[12GA]

Man Fatally Shoots Armed Intruder (htthttp://www.syracuse.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?n0545_BC_NY--IntruderShot&&news&nystatenewsp://)

Man fatally shoots armed intruder in mom's apartment

The Associated Press
2/19/03 6:20 PM

NEW YORK (AP) -- An airman at home in Queens fatally shot an armed man breaking into his mother's apartment, police said.

The mother had recently won a $100,000 lottery payout, police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Wednesday, but police said they did not know whether that motivated the break-in. A state Lottery Division spokeswoman did not return a phone call Wednesday.

Manuel Falquez, 22, an Air Force information manager stationed at McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey, was in his mother's third-floor apartment with his girlfriend Tuesday night when a man with a .38-caliber revolver appeared on the living-room balcony and began to jimmy the door with a knife, police said.

Falquez grabbed an unlicensed 9mm pistol and ordered the intruder to drop his weapon, police Deputy Inspector Kenneth Mekeel said. Falquez shot the man once in the head when the intruder held onto his gun, Mekeel said.

A spokesman for Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Falquez would be charged with criminal possession of a weapon.

A woman who answered the phone at the apartment said she did not speak English and hung up.

[Dave P]

"A spokesman for Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Falquez would be charged with criminal possession of a weapon. "

Doesn't the DA have something better to do with his time? What a cesspool - time to vote with your feet and get the heck outta Dodge!

[Boats]

2003 NYC standings--

Unregistered NYC 9mm handguns: 2 wins 0 losses

Bad Guys: 0 wins 2 losses

Maybe had they used shotguns the DA would have nothing to prosecute? What is the law concerning long guns there?

[Airwolf]

The Brooklyn DA that is prosecuting the other shooting involving an “unlicensed firearm” made it perfectly clear that “no one gets a pass” on firearms violations.

It seems the Queens DA is operating from the same playbook.

I think that they are slime for doing this. They don’t give a damn about JUSTICE only about enforcing laws, looking tough on “crime” and keep reinforcing the idea that you are not allowed to exercise any self-reliance or self-preservation if it violates any law at any time. Can’t let people do that as it usurps the role of and makes the nanny state look really bad.

Justice in this country is pretty much dead. All it’s about now is law enforcement and revenue generation. Supporting the business that has grown up around the insane (both in content and volume) of laws has taken complete precedence over right, wrong and morality.

I hope karma pays back these so-called “servants of the people” with a vengeance.

[12GA]

Maybe had they used shotguns the DA would have nothing to prosecute? What is the law concerning long guns there?

He'd be fine with a long gun as long as it was registered. :banghead: Yup, in NYC you must register your rifles and shotguns too. The permits are not nearly as difficult to obtain as those for handguns. However, you still have to get fingerprinted, supply passport type photos and pony up the cash every three years.:fire:

[Drizzt]

Airman kills burglar at mom's apt.

She kept lotto $ at home

By AUSTIN FENNER, RICHARD WEIR and GREG GITTRICH
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

An Air Force serviceman shot dead a gun-toting burglar who broke into his mother's Queens apartment - where neighbors believed bags of cash from a lottery jackpot were stashed.
Manuel Falquez, 22, fired one shot from an unlicensed gun into the head of the intruder Tuesday night after his girlfriend spotted the thug slipping through a balcony door just before 7 p.m., cops said yesterday.

The unidentified burglar - the latest in a string of hoodlums who have attempted to break into the apartment in the past few weeks - had a knife in one hand and a .38-caliber revolver in the other, cops said.

When the burglar refused to drop the weapons, Falquez squeezed off a shot, killing the intruder almost instantly, according to authorities.

Falquez and his 20-year-old girlfriend were not hurt.

Falquez was taken to the 110th Precinct stationhouse, where cops were pressing him yesterday to reveal how he got his illegal 9-mm. handgun, sources told the Daily News.

Neighbors said Falquez, a computer whiz at McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey, returned home recently because he feared for the safety of his mother, Grecia Gutierres.

Gutierres won $100,000 from the lottery within the past year - and didn't exactly keep her good fortune hush-hush.

"It was known in the neighborhood," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said of her windfall.

Word in the working-class Corona enclave was that Gutierres didn't trust banks and was hiding the winnings inside her home.

Since the week before Christmas, burglars have attempted to break into the third-floor apartment on Granger St. three times, neighbors said. Gutierres installed security cameras outside her door to deter would-be thieves.

Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said last night that Falquez was facing a misdemeanor gun possession charge, which carries up to a year in jail. But a law enforcement source said it was unlikely Brown would push to put Falquez behind bars.

Say intruder had a record

Sources said the man Falquez shot had two prior arrests - one for burglary, the other for drugs. Each time, he was carrying a gun, sources said.

If Brown decides not to pursue a jail sentence, his decision would stand in stark contrast to a similar case in Brooklyn. Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes is insisting that a Canarsie homeowner who used an illegal handgun to fend off an intruder in December spend a few weekends in prison.

Gutierres' neighbors said her son should not be locked up.

"Just cause you shoot someone doesn't make you a criminal," said Lenny Borbon, 25. "If someone came into my house to go after my mother, I would have put a bullet in him - a few times."


With Ruth Bashinsky

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/61089p-57095c.html

[Baba Louie]

What was it they said during the Nuremburg trials? "I vas only following orders"

The Law is the LAW. I suppose the DA could be prosecuted if he violated the LAW and didn't bring the charges up against that eeeevil ner-do-well armed forces trained, son for using an "Unlicensed" firearm against an armed (twice armed) criminal.

Lets all begin to deal with the fact that we're soon to ALL be lumped into that category of Lawless gun-owning, carrying near schools, carrying concealed without paper, etc and get Pro-Active (if thats possible) with Congress, with City/County council and State Assembly types.

That NYC law really isn't such a bad law if they'd actually allow a license now and then. I guess only the rich and famous need apply, eh?

Adios

[Blackhawk]

"Just cause you shoot someone doesn't make you a criminal," said Lenny Borbon, 25. "If someone came into my house to go after my mother, I would have put a bullet in him - a few times."That's right, Lenny, except in NYC and other commie enclaves in the U.S.

Vote them OUT, while you still have a chance, IF you still have a chance.... :what:

[sonny]

Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time:banghead:

[sar]

Being a pro-gun NYCer with close ties to the Queens DA office I can say that the ADA's are sick about having to prosecute the Queens case. They are actually upset at PD for arresting the guy. If PD have given him a pass then they would not be obligated to pursue the case. They are hoping that the manner in which they present to the Grand Jury gets it dismissed.

I have to also say that getting a NYC premise permit is not hard at all - it just takes time. About 8 to 12 months. Long barrel guns take only 60 to 90 days. I wish these guys had followed the process for the place they decided to live instead of owning non-registered guns. Then they would poster boys for legal ownership instead of anti-gun fodder. The handgun laws here are tough but they exist and will so you have to accpet them if you want to own a gun - or you can move.

[Drizzt]

Intruder Shooting Fourth In 2003

By Sean Gardiner
Staff Writer

February 19, 2003, 10:12 PM EST


The concept of “a man’s home is his castle” dates back to English common law. But modern law dictates you can’t protect that castle with an illegal gun.

