Where are the guns??


Mark Benningfield
February 20, 2003, 02:42 AM
Hello All.

I just finished watching "Signs" starring Mel Gibson. (Yeah, I'm behind the times on movies.) Anyhow, the whole time, I'm sitting here wondering when the good guys are going to get the shotguns out of the closet to blast the alien bad guys with. And you know what? They NEVER do! They manage to cower in the basement (2 grown men trying to protect 2 children) and hope the alien bad guys can't get to them!!!!! This is taking place on a farm, for crying out loud! These guys never even mentioned that it sure would be nice to have some guns. They finally managed to take down the one alien bad guy with a baseball bat, for Pete's sake. You know, I realize that Hollywood is out of touch with the real world, but come on!!

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February 20, 2003, 02:57 AM
Mel Gibson is a sellout.:neener: I used to be a big fan until I saw What Women Want. I just can't watch him anymore.:barf:

February 20, 2003, 04:55 AM
I said the same thing to my wife while watching the movie. I grew up on a farm and couldn't imagine not having at the least the obligitory shotgun, .22 rifle and .30-.30. She then reminded me that Gibson's part in the movie was of a former priest. Very possible that he wouldn't own a gun. Besides, having access to a gun and knowing how to use it would make a whole lot of movies pretty short.:D :D

February 20, 2003, 05:47 AM
and I can say the farmers in bucks cty have enough guns avaiable to arm a full division. especially with 11/87 remington shotguns with full length magazine tubes(std gun for deer hunting in the area) Signs was a wast of time and liberal propaganda

El Tejon
February 20, 2003, 06:53 AM
Dad, gee, I wonder we if know any priests who own firearms?:D

February 20, 2003, 07:43 AM
That was the clincher for me. It wasn't just a farm, it was a farm in rural Pennsylfriggingvania, where deer hunting is more than a pastime, it's a religion, an obsession, a mental disorder. Those people close the schools for the opening day of deer season, fer cryin' out loud, and I'm supposed to believe that Mel's character ain't got a gun 'cause he's a man of the cloth?

Kahr carrier
February 20, 2003, 08:34 AM
Heck they could of had at least a WATER GUN .:neener:

February 20, 2003, 08:37 AM
JMLV: Are PA farmers with crop protection permits (or whatever they are, the permits that let farmers kill any deer eating their crops) exempt from the law against hunting with a semiauto? Or does that restriction only apply to rifles?


February 20, 2003, 09:35 AM
"Mel Gibson is a sellout. I used to be a big fan until I saw What Women Want. I just can't watch him anymore."

Reminds me of what comedian Tim Wilson said:
If there was a movie called "What Men Want", it would be 10 minutes long, rated XXX, with sports highlights.

February 20, 2003, 09:44 AM
Tamara- Ahh yes...I remember getting the day off on the first day of buck season and getting the "flu" on the first day of doe season back when I was in PA :D

Oleg Volk
February 20, 2003, 10:08 AM
Gibson is probably trying ot make a living. I recall him acting in Mad Max series and Patriot, so he's not above handling a weapon. Blame screenwriter and director :)

J Miller
February 20, 2003, 10:14 AM
This movie was pure trash. From the first time the aliens were playing tag around the farm I was asking my wife were are darn guns? Every farm has guns, at least a shot gun!
The anti gun message was obvious in this movie just by the lack of them. Only the cops had guns and they were correctly inefectual.
I really wish there was a way to screen out the anti gun propaganda movies without haveing to pay to watch them first.

Sometimes you can just by looking at the actors and directors, sometimes you can't.

February 20, 2003, 10:24 AM
Don't blame Gibson, blame Shamalyan (sp?).

While I really enjoyed "Sixth Sense" and "Unbreakable", I was astounded at how dreadful "Signs" was :barf: . My wife enjoyed it, but I was about ready to slit my own wrists to get out of that theater :what: .

Farmers w/o guns...
Aliens doing unnatural things to corn...
Main characters w/ glassy-eyed stares talking gibberish...
Two grown men cowering in a cellar when BG's are threatening their children...

