1,000 yard rifle?

Status
Not open for further replies.
SAKO

I'd use a Sako 85 Varmint in 260 Rem. 24" Varmint barrel w/1-8" twist, McMillan A-2 with a Zeiss Conquest 4-12X44 if keeping the cost down but a NightForce 5.5-22X56 if you have the scratch.
 
I like the detachable magazine of the Tikka Tac model, but I have never fired any Tikka and have no idea what they do as far as accuracy.

I had a Steyr Scout for a little while and just could not get all hot and bothered about it.

The Rem M700 XCR tac LR that I currently have in 300 Win Mag fits me as far as balance , cheek weld and so on... But I can only expect half MOA groups from it so far. Although it could be the brass I am using which is just stock Winchester stuff. Up here we do not have many choices at times.
 
USSR,
What load are you using to get a .308 Winchester case to push a 190gr bullet to 2700fps?
with several IMR's, Varget, H4895 and others I am maxed out at 2550-2600fps.
QuickLoad also says the same so be careful.
Click to expand...

You have to use one of only a couple different powders. Personally, I use 47.0gr of VihtaVouri N550 in Hornady Match brass, but I have heard that RL17 will work also, although I don't have any load data for it.

Don
 
Caliber: 6.5 Gibbs
Optics: 4-20x50 Weaver Tactical
Stock: McMillan fiberglass a1
Barrel: Shilen match grade 26"
Receiver: Mauser
Trigger: Timney

Absolutely incredible rifle. Got to handle one made by a local gunsmith,(friend of my father) it was his favorite Gibbs.(His had a different scope than this don't remember exactly what it was, I'd find out but he passed away a few years ago.)
 
I do try for shots at 1000 yards, but these days I'm still working on trying to be proficient at 650 and 700. I'm good at 500 as long as the wind isn't completely out of control, and them I'm marginal.

Save milk jugs, and nail those bad boys at 500 - 700 yards. That's a serious challenge at first, and then a fun challenge to hone skills. I keep shooting, and keep moving the targets back, and keep doing close up stuff, and somebody I'll be able to shoot 1000 very well. Maybe five years from now.

If I could shoot 1000 yards tomorrow, it wouldn't be any fun to finally know you've become an accomplished 1000-yard shot. :)


with this practice, I have killed more than 20 coyotes out past 500 yards over the last few years. probably twice that number inside of 500 yards, and one inside of 10 yards with a 9mm sig. There's an overpopulation at my in-laws ranch in northern idaho.

More than a few times I've shot at the yotes out past 500 and for one reason or another (me, wind, range, bullet, rain, snow, me again) the round misses and the follow-up shots have to be done while the beast is running. I have hit two on the run (yay!) both shoulder shots, but if that first shot isn't right, mostly they will get to some cover. Sometimes they stop and look right before they go into the trees, we are usually ready for that and BOOM, wait for it, wait for it, splat.

I'm doing this with a sako 30'06, but I have borrowed my dad's CZ in 300wm and his sako in 300wsm. my uncle long range habit is with the 300 rum, and he handloads his stuff and is shooting under five inches at 700 yards. It's impressive. I will get there eventually.
 
On the cheap, I'd use one of the rifles I already own. More than likely, I'd just drop my M1A into a Sage chassis and put a Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS F1 with either their NP-R1 or Horus reticule, and work up a load around a 175 gr SMK. For sure, better options exist, across the board. You could argue a semi-auto might be a poor choice for guilt edge accuracy at 1000 yards, and that more accurate semi-autos exist. You could also argue that the 7.62x51 has been surpassed at that range by lower-caliber cartridges shooting higher BC bullets, and that better options exist for the 7.62x51 than the 175 gr SMK. You might be right on all accounts. But the M14 was relegated to Camp Perry and to the sniper DMR role early on and has spent the better part of a century being studied and intensively analyzed in this role--it is a proven system, it works, and of the reports I've read, I have no reason to believe I couldn't get such a system MOA or better with match loads. Same with the 7.62x51--it's been doing this for a while now, and has been examined, tested, and proven on the firing line and the killing fields in ways most cartridges just haven't. We know about everything there is to know about this cartridge, and the 175 gr SMK is a known quantity with a decent track record for both accuracy and terminal ballistics. From my perspective, an ~$800 stock is cheaper than building any new rifle, and regardless, especially for long range accuracy, I don't believe in skimping on glass, so the Nightforce or similar quality optic is going on whatever I choose.