In the past two months, four intruders have been shot in the city during burglaries and armed robberies. Three of those would-be thieves were killed.

In all but one of those cases, the men protecting their homes or business used unlicensed guns, potentially landing themselves in legal hot water.

On Tuesday night a Queens man on leave from the Air Force shot and killed a burglar who tried to break into the Corona home of his mother, who had recently won $100,000 in the Win 4 Lottery game, police said. The man, Manuel Falquez, 22, illegally bought a 9-mm handgun last week to protect his mother, police said.

Under state law, Falquez had every right to use “deadly force” against the armed burglar, who has not been identified. But under the state’s weapons law, he committed a crime.

Such crimes put district attorneys in tough situations. Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said emotions have to be put aside and “cases involving the illegal possession of handguns are carefully evaluated on a case by case basis.”

It’s also why “it’s highly unlikely Falquez will do any jail time for this,” a law enforcement source added. Falquez’s case is the latest in a spate of such cases.

At 9:50 a.m. on Feb. 10, record store owner Amalio Santos shot and killed Carlos Ugalde, 27, after Ugalde and another man broke into Santos’ Briarwood home, police said. Santos, a retired air marshal, told authorities that Ugalde’s partner had a gun. No charges were filed in that case because Santos’ gun was licensed. Police are seeking the other suspect.

About 11 hours later, Julio Villegas, 41, an ex-convict with a long criminal record, was fatally shot while trying to rob Rassalyn Wholesale, a cigarette, candy and beer distributor, in the South Bronx, police said.

Steven Reed, a spokesman for the Bronx district attorney’s office, said the owner of the business has been charged with misdemeanor gun possession because the .38-caliber gun used in the shooting was not licensed. The case is pending.

And on Dec. 14, Ronald Dixon, 27, wounded Ivan Thompson, 40, a longtime criminal, after Thompson broke into Dixon’s home and was heading toward the room of Dixon’s 2-year-old son, police said. The Navy veteran also used an unlicensed handgun. He was charged with illegal possession of a firearm.

Prosecutors offered Dixon a plea deal, which he rejected.

In a statement released through his spokesman Wednesday, Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes said: “We’re not disputing that Mr. Dixon had a right to shoot the person who broke into his house. But he had no right to have that gun.”

The case is pending.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/crime/nyc-gun0220,0,6056801.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-left

[Standing Wolf]

The man who saved his mother's life deserves a civic commendation. The D.A. deserves to be fired.

[DeltaElite]

Fascist laws, enforced by little power hungry twerps.
I am so blessed to be living where I am.

[Robby from Long Island]

Sar,

I couldn't help but notice that you said it's not difficult to get a premise permit for a handgun in New York City. The only problem possibly being the waiting period of 8 to 12 months.

Apparently, I must be under a misconception as I thought there were only a couple of instances whereby a private citizen could get one.

As my curiosity is getting the better of me, could you kindly tell me what the requirements are for a New York City resident to actually get a handgun permit? I was always under the impression that only shotguns and rifles were permitted after fingerprinting, background investigation completed and required fee paid.

Way out here in the boonies of Suffolk County it took 7 months for approval of my pistol license. If it only takes 8-12 months in NYC for the same, feel it's a bargain.

[QKRTHNU]

Tell me why again did Terrorists target NY? I thought they hated the United States?

[jmbg29]

Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?

If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long timeDude! They have you so frazzled that you are answering your own questions.The handgun laws here are tough but they exist and will so you have to accpet them if you want to own a gun - or you can move.He lives in Jersey. :rolleyes: If he hadn't been there, his mom would be taking a dirt-nap. If my mom lived in that hole, I would take my chances of being put in jail by New York scum, before I would let New York scum kill my mom.

:cuss: New York!

Oh, and be sure to tell ******* I said hugs & kisses.

BTW :cuss: NEW YORK!!!!!!!:fire: :fire: Tell me why again did Terrorists target NY? I thought they hated the United States? How can I add to that?


Good God!:barf: :banghead:

Read the words of another sage of the "City That Never Sleeps" below. It took the reduction of 3,000 lives into a useless ash heap to give him the only lucid moments he may ever have in his pathetic life. Lucky for us, he wrote the product of those moments down.

[Jim March]

The time factor was the main issue here.

Mom was under threat NOW. Multiple attempts over the past few weeks, son came in on an emergency basis. With his gun.

OK, there's a point here where this crap can't be tolerated. This is way past it.

[sar]

Robby:

Where in LI are you, I also have a place out east and shoot in Westhampton at the Pine Barrons sometimes. The requirements for NYC premise permit are fairly simple.

http://nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html

Requirements:
Be 21 years old
No felony convictions
No mental health problems
Proof of residence
$255 fee to the NYPD
$74 fee to NY Criminal History Board
Face to face interview.

File the Application then wait. There are no safety courses requirements or qualification requirements. It may be long process but I have been shooting here in NYC for 14 years and have never heard of anyone with a clean record getting denied.

As for the DA's prosecuting - they have to or all other cases where there was a non-licensed/non-registered gun involved will be in trouble. As I said, they are sick about and will most likely punt it to the Grand Jury (in a way they lead to GJ to a recommendation for no charges) and that way they avoid any precedent issues or anti-gun crap. I know the ADA's in the Queens office and believe me they are not happy about it either.

Also, if only these guys had followed the regulations we would GREAT pr right now for gun ownership. As it is, the liberal bent on this is that even when the shooting is justified the gunowner can't be trusted.

[2nd Amendment]

The DA's really are stuck. If they do not prosecute these guys then it cuts their legs out from under them when they try to prosecute the real bad guys. I'd agree that the burden really falls on the cops. I know there are those here who will say a cop can not look the other way but the reality is cops always have and still do all the time all across the country on a variety of things. It's what's called a judgement call. Sadly NYC cops often seem to have lousy judgement.

[DeltaElite]

The fault lies in the fascist law.
The cops are ignoring the 2A as is the DA. For the sake of their jobs.
No one should be prosecuted under that draconian law, no matter what their actions with the gun.
Prosecute them for an actual crime, not for having a gun.

Can you tell I live in an open carry, shall issue state and that I believe in the 2A? ;)

[jmbg29]

Requirements:...Proof of residence...File the Application then wait. There are no safety courses requirements or qualification requirements. It may be long process but I have been shooting here in NYC for 14 years and have never heard of anyone with a clean record getting denied.
HE LIVES IN NEW :cuss:ing JERSEY!!!!!Also, if only these guys had followed the regulations we would GREAT pr right now for gun ownership.They and their familys would have been dead 6 months before their paperwork was sent to the executor of their estates! As it is, the liberal bent on this is that even when the shooting is justified the gunowner can't be trusted.As opposed to what? Your conservative bent?:barf: The gunowner can't be trusted because he chose life over a frigging piece of bureaucratic toilet paper? Are you ever going to understand that the liberals don't care how many innocent people die?!

They only wish to ensure that no evil people are killed. That's it! Nothing more!!!!!!!!!!

So, instead of pointing out how unbelievably stupid, self-destructive and flat out evil the liberal position is, the sheeple left and right flock together?

On the left "Guuuns aaare baaaaad! On the right (that's a laugh) Uuuunregisteredddd guuuns aaare baaaaad!

