50-state legal home defense carbine - a concept

What would this do that an AR couldn't?

I don't ask to shoot your idea down, but because that would be your primary competition.

I would be interested in seeing a sketch of this, as well. I do like the concept a lot... a Modern M1 Carbine would be sweet.

No need to create a new carbine that is 50 State legal, just buy a Beretta CX4

Can't think of any State that could ban it.

Why would I buy a nerfed weapon out here in the real world?

My M1 Carbines do all that that gun could, and don't have a silly bullet button or on-purpose low-cap or stripper clips
- detachable magazines are modern tech, they're here to stay until something better comes along

My Sub2000 does all that carbine could, and folds, AND takes Block mags, up to 33 rounds easily available
... for that matter, this resembles a Hi-Point carbine in a lot of ways ... and while a HP carbine is about as much long gun as you can get for <$200, even it takes detachable mags

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Don't get me wrong, I see features you listed that I like, I just wouldn't buy the neutered weapon you want to attach them to.
Aperture sights? Great! F.O. front? Great!
Interchangeablity of parts? Good idea!
Multi-caliber? Good!
Lightweight PCC? Love 'em!

But then we get to the garbage that panders to the subjects of CA/NY/NJ/etc ...
Bullet Button? NOPE!
Fixed mag? NOOOOOOPE!
Stripper clips on a defensive weapon? NO, NO, NO!

The biggest problem with a carbine that's legal in all 50 states is it suggests that the rest of us ought to willingly comply with restrictions imposed in states like CA and NY. Most people won't do that. I sure wouldn't.

Laws change. Some feature of your concept that is legal in all 50 states today may be legal in only 49 tomorrow.

No need to create a new carbine that is 50 State legal, just buy a Beretta CX4

Can't think of any State that could ban it.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure they banned the Beretta in CT by name in the bill they passed just recently. Banned thumb-hole stocks too so it's out anyway.

I had a .40 cal Beretta CX4 thinking it would be an ideal home defense, all around weapon, and it could have been but it was unfortunately a great idea poorly executed.

-Absolutely lousy trigger, so heavy I thought the safety was still on at times.
-No included top rail, and if you did buy one, you had to drill to install it. In this day and age? Unaccepable.
-The silly and flimsy extendable "rail" on the front serves no purpose.
-The molded in sights don't properly co-witness with most RDS sights.
-It should have been set up to allow spare mags to be carried in the buttstock, like the Styer scout rifle.

Those are my major gripes with the Beretta. If they were to redo it trading the silly swoopy styling for functionality and putting a decent trigger on it, they'd really have something. I would LOVE to se the concept done properly and would buy one in a second. A light handy carbine in 9mm/.40/.45 would be fantastically usefull. The 50 state part probobly wouldn't work as it would cause too many silly and detrimental design compromises delegated by the virulent anti-gun states. But still, a well done carbine such as an updated version of the military's M1 Carbine would be a real winner in my book.

Hi Point 995 was designed to be compliant with the AWB and now it's lumped with the other rifles that the politicians wish to ban.

No matter what is created to be compliant, in a few years it will probably be on the ban list.

This shows that it's not the type of gun that politicians want banned, it's all guns they want banned.

There is a very good chance that what you describe won't be 50-state legal.

CA SB 47 would, if made law, render about half your features meaningless. That's a current SB for 2013.

If you want to get the job done, a 20” barrel 1892 clone in .44 magnum is, as far as I know, North America legal. As in 50 states + with the proper (attainable) paperwork you could legally travel through Canada or Mexico with one.

If you want to do something cool, put that mental energy into fighting the laws. Much harder problem of course but if you don't fight the laws they'll eventually(January 1st, 2014 in this case) explicitly address the loophole magazine tools and become so strict that basically no semi-auto guns are legal to sell.

There is no ,"one weapon fits all." That`s like saying,every one needs to drive the same car.

The op wasn't after a "one weapon fits all", he was looking for....

Cars are a good example. It's easy to forget nowadays but for decades there were "49 state" cars and "50 state" cars. The difference wasn't that 50-state cars were "one car fits all", but that 49-state cars could be sold in all but one state. The cars were basically identical, but the 50th state required some extra equipment that raised the price by a hundreds of dollars. Of course nobody outside of that 50th state bought "50 state" cars.