I think the movie would have been much better if Shamalyan (sp?) had actually GONE to farm country to see how people would have reacted to such an invasion :banghead: . Heck, had he come to Texas farm country, "Signs" would have been about 30 minutes of actual fighting and the remaining 90 minutes in a taxidermy shop trying to figure out how to STUFF the darn things :evil: .

"Signs" = :barf:

Pappy John
February 20, 2003, 10:43 AM
I remember leaving the theater with my wife and commenting that ,regardless of all the hype, it really wasn't all that scary. "Nothing there that some 230gr hardball wouldn't have fixed."

Steve Smith
February 20, 2003, 11:01 AM
"They all fall to hardball"


February 20, 2003, 11:45 AM
While I thought the same things mentioned here, I came to the conclusion that he had gotten rid of any guns due to the death of his wife/depression/fear of committing suicide. That's a pretty common reason for people getting rid of guns in their house, from my experience. Not that it solves anything, it just makes it more difficult.

February 20, 2003, 12:00 PM
Suggestion for research for the sequel: Dress up a group of hollywood actors as greys, and have 'em approach random farmhouses at random times of the day.

February 20, 2003, 01:06 PM
where deer hunting is more than a pastime, it's a religion, an obsession, a mental disorder.Hey! Watch it!

Those people close the schools for the opening day of deer season, fer cryin' out loudAnd for the record, I took the whole week off. Somebody had to show the rest of those dummies how to hunt. Hmmm...could be part of the reason I ain't got no fancy book-learnin'.

D'oh! ;)

February 20, 2003, 01:35 PM

Can we all relax for 2 hours and just enjoy the story as it is? While the question of "Where is the shotgun?" when the alien was scurrying around the house came to my mind, it doesn't automatically make me deem the movie "liberal propaganda" and "trash."

If it's "liberal propaganda," why does faith in God play such a large role in the movie?

February 20, 2003, 01:56 PM
Yes they are allowed to use rifles for this(Joe has actually shot deer in the corn field out of his bedroom window while still in his underware!) One produce farmer in the area estamates he loses close to $100,000 per year to deer due to crop damage. Joe has a neat sendero in 7mm magnum as well as a few other neat toys.
I don't thibnk semi auto's are allowed no matter what. Thats PA hunting regs.

February 20, 2003, 02:27 PM
JMLV: I asked because I was just wondering about your previous post, when you mentioned the 11/87, since thats a semiautomatic shotgun. The 870 is Remington's pump action.


February 20, 2003, 02:27 PM
I saw "Signs" other day also, and I said to my wife and neighbors "Where are the shotguns? I have never know a farmer that did not own at else one shotgun for varmit control." It was a pretty lame movie.

February 20, 2003, 03:51 PM
A sell out.....?

You didnt find anything redeaming about his involvement in The Patriot?

How about Mad Max. Or the new Mad Max he is working on....


February 20, 2003, 04:58 PM
For some reason unknown to civilized man the ruleing against semiautos only applies to rifles and handguns. Shotguns are exempt. they are also allowed to have extended magazine tubes and load them to capicity. I think this has something to do with the county (Bucks) going to "shotgun only" for deer season for regular hunters.

February 20, 2003, 05:05 PM
Yeah my brother went to Penn State which is an academic island deep in the heart of Pennsyltucky. (Pennsylvania is Pittsburg in the west, Philadelphia in the east, and Kentucky in between.) One of his friends decided to go off campus and do his sidewalk pseudo-religious satire routine about the "Egg God of College Students." About 10 minutes after he starts in the local Sheriff walks up and says "Son, why don't you boys head on back to school because I can hear the shotguns cocking from here."

February 20, 2003, 05:11 PM
I liked it, gun goofs and all. It's just a movie. I grew up in rural PA and knew lots of folks who would have been in the same fix as Mel. Hell, maybe they did consider including guns and decided a 5 minute movie would be a bad idea.

