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‘Universal Background Checks’ – Absolutely Not

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Dean Weingarten, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten New Member

    Florida - -(Ammoland.com)- Imagine a grandfather who wants to give a family shotgun to his 12-year-old grandson having to do a background check on his grandson before giving him the shotgun.

    Or a friend having to do a background check on his lifetime best buddy before lending him a hunting rifle.

    Or, if your mother had a prowler at her home, having to do a background check on your own Mom before you could give her one of your guns for protection.

    That’s what “universal background checks” do. They turn traditional innocent conduct into a criminal offense. They target you, law-abiding gun owners.

    Universal background checks are background checks on EVERY transfer, sale, purchase, trade, gift, rental, and loan of a firearm between any and all individuals.

    All background checks must be conducted through a federally licensed dealer. (costing hard earned cash) Universal background checks have nothing to do with gun shows – they are about you.

    It is ALREADY a federal felony to be engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms and ammunition without having federal firearm dealers license.
    It is ALREADY a crime for a federally licensed dealer to sell a gun without doing a background check – that’s all dealers, everywhere, including at retail stores, gun shows, flea markets or anywhere else.
    Further, it is ALREADY a federal felony for any private person to sell, trade, give, lend, rent or transfer a gun to a person you know or should have known is not legally allowed to own, purchase or possess a firearm.

    The penalty for selling a gun to a person who is a criminal, mentally ill, mentally incompetent, alcohol abuser or drug abuser is 10-year federal felony. That’s now, today, with no changes to the law.

    It is even a federal felony to submit false information on a background check form for the purpose of purchasing a firearm.

    Even so, according to a 2012 report to the Department of Justice, more than 72,000 people were turned down on a gun purchase in 2010 because they didn’t pass the background check. Yet, only 44 of those cases were prosecuted.
    On Thursday, January 10, 2013, in the White House meeting of President Obama’s Gun Agenda Task Force, Vice President Joe Biden answered that question, telling NRA’s Director of Federal Affairs, James Baker, that the Obama administration didn’t have time to prosecute people for lying on the federal background check form.

    If the Obama Administration currently doesn’t have the time or manpower to prosecute those who lie on background check forms, then why do they want more background checks, more paperwork and more forms? It’s backdoor gun registration.

    Universal background check system legislation that we have previously seen, allows the government to keep a computerized government registry of gun owners.

    In addition to the absurdity of having to do background checks on people you know are not criminals, would you like to pay up to $100 or more just to give your grandson a shotgun or lend a hunting rifle to your best friend or give your Mom a gun for protection?

    Transfer fees alone could run from $50 up. Firearms dealers, like other businesses, charge as much as they can get away with. Background check fees for a federally mandated program can be any amount they decide.

    The Obama administration’s gun ban agenda and universal background check system are unconstitutional regulatory schemes to gut the Second Amendment. These proposals which mandate the government collection of data on lawful gun buyers and sellers amount to universal gun registration and gun owner licensing.

    This agenda focuses on peaceable citizens, not violent criminals who obtain guns on the black-market to carry out unspeakable crimes already prohibited under federal and state laws. Instead of stopping crime and eliminating criminal conduct, they are creating more criminals – they are targeting you.

    That’s why NRA Members and the nation’s 100 million firearms owners will stand in solidarity and fight against these misguided and diabolical proposals that have nothing whatsoever to do with curbing criminal violence but everything to do with stripping us of our guaranteed civil rights and our freedom.

    Marion P. Hammer is past President of the National Rifle Association and is Executive Director of Unified Sportsmen of Florida

    Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/universal-background-checks-absolutely-not/#ixzz2IpPp1FnT
  2. Dentite

    Dentite Member

    Thanks for sharing
  3. Skribs

    Skribs New Member

    The big problem with any of this, is that if the law isn't enforced, what is it doing?