I am not sure home defense is legal in all 50 states

Owl... the one major flaw in your initial concept that I see is the limitation on round capacity. You may think that limiting rounds is a good idea ... but I must disagree. In many parts of the country that might not be a problem but down here in Miami any confrontation with violence a strong possibility will have you facing multiple opponents. This isn't an exaggeration or armchair commando stuff. I worked local streets for 22 years and have a pretty good idea of what's possible, locally. As a retired cop I've chosen not to carry sidearms at all. My best defense is avoidance and that's worked pretty well for me (I don't advocate it for anyone else, at all...). If you choose to be an armed citizen down here you'd better be prepared and any weapon with a limited round capacity will never get my approval. A shotgun with addtional rounds on hand is a very good choice -but for pistol caliber weapons you're just asking to get in over your head unless you're using them while fleeing the scene....

SINGLE SHOT Ruger #1 in 45/70.

If I remember right ... Beretta CX4's and Hi-Points are illegal in CA ... or require some sort of mod (bullet button maybe). I looked into it a few years ago and was disappointed because the CX4 would have made a great home defense carbine for my family. AR's "don't work" for a lot of families because their appearance is too much like a military weapon - wives don't have a love affair with them

To be successful -your proposed carbine must look like a home gun and not a military knockoff. In other words - use more wood and less black plastic Also, it needs to meet all the CA restrictions on weapons. If you do that - you might have something that would really sell!

I personally would vote for a carbine that fires 357 magnums. But your choices of ammo are fine for home defense.

CA R

The problem is you can't divorce it from politics if half the signature features (tool-release mags, etc.) are the product of changeable politics.

This will be a niche gun useful in 2 or 3 states that ban ordinary carbines, methinks. Some thoughts:

If you're limited to a pre-1861 magazine size (if it's to be 50-state legal, you're limited to only 7 rounds!), the performance of those rounds had better make up for the absolute lack of reserve capacity. For that reason, I think full-house 125gr .357 would be better than 9mm or .40 S&W. If you go with 9mm, design it to function with everything from regular ammo to +P+.

You'd need to either invent a better way to load a magazine from stripper clips, or think about other solutions for reloading. Compared to regular magazines, stripper clips are slow and fumble-prone. I'd suggest looking at an en-bloc clip instead (like the M1 Garand) and sell 7-round, 10-round, and 15-round versions to meet the needs of people in those states with restrictions.

.357 mag lever gun.

here's one thing you really need to think about.
and this was what was REALLY on my mind when I wanted a home defense carbine.

who is actually gonna' use this carbine?
Answer: a very nervous wife ... with two kids in the adjacent bedroom.
picture a situation where the husband is out of town on a business trip, so the wife and the kids are nervous. it's the middle of the night and there's a loud noise downstairs - clearly someone is breaking into the house. so the wife does what any mother would do - she grabs the carbine and rounds up the kids at the same time. it's a VERY difficult scenario - lots of fear, real danger, kids involved, a home owner holding a gun who does not have much training with the weapon.

so your weapon needs to be super user-friendly. very good ergonomics. fits the human body really well. has low recoil. is accurate.

there is always a place in the market for well-designed products.

CA R

I personally think a semi-auto .45ACP carbine using standard 1911 magazines would be a very nice little weapon. To my knowledge one hasn't been mass-produced, although I've seen custom bolt-action carbines like this.

Look into the MechTECH CCU. It is blowback done right (high reciprocating mass). The bolt and bold carrier weigh over 3 lb in the case of my 10mm (half the total weight of the gun) and it shoots cleaner than most pistols. High spring pre-tension helps but because of the progressive nature of springs (Hooke's Law) you need mass to delay a blowback. It has a manual hold open but can be configured to meet all of your other requirements.
It will shoot 2-3 MOA all day long.

Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm will hit 1000 ft-lbs from a 13-14" barrel (slow a tad by 16") with recoil like a .223 varminter.

Mike

PS. Just avoid the temptation to make it Tacticool which I think is the reason many don't take the platform seriously. The options and accessories cater to the Tacticool market but the MechTech forum is full of tasteful accessory ideas.