Limp wristing and M1911A1s

a tighter grip with tensed biceps is the solution

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Biceps are in your upper arm. They do not affect grip strength as far as I am aware.

You may want to consider exercises to build up your grip strength.

I can't ever say I've had a 1911 FTF from limp wristing, even when I've been a bit lazy about holding on tight. Generally the problem occurs in light handguns with polymer or aluminum frame and rarely in a steel frame pistol as the weight of the gun provides enough resistance for function. Most people now shoot 2 handed so LW isn't usually ever a problem even with light polymer or alloy framed guns.

Most of the time when I get a FTF in a 1911 its because of accumulated powder fouling and loss of lubricant. I've seen match shooters lube their 1911's every 100 rounds or so to make sure the gun continues to function 100% during a match.

First:

FTFeed or FTFire?

If it's the former, most feed-related problems can be traced straight to the magazine. Describe the malfunction in as much detail as you can.

Second:

Have you installed a heavy recoil spring?

Over springing the slide can cause short recoil and lead to a feed failure known as Bolt Over Base Misfeed where the live round is caught between the slide and barrel hood, standing straight up. It's also sometimes referred to as Live Round Stovepipe.

A video from one of our forum members

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsewsolPyBU

I was a range NCO many times when officers had to qualify with the M1911A1. There were a lot of female officers who came through with smaller hands and substantially less grip strength than some of the male officers but I never saw an M1911A1 fail to cycle unless there was an identifiable mechanical problem with the firearm.

IMO, the M1911A1 generally is not suseptable to "limp wristing"

Early last year I noticed I was getting fatigued at the range doing offhand shooting. After 20 minutes or so of shooting I couldn't hold a steady sight picture, my arms were trembling.

I was a little amazed at this because I hadn't had the problem before, and every morning I do pushups, situps, leg lifts and I curl 30lb dumbells. I also ran and did cycling.

At that time I also purchased a Glock 17L, and I was not able to dry fire it and maintain good follow through - the sight always twitched to the right. I had people tell me I had to pull the trigger more slowly - more slowly still. I had people tell me I needed stronger fingers so I could do a smooth pull...

I started doing research and I added different exercises to my workout.

I started working out with Grip Master finger exercisers.

I also started doing Hammer curls:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Brachioradialis/DBHammerCurl.html

Ulnar dumbell:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/WristFlexors/DBUlnarFlexion.html

Wrist curls:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/WristFlexors/DBWristCurl.html

Reverse wrist curls:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/WristExtensors/DBReverseWristCurl.html

Wrist roller:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/WristExtensors/CBRollerWristExtention.html

And Captains of Crush gripppers.


It has made a huge difference in keeping a steady sight picture, and being able to shoot better for extended range sessions.

It never did fix the Glock trigger and having better follow-through. I didn't have that problem with my HK P7M8 so I figured it was the gun not me. I got a trigger kit for the Glock and that fixed it

Here's the thing...

In a sudden emergency/gotta shoot to stay alive situation, you have no guarantee of obtaining just the right grip and stance, and there's about a 50/50 chance that you won't even be able to get two hands on the gun. If you're carrying a gun that requires just the right two-handed grip in order to function reliably...you just can't trust a snake like that.

IMO: With a properly working steel frame pistol, and a stock 16 pound spring?

I don't believe it is possible to limp wrest a 1911.

We used to do firing displays in the Army to dispel the stories the recruits had heard about the 1911 kicking like a mule.

The demonstration was to fire a full magazine holding the gun with only the trigger finger and thumb around the grip safety.

The gun weighs enough to support itself against slide recoil and should function just fine.

rc

Tired_and_hungry said:

To 1911Tuner and all others who can help:

Firstly, upon inspection, my magazines appear to be in good shape with the feedlips undamaged and the spring tension adequate.