    The criminals don't care about the law, they care even less about those that aren't enforced. Law abiding citizens care. Explain to me again how gun control stops crime without affecting us?
  4. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten New Member

    The law delegitimizes the ownership of firearms over time:

    “There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” Ayn Rand

    Once they have made guns illegal to posess without them being registered, then they keep narrowing the requirements to legally possess them. 50 years from now, your grandkids will turn in grandpa's AR or AK or 1911 for an extra food ration.
  5. rdhood

    rdhood New Member

    Biden is correct, and it is because the NICS DATABASE CANNOT BE TRUSTED!

    I was listed as a felon in the NICS system! I had to jump through hoops for a year to get it fixed. If the federal government started prosecuting everyone who failed NICS, then they would run into a fair number of database errors. Can you imagine the firestorm of controversy when the Feds start arresting/prosecuting innocent citizens because their frickin database was WRONG? Can you imagine hundreds of thousands of false arrest/imprisonment lawsuits... for big $$$... against the feds due to simple clerical errors at the local/state level (the error in my record was put there when some data entry personnel transfered paper court documents to the state database... which got transferred to the federal database).

    Sure, they would catch a fair number of unauthorized persons. But hundreds of thousands of innocent, law abiding citizens would be harmed for millions of dollars in damages and a HUGE blow to the credibility of the NICS system. As of now, they simply deny the sale and let the citizen initiate and work to clear things up. Many folks simply give up due to the cost and time associated with clearing their name (leaving the database "broken". Those that do follow up and clear their names doesn't cost the Feds anything at all, and makes their database more correct. In either case, though, a gun never got to a felon and it cost the Feds nothing. In the event that they started prosecutions, they would incur great cost and horrible publicity even with a 1% false failure rate. They cannot risk that.
  6. Tcruse

    Tcruse Member

    Not only are there issues with the accuracy of the database, but also some grey area cases that may very well be subject to the actual wording on legal documents. In my CCW class there was a question about a 30 year old case when the person was 15, that required several exchanges of paperwork to clear up. In that case it turned out to not be something that stopped the person from getting CCW/buying a gun but was denied on first pass. He probably would have been OK to answer N to the question but could have been accused of false statements should it have gone the other way. Could be very expensive for both sides to be too picky in gray areas.
  7. bri

    bri New Member


    Unless you're currently unable to purchase through an FFL, an improved background check system wouldn't hinder you in any way, in the future either.


    Hypothetically, if something like this were to be presented in Congress and had any hope of passing, it would need to contain enough concessions to have any hope of passing. Possibly including exemptions for family members, public access to the system, etc.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  8. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Active Member

    I think you're preaching to the converted. Meanwhile, the drive for "universal background checks" is gathering steam, even among our erstwhile friends. If we don't come up with some plausible counterproposals, and soon, we're going to be left in the dust on this. It does no good to bay at the moon.
  9. goon

    goon New Member

    I wouldn't shed tears if background checks were more widespread and able to be done (or required to be done) by the average guy. No record other than a check was run - it could be for a Mini-14 or a single shot .22 but that information isn't kept.

    But at this point, they have decided not to work with gun owners. I say we give them nothing. Make them force the issue and expend political capital for everything they want, including background checks.
  10. Dean Weingarten

    Dean Weingarten New Member

    It is all smoke and mirrors. They call it "Universal Background Checks" but it is really a big step to Universal Gun Registration.

    None of this would have stopped any of the recent shootings, so why are we even looking at it?

    Simple, it is what they think they can get at this time.
  11. TNBilly

    TNBilly New Member

    Mr. Weingarten.. my thanks for many of your spot on thoughts! This keeps coming up HERE IMO because like most issues are 90% "spin", this one being no difference. Sometimes if not too many times I get the feeling many of the posters here are not supporters of the 2nd amendment, not really. Not surprising I guess but wearing not the less.
  12. Skribs

    Skribs New Member

    As long as the gun was sold on form 4473 prior to the law going into effect, they can't prove I sold the gun after it went into effect.
  13. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Active Member

    As I've mentioned. This is the case in MA and to my knowledge the cheapest transfer fee is $50.00. Now say a friend wants to sell me his beat up single shot 12 gauge for $25. Now I have to pay twice the price just in fees to go through the government?

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