I can't tell the bleets apart.

That kid's mother is alive for only one reason. Because that kid had the guts to do what 99.99999999999999999999% of :barf: New Yorkers won't do. DEFEND HUMAN LIFE IN A MEANINGFUL WAY! Not with words or hand wringing. ACTION!

I think that the terrorists must have gotten nearly all of the good guys in one fell swoop. This is pathetic. You people make me sick.:fire: :fire: :fire:

Thank you God, for putting an entire continent between me and New York! And I hope that the DA and the ADAs enjoy burning in hell.

[jimpeel]

For the edification of those who tout the ease with which a NYC firearms permit can be had, Ronald Dixon was waiting for the permit process to drag out when he shot the intruder in his home. He tried to be legal but the bad guy came too soon; and the authorities came too late.

[sar]

Guys, I am by no means touting the ease at which a permit can be obtain. I also believe that these guys were right in their actions. I do not believe in the law but it is the law here and if you think a few right wingers like me can change it you are living in a fantasy land.I can't even take my gun (legally) into NJ to do IDPA.

To equate me with a sheeple liberal is quite insulting - I grew up were the first day of deer hunting was more important then Christmas and have served this country. Additionally, having worked and lost friends at WTC I find you invoking that act as an insult very revolting.

I fully agree that I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by six and I think you do as well. Now we will see if we all have the balls to live up to that.

[mjustice]

I have to also say that getting a NYC premise permit is not hard at all - it just takes time. About 8 to 12 months. Long barrel guns take only 60 to 90 days. I wish these guys had followed the process for the place they decided to live instead of owning non-registered guns. Then they would poster boys for legal ownership instead of anti-gun fodder. The handgun laws here are tough but they exist and will so you have to accpet them if you want to own a gun - or you can move.

8-12 months is against the law (law says you must receive an approval or detailed reason for denial within six months of application)

More importantly, New Yorkers pay $255 for three years where almost all of New York State pays $10 for life*. This is probably one of the biggest reasons why there are 1-2 million illegal guns in New York City, many of them handguns.

The hours to register a handgun are ridiculous (9-12 or 1, Monday through Thursday, only at 1 Police Plaza), and they make you wait up to 90 days before they issue a purchase authorization.

NYC has everything at their disposal to remove the illegal gun problem (like lowering the fee and increasing the hours and location(s) of service) and they do nothing. All it would take would be an act from the city council. Yet they do nothing. Just like they have been doing for the past 92 years. They *want* you to be a criminal if you want to own guns.

The laws are tough - but the enforcement is what kills them. If you know ADAs, then I am sure they can tell you about the guns that cops pull off of people these days, and how much gun runners are getting for them. 200-500 for a Lorcin or Raven, and a "clean" Glock can run over $1000. It should come as no surprise as to why they cannot stop gun trafficing - it's almost as lucrative as a government racket!

Charlie Hynes and the and the rest of the anti's can talk all of the liberal claptrap they can muster - the problem is the law, and it can be changed. All we need are gun owners to get up off their duff and get involved.

One of the groups that I am involved with (SCOPE's NYC Committee) had a meeting last night in Manhattan, and we "picked up" a new member. He said he wasn't involved with politics or government at all until September 11. Now he can't right enough letters. I still think there is hope for us. :)

MJ

* - Nassau charges $200 for five years, Suffolk and Westchester charge $10 for five years

[Skunkabilly]

What a pile of horsepuckey.

No chance this was an Air Force gun, right?

[jmbg29]

Guys, I am by no means touting the ease at which a permit can be obtain. The requirements for NYC premise permit are fairly simple. You do understand the english language don't you?To equate me with a sheeple liberal is quite insulting - I grew up were the first day of deer hunting was more important then Christmas and have served this country. Additionally, having worked and lost friends at WTC I find you invoking that act as an insult very revolting. Ask me if I care.Now we will see if we all have the balls to live up to that. :rolleyes:

[sonny]

jmbg29,
I don't understand you're aggresive stance on this issue.
What is clear to me is that you really hate NYC.....you voiced your opinions of NYC in another thread and they are not exactly kind.

I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.

Whats your beef with sars comments?.....he sounds like a guy you would want on your team.....doesn't he?

ASK ME IF I CARE?......do you have any idea what we went through on 9/11 in NYC?.......nobody wants your pitty or sympathy......but we're on your side...aren't we?...howbout a little respect?...to much to ask for?.......I speak for myself when I say that my contributions to this city,my countryand the PRO GUN MOVEMENT command respect ....and if you walked a mile in my shoes I believe you would agree.

Listen ....life is tough to begin with ....work....kids...the bad economy and other stuff.....I think the New Yorkers who contribute to pro gun related activities are doing the best we can in a tough situation....for crying out loud...WE ARE OUTNUMBERED.
But you must realize that their are plenty of us that don't fit into the STEREOTYPE.

I tried my best to be reasonable with you......If you understand me ...fine....if not so be it.

[Robby from Long Island]

jmbg29,

I'm not sure what your problem is, but as someone else pointed out you obviously hate New York and its residents.

I really don't want to get in p....... contest with you over some of your comments since that type of stuff turned me off another forum and I don't want that to happen here.

Apparently you live in a state with CCW where you can go around packing and feel pretty confident that if things go south real fast you can legally grab your handgun to equalize things.

In a non-CCW state like NY and many others, we're forced to handle testy situations barehanded against BG's who are always carrying boxcutters, folders, bayonets, martial arts toys and obviously, guns.

Contrary to what you might think, all New Yorkers are not sheeple, whether left or right.

I worked in NYC, Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx for over 35 years and while it often appears we're outnumbered by the BG's, there are still millions of very decent human beings just trying to survive each day to bring a paycheck home to their family. And these people consist of every race on earth packed into a very small area. It'a a miracle there isn't total mayhem, but the majority try to make it work.

I envy you and anyone else that live in a place where they can look in the eye of someone approaching them on the same side of the street without it appearing to be a challenge.

BTW, I was working on the 16th floor of tower one of the WTC when it got hit along with thousands of others, and just for the record, the many thousands of survivors were also very decent human beings who probaby wouldn't have appreciated some of your comments.

It's a shame you harbor such bitterness towards so many people you never met and have done you no harm.

[jmbg29]

Whats your beef with sars comments?ThisAlso, if only these guys had followed the regulations we would GREAT pr right now for gun ownership. As it is, the liberal bent on this is that even when the shooting is justified the gunowner can't be trusted.Was followed by thisThe requirements for NYC premise permit are fairly simple.Followed by this.Guys, I am by no means touting the ease at which a permit can be obtain.That says it all.

Not to mention ignoring completely that the "guys" that have caused poor "pr" would both be dead long before they ever got their "simple" permits.I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it The kid lived in JERSEY! Do I need to say it again? Do I need to repeat that even if he could get a permit, that he would have been dead about 7 months 4 weeks and a day or two under what you consider "available"?

One more time. If you think you are going to ever win any friends in any meaningful numbers from the left-wing, you are just flat wrong. If they can't instantaneously figure out that an Air Force hero and his mom alive, and a piece of scum dead on the floor is the ultimate win/win situation, then they are beyond REDEMPTION!!!!!!! Not a shred of humanity remains in them. Not one!