February 20, 2003, 05:20 PM
A director of western movies was asked why they'd NEVER shoot the horses. :confused: He answered, "Because then it would be over too fast!" :D

What's the mightiest weapon in the universe?

The script. ;)

February 20, 2003, 08:53 PM
Signs was boring. A great story told poorly.

Rent 12 Monkeys or Boondock Saints.

February 20, 2003, 09:19 PM
It's because Mel Gibson's character was a priest. I realize it's a hard concept for many on these gun forums to grasp, but clergy aren't supposed to use guns. Some Protestant pastors in the south I'm sure do and many church folk like to brag about taking firearms to church, but holy grounds are supposed to be off limits to weapons -- or they should be. Clergy aren't encouraged to handle firearms and unless I'm mistaken, it's forbidden for clergy of the Catholic faith to carry weapons. But then I'm Sicilian so maybe the Church has changed in more ways than one these days...

Yes, Gibson's character was supposed to have left his faith but everyone still acknowledged him as "Father." He returns to the church at the end of the film so I can't imagine in the interim he'd run out and buy a shotgun. He appeared to cling to his beliefs despite his anger with God. Hang tight folks, I'm sure he'll pull out the Beretta for his next film -- maybe a Lethal Weapon sequel?:D

Don Gwinn
February 20, 2003, 09:30 PM
Mastro, you might want to ask Preacherman about this before you're too sure. I think he may have an opinion.

Also, I wonder how Saint Possenti became the Patron Saint of Shootists if he was sinning by picking up that pistol. ;)

Then there's St. Erasmus, the Patron Saint of Munitions Workers.

February 20, 2003, 09:35 PM
Mastrogiacomo- Well that was condescending. So if I say that I carry a gun in church, I'm bragging?

six 4 sure
February 20, 2003, 11:33 PM
Well if I get trapped in my house(ok it a trailer) when the alien horde invades, I plan on fighting back with more than a baseball bat and some glasses of water.

I think I'll sit in the middle of the trailer with ammo piled at my feet and take turns shooting holes through the walls with my AR and M14. That should keep them at bay for awhile. Now I'm having a vision of my trailer looking like Mel's from LW2.:D


February 21, 2003, 12:15 AM
A Catholic priest I know personally told me, "Remember, you can never have too many guns."

This same priest hosts a game dinner at his church every year.

:what: :D

February 21, 2003, 08:21 AM
If the church has allowed Priest to carry, that's news to me. Regarding the bragging comment -- yes, I heard people bragging about bringing their guns to church services. I think it's in poor taste since I always leave my weapons at home on Sundays when I go to Mass. My opinion is that it shows a lack of respect for the church and teaches children it's OK to bring weapons into a holy place -- never a school but thumbs up in the house of God. Obviously, people don't feel safe in churches anymore. A sad commentary on the state of things these days I guess. :rolleyes:

February 21, 2003, 09:08 AM
Clergy aren't encouraged to handle firearms and unless I'm mistaken, it's forbidden for clergy of the Catholic faith to carry weapons.

For the sin of hubris, I'm sure Preacherman would be delighted to hear your confession. Maybe the padre could offer you a few shooting tips, too.

Go now, and sin no more. ;)

February 21, 2003, 09:08 AM
BAD GUYS do bad things even in churches!
There is even a book on one such occurance where a CCw saved the lives of many folks by simply being able to fight back.

February 21, 2003, 09:26 AM
Well, I wasn't aware not carrying a gun is a sin I needed to go to confession for. I always thought you confess when've you've hurt people or strayed from the teachings of God. I'm sure bad things do happen in church but citizens shouldn't do the jobs of the police and I don't read of church shootings nearly as much as I do in drive by shootings, on subways, in front of homes, etc. Maybe you live in a more dangerous area...and again, if you don't feel you can go to church and be safe, I feel sorry for you. Maybe you should watch the Mass on television instead of risking your life every Sunday.:cool:

February 21, 2003, 09:49 AM
Mastrogiacomo- Sweet! I didn't know that the job of the police was to provide me with armed protection 24/7! Thanks for letting us all know!

