Checking the buyer without the gun. I could buy that.

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gdcpony

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Finally, an idea I could jump on board with. So long as this would replace the broken system we have now. The idea could use some tweaking as the thread posts say, but a variation of this could be used rather effectively I think.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=689033

One of the main problems with background checks is they tend to turn into de-facto registration. Registration in turn increases government temptation to confiscation. If it looks like Congress is going to pass universal background check legislation, maybe we can derail it by holding out for a compromise that prevents de-facto registration.

It could work like this. When you want to buy a gun you go to the government website yourself on your own computer at home or wherever you want. You request a background check certificate in your name. When the check has completed, you are given a certificate that is cryptographically signed by the government, declaring you passed the check. You can print out this certificate on your own printer and take it with you to buy one or more guns from one or more sellers. Since no gun serial numbers are entered and there is no further contact with the government in the transfer process to find out who you bought a gun from or how many, there is no de-facto registration.

Because the background check certificate is cryptographically signed by the government, anyone with a computer can easily verify that the certificate is genuinely issued by the government and can not have been altered in the slightest way, not so much as a comma added or a space inserted. This is possible because cryptographic signatures do a mathematical operation on every single character, space, and period in the document, where the result of the math operation will change if there is the slightest change in the document. If you doubt this, I don't blame you, but with further explanation I won't go into yet, I am confident I can convince practically everybody that this is reliably true for practical purposes.
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Perhaps rolling it in with other things that required background checks. I would not want a registry of gun owners any more than guns.
 
gdcpony said:
Finally, an idea I could jump on board with.
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22 states already issue documents (permits or licenses to purchase, possess, or carry firearms) that qualify as alternatives to NICS checks. The states issue the documents for terms up to 5 years.
 
I would prefer that if you have been issued a drivers license, you must own at least one gun...or if you own property...or if you are a citizen. What I would REALLY like is for all the antis to be forced to own a gun. They want to push their crap on me, so I would like to cram a little down their throat for a change.

I feel better now.
 
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gc70 said:
22 states already issue documents (permits or licenses to purchase, possess, or carry firearms) that qualify as alternatives to NICS checks. The states issue the documents for terms up to 5 years.
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My CCW does in OH. I like it. I wish it worked nation wide as I am stationed in NC right now.

I know this is no perfect solution, but we will never get rid of background checks. It just won't happen. Sorry. However, if I can be cleared for a period, say even a year, to buy whatever firearms (or not buy), then it actually works more to my benefit than the current system. It would track those "eligible to purchase" not actually purchasers. It is a true compromise as they would be giving up the forms currently maintained that have a purchaser linked to a firearm at an FFL.
 
Why not just a national id card with a common access card chip similar to my military ID. You could use it for multiple things. Whoever just checks the ID to make sure it is the owner, pops it into a card reader and goes to a national database site, the person who owns the ID enters their pin and then the info pops up with something like:

Vote: Eligible
Firearm: Eligible
Social Security # XXX-XX-XXXX

Then you do your business or vote or whatever.
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Better yet just do that with your current form of ID. They could ad a little program to do that and match it with the card's strip and bar code. No chip required
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I was just thinking the chip since you can put other info on it as well. Things like health insurance eligibility, car insurance stuff, plus you need a pin to activate it so not only would it be a picture ID but you would have another layer of security unlike with regular ID's.
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Here it is.
 
Why not just a national id card with a common access card chip similar to my military ID. You could use it for multiple things. Whoever just checks the ID to make sure it is the owner, pops it into a card reader and goes to a national database site, the person who owns the ID enters their pin and then the info pops up with something like:

Vote: Eligible
Firearm: Eligible
Social Security # XXX-XX-XXXX

Then you do your business or vote or whatever.
Click to expand...
Quote:
Better yet just do that with your current form of ID. They could ad a little program to do that and match it with the card's strip and bar code. No chip required
Click to expand...
Quote:
I was just thinking the chip since you can put other info on it as well. Things like health insurance eligibility, car insurance stuff, plus you need a pin to activate it so not only would it be a picture ID but you would have another layer of security unlike with regular ID's.
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Well those all sound like really fantastic ways to streamline oppression and turn rights into privileges efficiently. I'm sure our benevolent leaders will eat it up.
 
find a way to make criminals follow any such system and I'd consider it.
 