Wanting them as allies would therefore eclipse repugnant.It's a shame you harbor such bitterness towards so many people you never met and have done you no harm.They do me harm every single day by tearing this country down and leading it into mindless anarchy. They no longer understand that the fundamental right to protect and preserve one's own life supercedes all else. Without the self, there is only the hive. No hive has ever, or will ever, produce a human being.

Even the abject horror of 9/11 has NO impact on their thinking or belief systems. Do me no harm? Hah!:fire: :fire: :fire:

[sonny]

jmbg29,

I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.

What exactly is your point?......You keep stating that the man lived in NEW JERSEY......I know that, I read the story....Is your complaint that he is being treated unfairly?....Or do you just hate NYC?........Could this scenerio have taken place in a great number of other juristictions in the United States?...of course it could...all
states do not have reciprical laws.
NYC firearms laws SUCK ...we know....Did I mention that NYC firearm laws SUCK?.....While we are on the subject I think it is only right that I mention that NYC firearms laws SUCK.

[jmbg29]

I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.This is insane. You asked me "Whats your beef with sars comments?" I answered, and you come back with that? ......You keep stating that the man lived in NEW JERSEY......I know that, I read the story....Is your complaint that he is being treated unfairly? The point is that he couldn't show proof that he lived in N.Y.C. because he lives in N.J., therefore he couldn't have gotten a permit even if he wanted one! So all of the handwringing over him not having one is pointless! The kid did exactly the right thing, and N.Y.C. is going to destroy him for it.Could this scenerio have taken place in a great number of other juristictions in the United States? Of course it could. He would be just as screwed in almost 10 of them. So what? How does that change the fact that N.Y.C. wants this kid's blood?

Not to mention that most other jurisdictions wouldn't have completely missed the whole damn point! The kid stopped the robber! He is alive, and his mom is alive! THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME! No piece of paper ever made, no piece of paper filed with a .gov flunky could have made it any better!

If the kid had stopped the robber by killing him with a baseball bat, the scumbag would be just as dead. No one, not even people in N.Y.C. would be wondering how that was going to make other baseball bat owners look. Nobody would ask if the bat was "legal". New Yorkers with their deeply warped sense of rooting for the underdog would have simply recognized the kid for the hero he is. As it stands, he was on equal footing (in terms of weapons) with the piece of filth and he shot him dead. For that he not only gets no sympathy, but now he has to face getting raped in prison for a year, all for doing the right thing.

Because he used a dreaded "illegal gun" the kid gets left to twist in the wind while you guys say again and again and again that it would have been simple to get a handgun permit in N.Y.C.

You know, things like thisWhy does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?

[Robby from Long Island]

Sar,

I live in North Babylon out in Suffolk County. When I do get a chance to go shooting, it's out in Calverton. That's about an hours drive from my place.

Quite a few guys shoot at Brookhaven but I've never been there or Westhampton. Gotta try them sometime.

The reason I always went to Calverton is that it's open 12 months of the year and privately owned. They have pistol, black powder, shotgun and rifle ranges of 100, 200 and 300 yards.

$75 gets you unlimited shooting for the year.

Hopefully the rain we're getting this weekend washes away some of the 22 inches of snow we got last week. Would like to get out and break in a new Winchester 1300 Defender I bought a couple of weeks ago.

If you get a chance, send me some details of the Westhampton range facilities.

Safe shooting.

[sonny]

my entire quote if jmbg29 doesn't mind.

jmbg29,

I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.

[gryphon]

Couldn't the law of competing harms ome into play here? He broke one law(using an unlicensed firearm) to prevent a potential murder/rape/aggravated robbery?

On that alone, they should be able to keep this guy form going to the clinker, yes?

[jmbg29]

Back-pedal all you want. You want full quotes? Here is the original quote that I originally commented on in full:Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC? If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.

The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time:banghead:Now my problem might be that (being a free human being) I just don't understand New Yorkese enough to make sense of that quote.

Initially you asked the question "Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?"

Then you added (with no prompting from me) "If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit."

And then contradicted your own first and second sentences with "Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun."

With the icing on the cake being "The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time:banghead:"

Now it could be that - when speaking New Yorkese - the definition of "hard to get a handgun permit in NYC" is that it would take much, much, much, much, much, longer and/or it takes a really, really, really, really, really, really, LOOOOOONNNGGGG time! .

That would go a very long way to explain why sar would follow thisAlso, if only these guys had followed the regulations we would GREAT pr right now for gun ownership. As it is, the liberal bent on this is that even when the shooting is justified the gunowner can't be trusted.with thisThe requirements for NYC premise permit are fairly simple.And then say thisGuys, I am by no means touting the ease at which a permit can be obtain.If that is the case, I apologize. I'm only familiar with a couple of foreign languages, and none of them employ backward logic. My bad. :barf:

[jmbg29]

On that alone, they should be able to keep this guy form going to the clinker, yes?Most anywhere else, yes.

[sonny]

jmbg29,
Hows your head feel after banging it against the wall so many times?
Keep taking things out of context and mixing things up.
It's getting boring.

[jmbg29]

It's all here in black and white.

[sonny]

YOU FORGOT SOMETHING........:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

[jmbg29]

:barf: ;)

[Quartus]

The mother had recently won a $100,000 lottery payout, police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Wednesday, but police said they did not know whether that motivated the break-in.


:rolleyes:




Skunk, if that was an Air Force gun it won't get him a pass on the illegal weapons charge - it will just get him in (more) trouble with the Air Force. :(

[Gewehr98]

No chance this was an Air Force gun, right?

If it were, he'd be in SERIOUS trouble with the Air Force for unlawful use and possession of government weaponry outside of official duty. Contrary to popular belief, GI's just don't get to bring home their issue guns when on leave. :rolleyes:

[Don Gwinn]

Sonny, I don't mean to pile on, but I don't understand what you're trying to say. You say it's not hard to get a permit, but then you cite all the ways in which it IS hard to get a permit. You say the kid should have gotten a permit to avoid all this trouble, but you dismiss the very pertinent fact that he could never have gotten a permit as "taking things out of context."

Seriously, sir, you must endeavor to speak the King's English from now on.

[sonny]

Don Gwinn,

When did I dismiss the fact that he could not get a permit in NYC?

Was it when I mentioned.

Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time

That was my entire quote.

I also clarified it by adding.

I simply pointed out in this thread that a permit for a handgun is availlable if you want it............I understand that we are not as fortunate as folks in other states in regards to the ease of obtaining firearms.The bottom line is that pro gunners are outnumbered in NYC by the antis.......We know that.

And then I added this.

I did not say at any time that this guy could get a permit in NYC.
My comment was made so that anyone that DOES live in NYC would read it and understand that they do not need to be intimidated by the process of obtaining a hand gun permit in the city...............If you disagree show me where I stated otherwise.

Please point me to where I said anything about the how the air force guy should have gotten a permit.......I have not deleted or edited any of my posts.

The comment on ...It's not that hard to get a permit in NYC seems to be a big topic on this thread.........What did I mean by that?