I could also put a Lilja 26 inch #7 stainless fluted 1:9 twist barrel, still in 7mm Rem Mag, on my M700 BDL 7mm, with a thicker recoil lug and some action tuning, drop it in a McMillan A5, add a Badger scope rail and bottom metal, and go to work. Work up some loads around the 168 and 180 gr Bergers, the 175 gr .284 cal SMK, and the 162 gr Hornady Amax, and stick with whatever shoots best downrange. This option allows me to extend my range out past 1200 yards if I so choose, albeit at the expense of added recoil and blast, ammunition/component expense, and barrel life.

From the ground up, I'd probably go with a Savage short action in .284 Winchester stoked with the same bullets as I'd try with the 7 Mag, just at lower velocities.
 
Yes! those were the M3 BDC scopes in answer to a military request to provide drop compensation in 100 yards increments with every click. They had 1MOA click elevation adjustment and 1/2 click windage. The problem is that the scope go to market strategy was flawed from the beginning. The Army never tested the newer rounds and while many had dead on experiences many other folks complained that the scopes were not tracking as the leupold instructions indicated.
Since this was not a problem with the hardware itself, that it was nothing else bu the same internal design with a coarse adjustment, leupold should have known better and should have provided up to date ballistic charts with modern loads and proper documentation.
This is why I believe that there is no single system and scope that can be delivered out of the box and work 100% ok w/o tuning and mapping back to a good and accurate ballistic chart. For this it is paramount that you know the precise speed out of the muzzle and the precise weight of the bullet. Do not trust any published data. I have had the precise same load in two "twin rifles" (exactly the same) fired the same day and the same hour giving different readings. Go figure.

Once in a while someone gets lucky but there is no "easy button" here.

Cheers.
E.
 
I like the detachable magazine of the Tikka Tac model, but I have never fired any Tikka and have no idea what they do as far as accuracy.
Click to expand...

Hi. Read the thread. They all are .5MOA or better out of the box. Great for starters.
The Tikka is nice but personally I would not get too worked out about the magazine since if the detachable magazine is important to you, you can also get a trigger guard with magazine 3rd party solution.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=132600
There also some great ones for the Savage from some guys in Canada.

I think that you pay more and the tikka you might get more often above the .5MOA than the others that more often are below .5MOA.

Another great option is to get the 110BA. You might not need to touch it.
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA
I don't have this model but you should expect always below .5MOA and many loads with .25MOA groups. This model in both .308 and .338 has been chosen by Filipino Swat and Special Operations Forces. They did extensive testing and gave savage a huge contract. ...and I know unfortunately those folks over there have a lot of experience with Gorilla warfare so they know exactly what they want from a sniper rifle.
I think that Savage has been always known to be an affordable and very accurate rifle. Great baseline rifles too.

Other option is the Kimber. So many to choose.

Personally I would go with the Savage tac or the Rem 700 SPS tac. Great starters for the post owner. The owner of this post must be going crazy but I hope this helps.

Cheers,
E.
 
USSR said:
Ah, they ought to quit picking on those poor gorillas. They would be much better off fighting guerrillas.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the movie "Captain Ron" with Kurt Russell and Martin Short .... :D
 
Mark-Smith,
You should be able to get this one well below $700.
http://savagearms.com/firearms/model/10 PRECISION CARBINE

I have the older model Savage 10FP LE1 in .308 and it is a tack driver .5MOA and much better consistently.
Later you can get a stock, etc.. and work on it a little but you do not have to if you don't want. They are great baseline but extremely accurate out of the box. Similar experience with the Rem 700 police and SPS tac.

Look at this guy's one, 3 shots inside a dime... http://www.opticstalk.com/wts-savage-10fple1-spf_topic6134.html

Stick to the "20 barrel. You loose a tad speed in .308 with certain loads but they are more accurate and versatile.