Please remember that the people dreaming up this stuff, the people you want to "compromise" with are not at all concerned with our convienience, privacy, or desire to make the process as fast and inexpnsive as possible. They hate the fact that you want to buy a gun at all and any pretense of giving a dam about how it affects us is only syrup to make the poison go down easier. :fire:
 
I would not mind such a system. I would like a way to sell a gun privately without worrying about whether the guy just got out of prison for armed robbery.

I don't see a problem with a gun "buyer's license". It doesn't prove you own any guns, just that you considered it at one point.
 
I see that, but I am thinking of a way that allows us to stick it to them in a way as well. They want all guns registered. That is the real meaning behind private party checks. They think it would force the registration. This way they don't get anything. They get at most a list of people who "may" have bought a gun, but who knows which type.

Of course this is dependent on getting it through that way. That I think is the problem. But if we see the registration (my worst fear) going through, this may alter the game.
 
find a way to make criminals follow any such system and I'd consider it.

Me too. There's just no reason for govt to know who has what other than confiscation.
 
Make the database of felons public. Someone tries to buy a gun from me, I log in, look them up. I can do it. Government doesn't need to be involved. Just provide the data. Simple.
 
Why does anyone need to check anything? I'm insulted every time a gun shop has to call NICS when I buy a gun. I'm not a criminal, and until/unless I do something that makes me a criminal it shouldn't be anyone's business what, how many, or how much I buy.
 
little changes and add ons have been happening to gun rights for decades, before you know it we will have nothing left, NO COMPROMISE

Give a dictator an "inch" and he makes a "ruler"
 
Make the database of felons public. Someone tries to buy a gun from me, I log in, look them up. I can do it. Government doesn't need to be involved. Just provide the data. Simple.
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We should not further brand felons, especially when not everyone on that list is a felon. open this database it will be abused for everything from employment to first dates.

Yes it would be nice to be able to know the person you are selling to is ok but I'm still waiting for the solution that is not worse than the problem. Criminals will ignore any requirement and continue to trade in stolen firearms. There are plenty of people out there that will conduct a straw purchase for $50. ban them completely and you make a black market, how is prohibition errr the drug war going again?
 
I already have to get a background check to buy a gun from an LGS. Decoupling the background check from the actual purchase would be a step in the right direction, especially if the background check wasn't gun purchase specific.

I do wish that my CCW permit would suffice here in Colorado though, especially with the current de facto 14-day waiting period.
 
Of course we could always go back to the old way and brand felons

p.s. with todays tech we could probably do it one better with a color shifted ink that indicates how many years they have been out of prison for those that want a felons rights to buy guns restored after X years.
 
why not put a flag on drivers licenses that says this person has passed a background check.
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Rather than turning a presumption of innocence upon its head--which is what background checks do--why not just label or flag the ID of those who are prohibited?

Rather than making a tenth of the US population leap through hoops to prove their innocence beyond all reasonable doubt for very transaction, it would be far more economical to merely track that much smaller population we know, and have already proven, guilty?

Any objections about fake ID, or the "burden" upon the indigent or impoverished are canards, as using false or stolen identification is already illegal everywhere. "Straw man" purchases are equally illegal, as well.

Given how many States already have magnetic strips on the ID in use, having a "Denied" field in the data would not be much additional burden. For those concerned about mental health issues, or TRO, or the like, that could be part of the electronic information, too.

Note that doing it this way defaults to "shall issue."
Note that doing it this way means the bearer is not surprised by a "deny"--in fact, a strong(er) case exists to hold such a person for authorities (something an NICS "deny" cannot).

But, perhaps I'm a tad cranky over having to constantly prove I am innocent of being a monster, an unstable person, a criminal or abetter of criminals, too.
 
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