Truth is .....I have lived here in NYC my entire life and I can't believe how many New Yorkers are under the impression that a handgun permit is out of the question......Well ..it's not .
I guess you all consider waiting to be .....HARD.
It is not hard to me .....just extremely inconvenient and insulting to me as an American citizen.I believe the impression that many in NYC get is that you need to have a special reason to own a handgun in the city and the fact is that you don't.
Can you see why I made the comment now?....Please stop and reconsider what I wrote and If you have time please re-read the entire thread .I have no reason to lie to you guys on this subject and I ask you to accept my word as to my intentions when I made my comments.

[Baba Louie]

The young man is a hero.

I couldn't find a reference in the article as to where the gun came from... was it his and just visiting with him, or was it mom's unregistered personal weapon?

I'd be willing to bet that it was his, that he'd never get a permit for it since he did not reside there and that, by the letter of the law, he's totally screwed...UNLESS a high ranking cop or two, an ADA or two, his commanding officer, master chief sargeant, ALL show up to plead his case in front of the Mayor and city council, the grand jury, Bill O'Reilly, Phil Donahue, whatever... and make some serious noise.

But it won't happen. The law, as its written, does what it was intended to do... slow or stop law abiding citizens from possessing a firearm and exercising what we like to call "their 2nd Amendment Rights". Not a violation of his Civil Rights, thats for sure. He doesn't even live there. He's just an American Citizen, serving his country. And his family.

In this case, and several others, the consequences are horrific.

So how will the law-abiding citizens of NYC, who may eventually be faced with real live Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists, wielding bombs or REAL Assault Weapons, fare? If they have a legally registered weapon... if they have NO weapon... If they are a criminal (or just say I happen to be visiting there and I never go anywhere without some form of Personal Defensive Device) and have an unregistered weapon and bring it to bear to solve the REAL CRIME?

Will the ADA end up charging any who are left standing holding an illegal smoking gun with a crime? Probably.

Just doing his job. Its the Law. Tell it to the judge.

How are the judges in NYC these days? Jury Nullification, you say?

And what about this kids Air Force career? Think this action will have a negative impact on it?

I'm sure his mom was glad he was there.

NYC gun laws DO Suck. Most DO.

Adios

[chaim]

Gee too bad this didn't happen in MD. Then he'd be facing no illegal weapons charges. So long as he bought his gun legally in NJ he would probably be ok on that end. He'd only be charged with murder for shooting someone to death:fire:

[Double Naught Spy]

So why is it that these folks in New York seem so clueless about getting permits for their guns? It is the law. It has been the law for quite some time. These sorts of things seem to happen with a fair amount of frequency and yet the folks continue to own guns that are not licensed. That just amazes me.

So the guy did not live there and could not get a permit there. That does not mean that he gets to be above the law and have a gun there. Hard or easy to get the permit, or impossible, matters not. He broke the law.

Personally, I think the guy did exactly right for the shooting. The threat was identifed, compliance demanded, and when there was no compliance he used compliance by force with a head shot. So the shooting was perfectly valid. The only problem is that the shooting resulted in making it known that the guy had an unpermitted gun in NYC. So now he will have to deal with those problems.

It is a shame that such laws exist and I am sure that many of us might operate in the same manner if we visited someone in NYC. Why? Because we would rather suffer a gun violation than be dead.

Personally, I think it is in my best interest to not go to NYC.

[Gewehr98]

And what about this kids Air Force career? Think this action will have a negative impact on it?

The Air Force wouldn't take punitive action against him, but if he held or was lined up to hold a security clearance, that conviction would be the end of the line.

[Robby from Long Island]

Sonny,

Actually, you did a very good job of clarifying the situation. It's really not hard to follow you in what you said unless someone just wants NOT to understand.

I have to admit I was one of those people who also thought it almost impossible to get a handgun permit if a NYC resident but now I know better. It's not exactly like NYC advertises in the New York Times how residents can easily apply for the handgun permit.

The biggest obstacle to acquiring one is the waiting period. Most people who want to acquire anything in life want it within a reasonable timeframe. People who want a gun for protection when hearing that it might take a year for permit approval while a shotgun permit might only be a couple of months will opt for the shotgun and say to themselves, I'll get my handgun permit at a later date.

I did the same thing for 20 odd years myself. Living in Suffolk County (not NYC for you out of towners), I knew it would take me about 6 or 7 months before I was going to be approved or denied my permit. Whenever I thought about doing it, I gave up on the idea simply because I knew what I had to go through to get it. Go to my nearest precinct and get an application. Then go out to Yaphank Police Headquarters (an hours drive), fill out the application, get fingerprinted, go through a long interview, be told to come back with my discharge papers showing I was honorably discharged from the military (if you have anything but "Honorable" on it you are disqualified) bring a list of names of neighbors who will be interviewed by the police as to your character, etc. Then get several postal money orders to pay the several fees for the application. You are then advised you will hear from them upon completion of their background investigation of you. That includes Suffolk County PD, New York State PD, Federal and military background checks. The last thing they did was when a female detective called my wife and asked her a bunch of questions such as: did you know your husband applied for a pistol license, has he ever threatened you or anyone else, has he ever struck you ? etc. As apparently she gave all the right answers, they then mailed me my pistol license. Exactly 7 months to the day later from date of application.

I'm not going to bore anybody any further with details, but it's just as hard to keep it as get it.

You're at a restaurant with your wife and some drunk comes over and starts making passes at your wife, you shove him, a fight ensues and both parties are arrested. Police say "we'll sort it out later". It's later determined you were only protecting your wife, but the fact is you were ARRESTED, not convicted. It doesn't matter, you just lost your pistol license which will never be granted again because on your original application your advised if ever arrested you will not be granted a license. End of discussion.

I remember many years ago when I was in a drug store in Ohio, a local resident was in there and bought a .357 simply by showing his drivers license. Well, it ain't that easy here.

I'm not really able to discern why it's so hard for people to understand what Sonny has been saying unless they don't want to understand. Yeah, the system stinks and no one knows it better than those living here. Just be thankful you don't, but don't be so critical of those who do. Most of us live in NYS and NYC because we were born here, went to school here, have our families here and our jobs. I live here because I work in a field of international trade and ocean transportation. Not many openings for me in Colorado or Kansas, etc. Not many of us are about to simply pack up and move to a state just so we can have CCW. For some reason, having a job is also important.

This is turning into a rant, so let me just end it with give Sonny a break. He's just trying to explain something that's not so easy for most people to understand or accept.

BTW, Within the year I plan on retiring and moving to a real American state like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Forida or North Carolina that does have CCW.

Safe shooting.

[Don Gwinn]

Robby, I am not the one who criticized residents of New York. You, SAR, and Sonny have all said in this thread that these men are fools for not simply getting the permit. Then you have each told the rest of us that it is not that hard to get that permit.

Then you have each proceeded to hold forth at length as to all sorts of ways in which it is "that hard" to get a permit.

You have each contradicted yourselves in your own posts. You continue to contradict yourselves in your own posts. I'm not mad at you, or nuthin', but no, that's not easy to understand. It cannot be both difficult and easy to get the permit. Either it's hard to do or it isn't. Therefore you can't tell us it's both ways and expect anyone to understand it.

I thank you for explaining the specifics of how the permit is obtained, but I'm baffled as to why you continue to insist that they're "not that hard."

[jmbg29]

It must be a language/culture/country barrier.