Also I find the Federal match and Hornady match and TAP ammo to work extremely well so I don't get why so many people get so enthusiastic later aobut the black hills. You do not get better groups with this with the black hills and pay more. In any case will shoot very well with any ammo. I even got SUB MOA consistently with cheap hunting loads. Keep in mind this twist of rate is really ideal for 168gr, 175gr and over otherwise you do not need a 1:10 rate but if you want long range you need the heavier longer bullets.

Cheers,
E.
 
Stick to the "20 barrel. You loose a tad speed in .308 with certain loads but they are more accurate and versatile.
Click to expand...
I disagree, barrel length has no correlation with accuracy (though sometimes a short barrel has better repeatability because it has greater stiffness), but velocity drop is a problem if you are trying to reach out to 1k yds. Therefore a long bbl is best (that is what LR competitors use, and for good reason).

:)
 
I disagree.
A shorter bull barrel of the same diameter has a higher tone that it has the potential to positively impact the accuracy. Specially all other things being equal it has the potential to be more accurate since more accuracy nodes can be found in the same barrel with different loads. In plain words the more stiffness, the better. This doesn't mean that a longer barrel cannot be accurate but the same barrel cut down one inch at the time more often than not, it starts closing on the groups. I experienced this myself after cutting down one of my rifles. One could argue if I got lucky but there is a lot of scientific research out there that proves this. This w/o counting the added value of a more compact system and the fact that with most popular loads you are done burning the load at 20".
Again, this is not for 1000 yards competition where there are specific 1 shot systems designed for very specific loads. I am talking about versatile tactical rifles that are some of the most accurate out of the box you can buy.
I think that the San Bernardino SWAT team made a pretty extensive and conclusive test on this idea and they documented that on the web. I will try to find it and send it to you.

Sincerely,
E.
 
E, there is no doubt that a shorter bbl is advantageous to a SWAT team that generally operates at comparitively short engagement ranges, but at 1k yds. I feel that a long bbl has some utility. If you look at the dedicated sniper systems implemented by most militaries you will notice nearly all employ a fairly long barrel (24in. or greater).

:)
 
Just out of curiosity, what effect does barrel length have on velocity? Is there a point of diminishing returns? Any point in a 48" barrel?

Or does the length not have as much impact on the accuracy as the tolerances it was machined to?
 
I agree with you there but I would only sacrifice the versatility vs. speed only if I was to "always" shoot at 1000.
And the military snipers have gone through a logical and necessary evolution too and .308 is no longer the preferred choice for the new scenarios (ie: afganistan).

With that being said the speed difference in .308 win is very little for, again, the average (versatility) loads and one 20 incher can definitively hit the metal or paper pretty well at 1000 yards.
I think that the original post owner stated that the 1000 yards is just to play and not to compete or kill anything that is why I suggested the tac. systems that are extremely accurate at many ranges, specially those that I posted before with very affordable prices for a baseline rifles.
He also expressed the need for the eventual need of hunting (versatility).
There are many long (and heavy) bench rest rifles but we do not want to suggest anyone that this is a good choice for carrying all day. I find the tac systems the perfect balance for all those needs.

I found this article about the cut and test and repeat again procedure. I have done it and hey, it works! I hope you enjoy it....

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

All good advice in this website.

Cheers,
E.
 
When you look at the quality of the barrel itself, the skill of the gunsmith in chambering and installing the barrel, and other factors such as bedding, the difference in accuracy as a result of barrel length is infinitesimal and lost in the noise.

Don
 
When you look at the quality of the barrel itself, the skill of the gunsmith in chambering and installing the barrel, and other factors such as bedding, the difference in accuracy as a result of barrel length is infinitesimal and lost in the noise.
Click to expand...

Which things have the biggest effect on accuracy in order of diminishing returns? (the shooter obviously being at the top, but aside from that)?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Optics for 50-1,000 yard gun?
Replies
6
Views
1K
artherd
A
D
  • Locked
The $1,000 AR15
2 3 4
Replies
85
Views
4K
Walkalong
Walkalong
redneck2
  • Locked
Mounting scope for a 1,000 yard gun
Replies
14
Views
1K
Red_SC
R
T
  • Locked
The Perfect Long Range Rifle
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
lencac
L
5
  • Locked
FCSA 1,000 yard match
Replies
1
Views
404
Zak Smith
Zak Smith
Back
Top