why would it be a waste of money?



When looking at a photo of a non-stock or uncommon gun, it’s hard NOT to make a personal judgment over whatever “improvements” were made, and sometimes even who would decide to own such a firearm. That’s where I believe some distain or even minor jesting might come in over a tricked-out CX-4.

For many, a very different mental image comes to mind when you contrast the owner of an 1800’s single action (or pre-’64 Model 70, 5-screw Smith, etc.) to those who are fond of such an accessorized Beretta Storm.

It’s just human nature.

swingset
September 2, 2004, 05:30 AM
Another perfectly good weapon, 'mall ninjaed' to death. What a waste of money and time.

Hmmmm.....vertical foregrip. Comfortable and fast. Makes maneuvering or cornering very easy for movement in tight quarters. Ever shot a carbine with one? Thought not.

Rails to add illuminator/laser. Ever shot with black sights in the dark? Hit anything? Thought not.

Red dot sight/cowitness irons. Faster acquisition and true backup incase of failure. Ever shot for speed? Do very good against dot shooters with your irons? Thought not.

You waste your time berating my idea, and I'll waste mine improving it. Fair enough?

Warner
September 2, 2004, 11:43 AM
Yikes!....... An old truism says that you don’t have to be too concerned about talking to yourself … until you start getting some answers.

Now my thoughts can’t help but go to pondering whether the pistol carbine proponents should be cut some real slack, and maybe even be given a closer parking spot.

While we appear to be on the same side of the debate, I have trouble with Mannlicher’s premise that we’re starting with a “perfectly good weapon”.

Accessories aside, I look forward to further discussions that would help one understand the process of just when the 9X19 became a desirable round for a serious semiauto long gun, and also the merits (or not) of this particular one.

swingset
September 3, 2004, 12:12 AM
Accessories aside, I look forward to further discussions that would help one understand the process of just when the 9X19 became a desirable round for a serious semiauto long gun, and also the merits (or not) of this particular one.

The 9x19 parabellum was considered a serious military round when Germany armed thousands with the venerable MP40. That round took countless lives, unfortunately.

The MP5 has and continues to serve admirably chambered in 9mm all over the world.

Are there better rounds? Yes, but 20 rounds of 9mm+P+ in an accurate, light and handy carbine are not BB's. Think you could survive a few to your center mass? If you're in any doubt, then 9mm might not be so anemic.

355sigfan
September 3, 2004, 12:21 AM
The 9x19 parabellum was considered a serious military round when Germany armed thousands with the venerable MP40. That round took countless lives, unfortunately.

The MP5 has and continues to serve admirably chambered in 9mm all over the world.

Are there better rounds? Yes, but 20 rounds of 9mm+P+ in an accurate, light and handy carbine are not BB's. Think you could survive a few to your center mass? If you're in any doubt, then 9mm might not be so anemic.
END QUOTE

The 9mm is a very respectable pistol round. However its stopping power pales compared to rifle rounds like the 223. The day of the MP40 was about the last days of the submachine guns real viablity. Assault rifles were just on the horizon at the point. The German Mp44 was a notable exception. It was the first assault rifle and a better gun to have if you were a german at the time. Submachine guns have been slowly dropped from general use by the military first and later they were replaced in law enforcement by 223 carbines. Pistol rounds just do not have the destructive power of a rifle round. This is why I have the pistol caliber carbine concept. If your in need of a rilfe your likly to need the power that comes with it. Pistol caliber carbines do not have this power. They are simply handguns that allow you to hit more accurately at greater range. They do nothing for power.
Pat

jame
September 3, 2004, 12:31 AM
"If your in need of a rilfe your likly to need the power that comes with it. Pistol caliber carbines do not have this power. They are simply handguns that allow you to hit more accurately at greater range. They do nothing for power"

Agreed. (How 'bout THAT one, Pat?:D )

And when you want a lower powered round than a .223, but better than a .22LR delivered quickly and accurately, as in my case, the CX4 is perfect.

:evil:

355sigfan
September 3, 2004, 12:34 AM
Agreed. (How 'bout THAT one, Pat? )
END QUOTE

Ok group hug time.:D

Pat

El Rojo
September 3, 2004, 01:31 AM
Where is the M203 model? I would want one with an attached 40mm grenade launcher.

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