[Robby from Long Island]

Don Gwinn,

I know by now people are probably saying "enough already" and I don't blame them. Actually I found myself laughing about how bizarre the whole thread has become.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that nowhere did I ever call anyone a fool for not getting a permit nor have I ever said how hard it was to get a permit in NYC. What I did say was I originally THOUGHT it was almost impossible to acquire one, and I asked Sar to explain how it worked which he did.

I think it's pretty simple. Fill out the paperwork, pay the fee and wait for up to a year to see if you're approved. I learned something myself with their explanation.

Just about everybody who has read the story in New York is behind the airman, not just the people from other states. I know this as I read the local papers everyday.

I understand a lot of people don't like New Yorkers and their feelings a often justified. But not everybody from New York is arrogant and brash.

A lot of us are exceptionally conservative, pro-gun and Lifetime N.R.A. members.

I think it should also be remembered, we're all on the same page when it comes to the second amendment and the right to bear arms. And when I say "all", I'm talking about the members of THR and all the other pro-gun forums we participate in. I just feel we should stop nit-picking someone else's post because it might not be worded the way we would do it.

Don, none of the above is meant as criticism, just an explanation.

Safe shooting.

[Intune]

Yoos guys! What accent? Ya’ll come visit now, ya hear?! Firearms restrictions suck and they only affect the honest citizen. How draconian those restrictions are is just a matter of degrees state by state. The hoops keep getting higher and smaller. A criminal can and will carry anywhere, taking great care to avoid the airport and courthouse w/ their detectors. Open season on us most everywhere else. I, on the other hand, as a law-abiding citizen, am put in a potentially life-threatening position by obeying the law (disarming) and going to a nightclub as part of my job to hear a band. Totally defenseless at 2:00 am in a less than savory part of town. What are my chances of suing the city or state if something catastrophic were to occur after they effectively disarmed me? Pretty low I’d say. And would that make anything better?

We should be able to carry EVERYWHERE at ANYTIME with no permit required as citizens of the United States of America. We shouldn’t have to prove that we are fine upstanding members of our community with no criminal record for them to give us permission to utilize a RIGHT! THEY should have to prove, upon discovery that I am carrying a firearm, that I am somehow not FIT to be doing so. It is a truly sickening state of affairs when one cannot defend life without retribution from those who serve US!
:cuss:

[sonny]

Don Gwinn,

Here we go again..........Show me where ....I....Sonny....ME......
Said anything about how how "these men are fools for not simply getting there permits"

You just accused me of saying that in your last post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robby, I am not the one who criticized residents of New York. You, SAR, and Sonny have all said in this thread that these men are fools for not simply getting the permit. Then you have each told the rest of us that it is not that hard to get that permit.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the thread ....AGAIN......I will explain....AGAIN...why my initial comment was made......Before I said anything.......

Boats said.....Maybe had they used shotguns the DA would have nothing to prosecute? What is the law concerning long guns there?

After him.....12GA said......He'd be fine with a long gun as long as it was registered. Yup, in NYC you must register your rifles and shotguns too. The permits are not nearly as difficult to obtain as those for handguns. However, you still have to get fingerprinted, supply passport type photos and pony up the cash every three years.

After him.....Baba Louie said.....
That NYC law really isn't such a bad law if they'd actually allow a license now and then. I guess only the rich and famous need apply, eh?

Then Blackhawk said.....That's right, Lenny, except in NYC and other commie enclaves in the U.S.

Vote them OUT, while you still have a chance, IF you still have a chance....

Well... that's where I said......Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time.

Let me simplify this ....if you are 21 and not a felon...go to 1 police plaza with the required documents apply and wait .....after the humiliating and unfair waiting period ......YOU WILL GET YOUR PERMIT!
The ...HARD...part is over .....OVER....OVER. You may now enjoy the rest of your life as a handgun owner.
Compared to GUN FRIENDLY STATES the waiting period SUCKS,
SUCKS,SUCKS...My god! ...we know.

Not that hard is a relative statement......when some of you guys get in your trucks and drive 30 minutes for a gallon of milk do you consider it hard?.....I just walk out my door and across the street.......I'm not trying to be a wise guy but please try not to take things out of context ...especially when I am trying to be informative to potential gun owners.

Don...........SHOW ME WHERE I MADE THE COMMENTS THAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF MAKING....and we can put this one to sleep.

[sonny]

ROBBY,
I think it is upon people like you and me to let others in NY know that you DON'T have to be SPECIAL to get a handgun in NY.

I am serious about this....somehow it became urban legend that handgun ownership in NY was impossible.....growing up friends always thought I was "CONNECTED" or something because I went shooting .....I tried to explain....many listened and became gun owners themselves ....others just said....Yea..O.K.
:confused:

I have converted a great many antis over the years.....it's our only hope......spread the word:)

[hammer4nc]

robby & sonny,

Just so everyone's on the same page, you're talking about a permit just to own, in your own private residence, a firearm, right? Any patient person with a clean record can do it for ~$100 per year? And that is $100 per firearm (not per person?). So if a guy wants to have a modest 20 pistol collection, how much $$$ per year? Would it even be possible?

How about the requirements for concealed carry in NYC? More patience and more $$$ required, or something else? Not to be obtuse, but I think some of the vitriol is directed at the presumed impossibility of being able to obtain CCW license in NYC (unless you're "connected"). Although you are more than welcome to give us your first hand experience on this, too. Thanks in advance.

[riverdog]

As bad as CA gun laws are, I don't need a permit to buy a handgun, shotgun or rifle. In WA it took 30 days to get my concealed handgun permit; the paperwork was simple and short. Further, the fee was much less than NYC’s gun permit and it allows me to carry concealed, whereas NYC’s permit is just to accomplish the relatively simple process of obtaining.

I find Sonny's arguments regarding NYC gun permits to be a good example of why the process is onerous. Sonny’s thinking that the NYC system isn’t that difficult and his arguments in that regard only show how far NYC thinking has slipped from the mainstream. Sonny, you really gotta get rid of the Sullivan Law. Your arguments make it seem that you think it’s normal -- it’s not.

[sonny]

hammer4nc,
Where in god's name did you dig this up. Any patient person with a clean record can do it for ~$100 per year? And that is $100 per firearm (not per person?).

You have got to be kidding:confused:

You are not contributing to gun ownership with this misinformation ..........give me your source for that LIE please

[citizen]

FUHGEDABOUTIT!!!!!!

I left NYC over 25 yrs ago, and STILL rejoice that I'm out!

NOBODY gets NOTHIN' there without a lot of difficulty.
Dad SOLD his rifle collection, AFTER he transported them out, rather than register them.
TRY being an AMERICAN there, and you will certainly feel like a
foreign minority; as far as city laws are concerned.

IT'S A NO-WIN SITUATION!!!!!:barf: :barf:

[sonny]

On the concealed carry part of your comment......you are absolutly correct ..........only SPECIAL people can get them.
We are doing our best to work on that although I don't see progress.

[sonny]

My god I guess I'm going to have to take on all of THR by myself ....O.K.
Riverdog.......did you read all my comments?My arguments make it seem as if it's normal?...Normal...NOrmal...NORmal...NORMal...NORMAl..NORMAL!?