I never really understood why people have to put on their "Sunday face". So its okay for me to carry six days out of the week but God shall smite me on Sunday when I step foot into a church?

Also, I think you missed Tamara's point. Hubris is pride. You are looking down your nose at everybody that CCWs in church without any clear justification. This is prideful.

El Tejon
February 21, 2003, 09:52 AM
Mastro, didn't my ancestors out in Massachusetts make it a requirement that church service attendees bring their weapons to church on Sunday so that they may be inspected by a deacon?;)

February 21, 2003, 10:20 AM
Well, I don't know who your ancesters are...mine are from Sicily so I wouldn't know whom you're referring to. We used shotguns in the fields in Sicily but --believe it or not -- no one takes a shotgun or firearm with them to church. I know...it's incrediable. What are they thinking??:eek: If ever a shotgun was necessary in it's a church, right?

I don't look down at people that carry in church. I just feel sorry for you to live in such a dangerous environment that even a church provides you with no solace. I've had three former school mates murdered in my city. One girl picked up in front of her house and taken to a prostition ring in Revere (she escaped) a murder across the street, a rape down the street -- but no murders or out of the norm activity of any kind in the church. I don't carry because we told it's a holy place and off limits for carrying weapons. I don't know -- maybe Sicilians are just a bunch of dumb dagos after all..you think? Seriously what a stupid attitude to have about guns and church.banghead:

February 21, 2003, 10:59 AM
When Jesus urged his disciples to "sell his cloak so that he might buy a sword," I guess he forgot to mention the part about leaving it home when you go to the synagogue...:D

If you're interested in "Pistol Packin' Preachers", try looking on this site...

Christian Sixgunners (http://www.christiansixgunners.org)

February 21, 2003, 11:30 AM
Back on topic, while guns would have solved the problem immediatley, the aliens were not the theme of the movie. They were a catalyst for gibson to regain his faith and realise all is good in the world. If he had guns, it would have been over in 20 minutes, and no faith resolved, which was the point ofthe movie.

February 21, 2003, 12:08 PM
All I know is that it would be VERY noisy in my house with padre Mels circumstance

February 21, 2003, 12:12 PM
Also with all do respect I think that Churches are becoming especially good targets right about now, but one will have to make the decision to carry bwtween ones self and God.

February 21, 2003, 12:17 PM
Shotguns not necessary in church??? :eek: Haven't you seen those John Woo movies with all those doves flying around the sanctuary, they might poop in the holy water and communion bread :D (that's why I pack dual Berettas)

As for bragging about bringing a gun to church, I won't, but I WILL brag if I end up with a CA CCW, the state's most coveted slip of paper!!!

AJ Dual
February 21, 2003, 12:24 PM
"We the alien horde who crossed interstellar space to ravage your world, will not use our 'technology' because you primitive humans will 'go nuclear' and we find your women unappealing when contaminated by fallout...

Curses! We have been foiled by this strange human 'door and board' technology! We do not understand, how can this be! Let me out of this chamber of horrors! This torture box you humans call a 'Pantry'!"

Good directing, good acting, bad script... LOL

February 21, 2003, 01:53 PM
Heck, had he come to Texas farm country, "Signs" would have been about 30 minutes of actual fighting and the remaining 90 minutes in a taxidermy shop trying to figure out how to STUFF the darn things Something along the lines of a jack-a-lope perhaps? What about an alien-a-dillo? :evil: :evil: :evil:

February 21, 2003, 02:41 PM
the movie "The Birds" came out. I sat there wondering through the whole movie why they didn't just get their shotguns and have fun.....chris3

February 21, 2003, 02:56 PM
During the LA Riots I didn't even THINK of having a gun. Never occured to me. :confused: :o

A little older and a little less dumber now.