Secondly, the problem occurs as such......I load a full 7 round factory mangazine or 8 round aftermarket magazine into the pistol, rack the slide and proceed to fire 2 - 4 rounds when one of the empty cases will eject successfully but the return movement of the slide fails to perfectly strip the next round off the magazine and into the chamber. Instead, the fresh unfired cartridge appears to be stuck between the feedlips off the magazine and with the head or projectile jammed up against the hood of the chamber.

Additionally, since the recoil spring that came with the gun seemed weak, I swapped it out for a Wolff 1911 factory spec 16 pound recoil spring.

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Sounds like a three-point jam. I'm sure Tuner will be along with better advice than I can give.

I think the 'limp wristing' is often blamed when there are other problems. It is also possible that other problems are more likely to cause failure if it is limp wristed.

I think the 'limp wristing' is often blamed when there are other problems.

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Agreed. IMO it is used far too often as an excuse, along with the "500-round break-in." Five hundred rounds is nearly $200 in range ammo these days.

Sounds like a three-point jam.

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There's one way to tell. Induce the stoppage, and use a length of wood to bump the muzzle straight back...briskly enough to move the slide a little...but not with excessive force. If the slide snaps to battery, it's a 3-Point. If it doesn't, it's either magazine or extractor related.

On the extractor...

The tension may be okay and still produce failures to go to battery if there's too much deflection...or too much of the tensioning wall protruding into the breechface. In some instances, you can remove tension until a round falls off the slide, and still get RTB issues. I see this particular problem pretty often these days. Twice just recently on a Colt and a Springfield...both with OEM extractors.

I was teaching a 13 year old to shoot my 1911 Series 80 and that kid could induce a jam every 4 to 6 rounds almost like clock work.
Same magazine, same ammo and I could not get it to happen.
Smaller hands less grip, I'm not sure but I would definatly number my mags and slowly but surely troubleshoot my pistol one methodical step at a time until I came up with the answer.

When was the last time you changed the recoil and hammer springs on the pistol and the magazine springs in those boxy flat things that go inside the grip?

If you don't know, it may be time for a little preventive maintenance. Spend $30 and do it all at once. See if that doesn't fix it.

If your elbows are even kinda locked, the gun should work fine. The only way I can make a 1911 "limp wrist" is to ride the recoil backward as if I was pretending to shoot a gun. Otherwise, a 1911 with good springs should work just fine.

Try to apply some scientific engineering

If you are tired you better sleep, if you are hungry you better eat.

You can solve your problem by calculating the remaining velocity of the slide quite easily using the metric system.

from bullet weight, velocity and slide weight you get recoil velocity of the slide.
From recoil velocity, slide weight, spring force and slide travel distance you get the final velocity of the slide as well as the Impulse Io in gram/sec to operate your pistol which should be about 390g/s. At the time you can also insert the distance of the slide travel to the impact point on the ejector to get the side velocity at the time of ejection.

I have seen people put their left index finger against the slide to cause malfunctions. One CZ 75 kept staying open with cartridges still in the magazine. He denied that he lifted the hold open lever until I took hi-sped pictures showing his mistake.
Regards

WAH

I have seen people put their left index finger against the slide to cause malfunctions.

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Not difficult at all with a locked breech pistol. Imposing an outside force on the slide before it gets any momentum from acceleration will stop one in its tracks pretty easily.

Observe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw8sbb8eDjg

Once it gets a full measure of both, it's a little different story. Basically, the path to preventing limp-wrist malfunctions is to stop worrying over frame damage and avoid overspringing the slide. If your small wife or girlfriend experiences malfunctions that you don't with the same pistol...drop the spring rate a couple pounds for her and let her have at it.

I shoot in a pistol league and we always do strong hand and weak hand shooting. I intentionally limp wristed my Springfield Operator while shooting weak hand and was able to get a Failure to Eject. It took a lot of trying with a very weak grip and I was only able to get it to happen once. I would agree with the previous posts about the 1911 not being very susceptible to limp wristing.