IT'S NOT NORMAL....IT'S CRIMINAL....I have stated that over and over....All I am suggesting is that New Yorkers should not be intimidated by the abnormal way in which the city scares off potential handguners.

[hammer4nc]

sonny said:Where in god's name did you dig this up.

I was averaging. To summarize what I read in this thread...
sar posted:$255 fee to the NYPD
$74 fee to NY Criminal History Board
and mjustice posted:...New Yorkers pay $255 for three years
12ga posted:...and pony up the cash every three years.
and sonny said: ...and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.

$255 + $74 = $329, for three years...roughly $100/per year/per gun? Unless you tell us that some of these charges are "one time only"...or not repeated for multiple handgun purchases.

That is not what I deduced from the thread, but I don't pretend to be an expert, and am not trying to get into an argument. Just trying to correctly understand the facts. Aside from the cost involved, what are the implications for the small handgun collector? Seems like it would be a major hassle to register/unregister guns that you bought and sold in the course of a year. Waiting months to approve each purchase? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding things... Regards.

[Baba Louie]

Ah Vermont.

Now theres a state with gun laws I kinda like.

Do they have any that "INFRINGE" on the right to keep and bear arms?

So close to NY too.

Wonder what went wrong with them?

Adios all, Done with this thread... for now.

[sonny]

http://nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html ....regards:)

[TheOtherOne]

:rolleyes:

If only he would have waited 8-12 months to get a registered, legal handgun... then he could of at least protected his mothers grave site from potential vandals.


If I lived in NYC where criminals, for who knows why, refuse to follow the law of not carrying a gun, I would sure own a handgun too. Regardless of what anyone says about legality. I guess it's good I don't live in NYC.

[hammer4nc]

sonny,

Unless I'm missing something, the link you posted says nothing about a 3-year timeframe, renewal costs, or multiple handgun purchases...

Excerpt from the link:
PREMISES LICENSE: IS A RESTRICTED TYPE OF LICENSE. It is issued for your RESIDENCE or BUSINESS. The Licensee may possess a handgun ONLY on the premises of the address indicated on the front of the license.

If one reads this literally, "a handgun" means one (1) handgun. Or the whole thing could be poorly written. Multiple handguns?Now I'm more confused.

[riverdog]

IT'S NOT NORMAL....IT'S CRIMINAL....I have stated that over and over....All I am suggesting is that New Yorkers should not be intimidated by the abnormal way in which the city scares off potential handguners. Fair enough, maybe I have misread what you wrote, but when I read:Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?
If you are NOT a felon....It is no more difficult to get a handgun permit than it is to get a rifle/shotgun permit.
Yes it takes longer... yes it is more expensive and yes you need a seperate purchase order for each additional handgun.
The bottom line is if you want one and are not a felon you'll get it.....you just have to wait....a long time "Why does everyone think it is so hard to get a handgun permit in NYC?" Because it is incredibly burdomsome with an incredibly long waiting period -- JUST TO BUY A GUN. Everyone thinks it is so hard because it is hard ... well, everyone but Sonny thinks it's hard ;)

[sonny]

hammer4nc,
I forgot how unspecific NYC firearm website is ....sorry
After the initial waiting period and fees you don't get charged again for initial handguns.....one every three months if you want.
That is another rule we all object to but have not been able to change as of yet.
I hope that answeres your question.
As far as the written law NYC is famous for not being specific,it is very frustrating....believe me
The permit most of us get is a home defense with a target shooting endorsment......We may keep it loaded at home and when going to the range we must keep it in a locked container unloaded with bullets seperate.WE did win the battle that alows us to go to the range anytime we like instead of the old law that allowed us two days a month that had to be specified before hand.........go ahead and laugh.....but a win is a win in my book.
Locked container is unspecific.......wood? ...metal?...a fannypack?
doesn't specify.....very confusing.
The renewal fee is the same no matter how many guns you own since it does not say on the website I thought I'd let you know.

Thinking about moving here?.....change your name to...........
hammer4nYc.....we could use all the pro gunners we can get
:evil:

[Robby from Long Island]

I really don't want to get involved in the requirement section of NYC law pertaining to private ownership of handguns as I am not a resident of NYC.

The handgun license I have for Suffolk County is for Premise only. It is very difficult to get a carry permit on Long Island. The premise permit does allow target shooting .

[Robby from Long Island]

Sonny,

Sorry I couldn't be more help to you on this issue today, but I have a house full of company and haven't been able to get away.

Seems you have done a great job with NYC requirements directly from the NYPD.

As far as Suffolk County is concerned, there is no restrictions on the number of handguns you may own under the one license nor are there any additional charges for owning several guns.

BTW, where do you do your target shooting?

Safe shooting.

[sonny]

Mostly west side range in NYC and Woodhaven in Queens.
I shoot on private property upstate when possible.I'd invite you to shoot in the city but unfortunatly you are not allowed.
That should give some of the others something else to mock and laugh about..........what the hell.
I've been out to the ranges on the island on occasion ...what's your favorite outdoor range .....are the range masters ball breakers or do they let you have fun as long as you are safe?

[Robby from Long Island]

I shoot out at the Calverton range in Calverton, L.I

It is a privately owned range that covers pistol, shotgun, black powder and rifle. The rifle facility has a 100, 200 and 300 yard ranges.

It is a very relaxed place with the range officer only controlling the rifle range. Pistol and black powder is controlled by the shooters themselves who determine when a cease fire is in order. I've never seen a time when shooters don't respect someones request for a cease fire to check or change targets.

It's pretty much 15 minutes shooting and 5 for cease fire.

There are no restrictions as to how long you may stay as there are seldom that many shooters there at one time. Been shooting there for about 20 years.

[DeltaElite]

The permit system is a shame, no permit is needed, according to the 2A.

Finally........ My State is bigger than your State and my Governor can beat up your Governor. :neener: :neener:

[mjustice]

The process to get a pistol license is "simple" only if you fit their narrowly defined requirements.

For example:

If you're a foreign national with permanent resident status and you've been in the US of A for less than 7 years, you need to obtain a certificate of good conduct from your country of origin. What the hell is that about?

They ask if you have ever held any kind of license or permit from any agency at any time. If you fail to provide a statement about your driver's license, they can reject your application and keep your money!

You want a carry license for your business? Be prepared to show tax returns for the past year along with other business records. They can be just as invasive as the IRS.

The bottom line is that the airman was not eligble for a license, and depending on where his mother was born, it might not be easy for her either.

New York City goes out of their way to make things difficult. Even if you have a pistol license, you can only purchase one firearm every 90 days, and it can take up to 30 days for them to issue the paperwork. Every other county in the state can do this in one day and you can usually buy as many handguns as you can carry out of the store.

Things have become so bad in recent years even the "elite" have problems these days. One man (a magazine editor) lost his license after being arrested in a peaceful demonstration at police headquarters.

The real problem is that the men who could fix this problem (the speaker of the NYS Assembly, Sheldon Silver, and the chairman of the NYS Assembly Codes Committee, Joe Lentol) don't care because they are anti jerks who won't let the bill see the light of day because it doesn't jive with their interests, and it won't get them more votes.

The system has been a sick joke for 92 years and shows no real signs of changing anytime soon - and the gun owners share in the blame since the 2A movement in this state is badly fractured.