February 21, 2003, 06:03 PM
the movie "The Birds" came out. I sat there wondering through the whole movie why they didn't just get their shotguns and have fun.....chris3

Alfred Hitchcock vs. a dozen Texas quail hunters...:evil:

February 21, 2003, 07:28 PM
I think a Benelli black eagle with a full length magazine tube would be about right? # man teams back to back and let fly! COOL! Brings new meaning to the word "Pull"

February 21, 2003, 08:22 PM
Some Protestant pastors in the south I'm sure do and many church folk like to brag about taking firearms to church, but holy grounds are supposed to be off limits to weapons -- or they should be.Why?

If you need further prodding, perhaps you should contact the members of the Wedgwood Baptist Church in southwest Fort Worth.

No one has any business advocating the establishment of even more criminal-protection zones than already exist.

I don't know about you, but the lives of my family and fellow church-goers are just as valuable and worth protecting in church as they are elsewhere. To suggest otherwise is, to be blunt, absurd.

You do it the way you want in the Land of the Kennedy's. We'll do it our way in the land of the right-wing religious gun-nuts...:rolleyes:

February 22, 2003, 05:02 AM
True, I thought "Signs" fell short of what it could have been--an edge-of-your-seat film. One thing I did like, however, was that the director at least TRIED to replace gore with suspense. That he didn't accomplish this is a pity.

If I never live to see another Hollywood piece of trash that lazily splatters gore all over the screen in the absence of any real directing (or script writing) ability, I'll be ecstatic.

P.S. Maybe Mel was a Unitarian in the movie.

February 23, 2003, 01:52 AM
Finally sat down with the wife to watch this movie. I don't consider Mel to be a sellout. He's an actor, he gets paid to play a part. After watching Braveheart and Patriot a few times, it's hard to believe that he has an aversion to violence.

IMO, the movie was an attempt to merge "War of the Worlds" with "Close Encounters". Didn't quite make it.

In addition to the fact that no one in Rural PA seems to own a gun - except the cop - the aliens are even worse.

These big green guys travel through the galaxy and arrive at Earth. Crop circles everywhere as landing markers. Hundreds of spaceships show up - apparently it's an invasion.

So what do the aliens do, they get out and run around naked and unarmed, grabbing little kids and spraying them with gas. A few aliens get wet and they give up and go home.

You'd think that if some bad guys traveled trillions of miles to take over a planet, they'd have at least one good raygun. I never saw an alien on Star Trek that didn't have some kind of weapon.

I like Mel, but this movie was political correctness gone wild.

February 23, 2003, 02:23 AM
After all the hype,I couldn't resist.I rented this movie.
Here goes.
I agree that the director put good old fashioned suspense back in
a movie.The problem..the plot stunk!
How can aliens navigate a gazillion miles across space,
and then have to rely on "crop circles"?
It was pretty funny when the two kids and the Uncle were
sitting around with tin foil beanies,thats the kind of reaction
we here in California are proud of. :D
It was very frustrating to watch our heros best solution to
alien invasion was to go to the basement and hide.Whoever
wrote the script must be from California!
Youda thought that these members of an "intelligent race"
would have done a little robot recon before setting one claw
on terra firma to determine that the most abundant resource
on the planet will kill them!!
Even we humans check things out before sending in the troops!
And whats with that kid with the book on aliens?How come he
was only one with a copy?He knew more than the news people
and the government.
Well,I guess theres some truth there.
Whew,its late.I guess I'll go to bed.Wait.Whats that noise coming from the cornfield?


February 23, 2003, 02:28 AM
Lessee, priests with guns... Hmmm, priests with guns... There's something about priests with guns somewhere in this cranial database of mine...

Ah, yes! Here it is! John Moses Browning was a priest with guns. :)

February 23, 2003, 06:00 AM
I was yelling at the TV as well. But then I remembered he was a religious man.

I don’t think Mell is a sell out. Any body that can play roll of a man revenging his family and killing some 20 odd armed military solders with flintlocks and then hack the last persons head apart with a tomahawk is ok in my book.

I wonder if the Amish are armed?

