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1-4x scopes for military use

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by JustinJ, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. JustinJ

    JustinJ Well-Known Member

    Do any militaries issue 1-4x variable power scopes to convential or special forces? If no, why not? Are they considred to simply be not durable enough? Would the most modern be durable enough but militaries are have to catch up?
  2. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Well-Known Member

    Talking US military here, and what I know from asking the same question to an infantryman who has seen combat in Iraq during the Gulf War and Operation Iraqi Freedom:

    I believe they are issued, just not very many of them are. Typically, infantry use a fixed power optic, whether that is a 1x aimpoint or eotech, or a 4x ACOG (and others).

    Yes, modern ones are plenty durable, there just is not a high demand with the quality optics that are already fielded.

    Also, a soldier still has to find the right eye relief when looking through a 1x scope unlike a red-dot/holographic sight; so for close-quarters, it is less than ideal.

    Here is a link to the Elcan optic that mshootnit mentioned. It is designed to be used with the M249 and M240, but it is twice as heavy as an ACOG which costs it some practicality points.
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2012
  3. mshootnit

    mshootnit Well-Known Member

    there is an elcan unit that switches power.
  4. happygeek

    happygeek Well-Known Member

    I've had limited use with the 1x/4x Elcan (http://www.botachtactical.com/elcanspecterdr.html). It has a throw lever on the side to switch between 1x & 4x. It has a ACOG style reticle that doesn't need power and a red dot that you can switch on if you so desire.

    The downside is you can't use your irons through it, it's kinda heavy, the eye relief is really short (as in I put my nose over the charging handle when I'm using it on 4x), and it's really expensive, something like $1800. Some like it, and of course the price doesn't matter when it's issued to you. I've never used an ACOG so I can't compare the two, but I like the Elcan.

    They also make a 1.5x/6x model (http://www.google.com/products/cata...1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12371888738401143027#), which is ungodly expensive. I've never even seen that one in person.
  5. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    I've never seen a variable scope on anything other than precision rifles. And those were higher power too.
    Even the ACOG is OK for farther away targets but SUCK at close quarters.
    I was issued both ACOGs and Aimpoints, and always liked the Aimpoints better.
    Never issued an Eotech.
  6. -v-

    -v- Well-Known Member

    I've seen a few Leupold CQ/T's appearing in photos from A-stan from photos as well.
  7. C-grunt

    C-grunt Well-Known Member

    Kyle Defoor has stated he used 1-4 powered scopes when he was a sniper. He also stated he didnt fiddle with the knobs on it and just knew his holdovers.
  8. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    What was his longest shot?
    To be honest...I've never heard of him.
    Who is he?
  9. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    SEAL sniper and trainer, been on a few TV shows
  10. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Well-Known Member

    When I answered I was discounting snipers. Typically in the past they have used fixed power scopes (allowed for mil-ranging to be effective without having to find the correct power), but now with using scopes that have the reticle in the FFP, variable power scopes are being issued.

    That does not come from personal experience, that is what I have heard; so please, correct me if I am wrong.
  11. C-grunt

    C-grunt Well-Known Member

  12. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    I see.

    I hardly ever watch TV.
  13. B!ngo

    B!ngo Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your reply. And your service.
    I always wanted to ask an experienced shooter how they went about aiming at a range so close that 4x was problematic. Or is 4x always viable?
    When I was looking for a 4x scope (for less than an ACOG), it was hard to find one that was fixed at 4x and ended up going with the variable. Not sure it's necessary though.
  14. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    don't blame you. I don't even have cable/satellite. but i read the training announcements often and catch his name/bio every once in a while.

    i shot 3gun type rifle matches with a 4x ACOG for a while. 4x is visible just fine even a few feet away. The problem is, when you look through it at a cardboard ipsc silhouette a few feet away, all you see is brown, so it's hard to tell where on the cardboard you are, and it takes me a second or two to focus and find the A zone sometimes.
  15. JAV8000

    JAV8000 Well-Known Member

    The Elcan was, for the most part, designed to increase the accuracy of suppressive fire from an automatic weapon system. They weigh a ton, are monolithic, and have terrible eye relief. They belong on machine guns and little else. I noticed Canadian troops with them mounted on their M16A4s while deployed in southern Afghanistan.....yikes, no thank you.
  16. happygeek

    happygeek Well-Known Member

  17. -v-

    -v- Well-Known Member

    I think JAV8000 means the M145 versus the SpecterDR. Heard the mounts with the elevation adjustment for them left much wanting.

    Seems the DR is popular with the SOF folks.

    Just for fun, a Acog weighs 9.9 oz 11.1 oz with a pigyback sight to give you both a 4x and 1x option, a SpecterDR 1x/4x weighs in at 20.4ish oz. So, Trijicon still wins, although you now have two sights to contend with.
  18. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Well-Known Member

    Sorry if I came across like I have served, but I have not, and out of respect for those that have I try to make sure that nothing I say can be taken in such a way. The soldier that I have talked with specifically about optics was issued an M4 with an ACOG. His role included clearing houses (as many soldiers in Iraq do), and for close-quarters such as that he was not entirely fond of the 4x ACOG.

    I personally have used an ACOG on an AR-15 that is used to defend livestock and people who go out on our farm from feral dogs. Most of the shots that we make on the dogs are under 50 yards, and the ACOG was just too much for the job.
  19. SabbathWolf

    SabbathWolf member

    The ACOG is pretty sweet if your targets are around 100 meters away or "more."
    But up close, it's extremely S-L-O-W and difficult to use.
    The one I was issued had little iron sights on top of it for closer quarters aiming.
    But...they only work in day light...so completely makes irrelevant having an illuminated optic to begin with.
  20. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Well-Known Member

    Yup, my friend said that he didn't care for them anymore in a CQB environment than he did the magnified optic. He said that if there was a firefight inside of a building, it was more of an instinctive point shooting.

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