MJ

[twoblink]

It seems to me, that the DA needs to get robbed... That's just me personally...

[jmbg29]

If only he would have waited 8-12 months to get a registered, legal handgun... then he could of at least protected his mothers grave site from potential vandals.Nope! PREMISES LICENSE: IS A RESTRICTED TYPE OF LICENSE. It is issued for your RESIDENCE or BUSINESS. The Licensee may possess a handgun ONLY on the premises of the address indicated on the front of the license.As others here have said, it is next to impossible to get a carry license in N.Y.C. (you have to be able to prove that your life is worth protecting).:fire: :cuss: :banghead: :barf:

[TheOtherOne]

:) Yeah, I realized that after I typed it. Unless his mother's grave was ashes up on the mantle of his apartment... he couldn't even protect that.

It's a sad country we live in sometimes. But with that said, I still wouldn't want to be any place else.

[sar]

As a very pro-gun new yorker who wears his NRA hat in Manhattan and the Hamptons I take alot of crap from the liberals I am surrounded and outumbered by. I have concluded that most people here want to be coddled by the state and feel safe with alot of meaningless laws. But most of all they don't want to take responsibility for their own safety - it drives me mad.

Most of all the anti's I run into feel superior to because it is 'intellectual' to oppose guns. When people at work hear that I took days off to hunt I get every snide remark in the book and I explain to them in my backround hunting is a religion. But I work with guys who never fish or hunt with their fathers or sons.

Those of us 2A's try our best - I take people to my range and introduce as many people to shooting as possible as well as the conception that their personal safety is their job.

But we are so outnumbered it is hopeless think that things will change - I will continue to the fight the libs and anti's but I know in the end I will move back to the hills and leave NYC to the animals.

The extent of peoples lack of thought was brought home after 9/11. For some reason people flocked to my gun range and wanted to buy pistols and shotguns. It was common to hear them get frustrated at the range workers for the 8 to 12 month wait. They would ask why and all we would say is - "Who did you vote for?"

[mjustice]

Sar:

Are you involved with any of the local gun-rights groups (Friends of the NRA doesn't count ;))? SCOPE's NYC Chapter? SAFE? WCFOA?

MJ

[12GA]

Sar,
Did you get my email?

[dart21]

Does anybody know what N.Y.C laws entail in regards to "Justifiable Homicide" with a legally owned firearm?
I live in N.Y.C (civilian), have a N.Y.C premise permit, have a registered handgun; However, I am uncertain when it comes to protecting my family and property from intruders.
When I received my permit and registered my gun with N.Y.P.D, they provided me with 'no feedback' in reference to Justifiable shooting's. Additionally, I have researched and found NO information to reference.The incongruities and ambiguities concerning these matters, can create uncertainties and confusion for legally abiding Gun owners in N.Y.C as myself.
In the event of an intrusion, from a tactical point of view, many scenerios can transpire (intruder in: backyard, hallway, apartment, basement, etc.) Many circumstances, as well ( intruder armed, unarmed, aggressive, non-aggresive, accompanied, etc.) I just want to know what my limitations are (how many shots too many), hence, in an emergency, I will know what to do, and what not to do.
Also, I commend the individuals in these stories, of whom defended their lives and those of their loved ones. By any means.

[PCGS65]

A spokesman for Queens District Attorney Richard Brown said Falquez would be charged with criminal possession of a weapon.
I say give him a check/reward and a medal for doing the cops job and saving lives and taxpayers money. :cuss:

[Flyboy]

The D.A. deserves to be fired.
...at. The D.A. deserves to be fired at.

I would also have accepted "...out of a cannon."

[Kim]

I would like to know how long the dead man stayed in prision for his two prior felonies committed with a handgun. Yea all those laws keep this twice felon from committing his 3rd with a handgun. Wonder if he had a permit??????????? I do wonder how long he was in prision for the type of crimes the liberals say they pass their stupid him laws to prevent. Anyone want to bet it was not long at all. :scrutiny:

[beerslurpy]

I love all the apologists who try to play off NYC's laws as reasonable because it only takes several months of effort (longer than federal MG clearance times) and 300 dollars (more money than registering a MG!) to get a single pistol to keep in the privacy of your own home. Unlike a machine gun, you have to do it again every 3 years and you can lose it if you get ARRESTED.

NYCs gun laws have been an abomination for nearly a century. To keep a gun inside your house should require absolutely no permit whatsoever. Nor permission. Nor license. Nor a stinking fee. The only time these laws ever become relevant is when an otherwise law-abiding citizen averts an immediate tragedy by defending themselves. The criminals all have loads of weapons. Note that the criminal in this case was armed with a revolver.

[Igloodude]

Props to the kid, on many levels. I probably would have taken a little of the cash lying around and used it to move my mom to someplace that isn't NYC.

Anyway, like someone else, I wonder if his lawyer couldn't use the 'doctrine of competing harms' to get clear of this. Is it possible that the ADA is looking to avoid a grand jury indictment because if this goes to trial there [I]could[I] be a precedent set with respect to that doctrine, that will lead to positive RKBA progress?

[Janitor]

The laws in NYC are amazing to me. To think I need to spend $280-$350 every three years for each handgun (jury's still out on actual total) seems incredible. I cannot understand how anyone would find the cost, the wait, or the mere officiousness of such a law reasonable at any level.

But ...
The kid did exactly the right thing, and N.Y.C. is going to destroy him for it.
and ...
How does that change the fact that N.Y.C. wants this kid's blood?
Try closing your eyes and taking a deep, cleansing breath. Yea - the kid deserves a medal and a vacation rather than to be arrested. But this is a misdemeanor that (rumor has it) they're not even looking for a weekend in jail over.

Not really what I'd call wanting to "destroy" him, and I'm fairly sure that it will hardly involve any blood at all.
-

[Don Gwinn]

You guys do realize the incident you're discussing happened three years ago, right? Right. Carry on.

I wonder what actually happened in this case?

[RangerHAAF]

And a lot of people wonder why Giulani, Bloomberg and other NE Republican politicians don't have the kind of appeal nationally that is necessary to win the White House? I would have thought that they finally understood that you don't get between a man and his guns in this country. Except in California and the North Eastern US.

I've got news for them, the south and western states are scheduled to pick up more seats in Congress after 2010 and a lot of anti-gun strongholds are going to become less relevent to the electoral college.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051222/D8EL8GCG9.html

[twency]

I didn't notice the date stamp untill I'd read about halfway through the thread. Incidentally, it's now $340 + $99.

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html

You can buy a nice handgun just for the price of fees! Sad.

I also like this:
"Arrest Information. . . If you were ever arrested, indicted or summonsed for any reason, other than a traffic infraction, you must answer "Yes" to question #23 on the handgun license application and submit a certificate of disposition showing the offense and disposition. Also, you must submit a detailed, notarized statement describing the circumstances surrounding each arrest or summons. YOU MUST DO THIS EVEN IF: the case was dismissed, the record was sealed or the case was nullified by operation of law. The New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services will report to us every instance involving the criminal prosecution of an applicant. DO NOT rely on anyone's representation that you need not list a previous arrest or summons."

In other words, you better not have ever been arrested for any reason, just as someone suggested above.

_____________
-twency