February 23, 2003, 10:35 AM
After seeing this movie and realizing that Mel, being on a farm, somewhere, did not have a gun for any reason, namely for critters and protection, I went out that day and purchased my first gun, a remington 870 12 gauge with the 18 inch barrel for home defense. Now I am bitten by the gun bug and will be buying many more guns.

As to the movie its self. I found this movie to be a very good movie in my opinion. Being a religious person myself, this movie was very enjoyable. It was a man, Who had lost his faith in GOD, being shown that GOD was always there with him, even though he had turned his back on GOD.

February 23, 2003, 02:11 PM
This movie was filmed within ear shot of our range. I was always listening for the blasting going on in the background, but I guess it was edited out. I used to drive by the spot they were filming on the way to the range. They actually built the house just for the movie then removed it. By the way, the area it was filmed in is by no means rural, its has become very much built up and inhabited by yuppies, some of who have complained about the noise from our range. You know the drill, we moved here, so now stop doing what you've been doing for over 100 years. Luckily one of our Governors, a couple back, passed a bill preventing gun ranges here from being shut down for just this reason.

February 23, 2003, 05:49 PM
Even the most conservative mormon preist will agree that you have the right to defend yourself.

February 23, 2003, 09:07 PM
I ask becouse my friends family owns a range in the area. On land thats been in his falily for close to 100 years. This place is now a public range located on Mozart Rd. Known in the area as either "the Farm" or Wicens Farm. You know the place?

February 24, 2003, 05:56 AM
I belong to Bucks County Fish and Game, the one south of Doylestown behind the prison. Is the one your talking about off Sugar Bottom Road over in Buckingham Twp??

February 24, 2003, 07:47 AM
thats the one

February 24, 2003, 07:59 AM
Just wondering, whats the name of the range (might be just trap/skeet, its where I did some shotgun shooting for Boy Scouts about 7-8 years ago) thats real close to Kutz Elementary and the quarry outside of Doylestown?


February 24, 2003, 02:26 PM
Thats Bucks County Fish & Game Kharn. They have a bunch of different ranges, shotgun rifle and pistol.

February 24, 2003, 06:28 PM
Keep a few things in mind. This film is about Faith, not about monsters. It's also about one family dealing with a crisis so massive they seem powerless to confront it head on (again a place where faith may have a place).

What WAS lacking in the family watch CNN was the Churchill-Like speech from the President Of The United States saying "We'll Fight You From the Mountains To the Praries, From the Deserts To The Beaches and We Will Never Surrender", Instead you have CCN talking head types weeping and causing mass confusion. People can get Faith from above or inspriration to ACT from those in authority. Maybe a Churchill -like speech would have been counterproductive to the story.

One of the key points of the film was the girl on town who suddenly felt a need to confess. She apparently wasn't much of a church goer.. and yet Mel sort of hears her confession anyway. HIS crisis of faith (being the pastor) has created a crisis of faith within his small community. He self-isolates himself, not just from god, but even from the small town around him. Let's face it we only see a small part of the town, namely a ex-preacher's house, and an immagran'ts (Shamaylan's) House. Shamaylan is headed for the nearest body of water, though he's not sure why.. and manages to "Trap one in his pantry" hmmmm

What kinda Jedi mind tricks did you use? Care to share your techniques? Hey M. Night, as long as you are asking forgiveness for your sins.. you mind telling me who you CAUGHT one of these poison gas emitting grays?? You blow a cobra flute or something? Threaten it with a graden hose?? Brandish a pointed stick?? Come on!!!!

Problems with the film: We can apparently fly through space but are smarter than the aliens. Why? We'd pack a friggin raincoat! We could also probably navigate without leaving grafitti in the crops world wide. (even before GPS all we needed was a map and compass, right?) We also realize that busting into someone's house stark naked, armed or not, is liable to upset the average homeowner. So you think the aliens would at least wear pants, or breathing apparatus which brings me to the next point. A portion of the earth's atmosphere it waster vapor. If water is toxic.. well the aliens couldn't breath our air! A shotgun would NOT change this fact.

Good parts about the film: Kids in foil hats. Good acting.

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