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10mm Auto VS .45ACP video

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by brigadier, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. brigadier

    brigadier Well-Known Member

  2. 45_auto

    45_auto Well-Known Member

    Wow, thanks, I know what I want to be carrying if I'm ever attacked by phonebooks!
  3. orionengnr

    orionengnr Well-Known Member

    Dude, do you use an iron lung?
  4. brigadier

    brigadier Well-Known Member

    No, it's just a garbage camera that records all the sounds you don't want to hear and none of the sounds you do.

    That's actually a problem in my life. LOL.
  5. sirsloop

    sirsloop Well-Known Member

    lol... i cant watch that... its all crazy shakey and theres all this heavy breathing!
  6. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Well-Known Member

    Chester the (phone book) molester.:D Thanks for the effort.
  7. Shoobee

    Shoobee member


    Here is a chart that illustrates most handgun cartridges.

    Note that the 10mm auto is almost the same in terms of energy as the 44 rem mag.

    This makes recoil a significant issue.

    Whereas the 45acp is much easier to control. Recoil is a more significant issue in a personal defense weapon against other people.

    Bullet traps that measure depth penetration are fun. I have used stacks of newspapers as well as stacks of phone books.

    If I really really wanted a powerful handgun, I would get the .45-70 revolver:


    However in the meantime my 44 rem mag is more than over-powered for any practical application south of Alaska or Canada.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  8. rswartsell

    rswartsell Well-Known Member

    If you set out to do an "apples to apples" comparison of the two rounds you failed on a lot of levels. I don't mean to be unnecessarily critical but dissemination of disinformation or a superficial understanding of "truth" being presented as definitive is just not acceptable.

    At an early point here, you toss out pressure figures as evidence of which is more "powerful" evidencing a misunderstanding of what is going on "in toto".

    Pressures developed are a function of case capacity, powder burn speed, bullet weight, etc., etc. and ARE NOT a definitive yardstick for comparing "power" or effectiveness for stated purpose of different cartridges or loads.

    Study the debates regarding comparison of .44 mag (high pressure) vs. .45 Colt (lower pressure) for an example.

    If you wish to make "laws of physics" type statements such as which is definitely more "powerful" then I suggest you simplify and lean hard on Newton you will then be able to take mass x velocity and compare "energy".

    You fail to understand the importance of comparing defined quantities. Full house 230 gr reloads is not nearly specific enough. At what velocity?

    Your angle of incidence and assuring same resistance is pitiful. You don't speak to bullet configuration or a myriad of other variables before drawing conclusions.

    I don't want to discourage you and if you have a firm interest, then by all means continue but what you have presented is not conclusive of anything much at all.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  9. brigadier

    brigadier Well-Known Member

    I don't see 10mm in there at all. I see .40S&W but 10mm Auto is hotter then the .40S&W.

    .45ACP does not keep up with the 10mm Auto in terms of speed for weight. Speed for weight, 10mm is almost exactly the same as the hotter .45 Super.

    FWIW, I find having a .45 Converted to .460 Rowland more appetizing then a 10mm, and .45ACP is a much safer round for "around the house" so it's not to say the .45 doesn't have it's edge.
  10. 45_auto

    45_auto Well-Known Member

    It's just below 40 S&W, just above 400 Corbon.

    When are you going to show the experiment where it takes 3 times as long to get 2 A-zone hits at 7 feet (even worse at longer ranges) with a 10mm as opposed to a 45ACP or some other equally controllable caliber?

    Or do you just hope that you can get off a single shot, yell "watch out, I've got a 10mm", and scare all the bad guys away?

    As Shobee pointed out, if phonebook penetration is really the most important thing to you, get a bigger (more powerful) gun.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  11. RickMD

    RickMD Well-Known Member

    Is this supposed to be a joke?
  12. Pyro

    Pyro Well-Known Member

    Luke...I am your father.
  13. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Well-Known Member

    brigadier, I'm not real sure of what your test is supposed to show. Is it your assertion, based on your phonebook test, that the 10mm is a better defensive round? Based on better penetration?

    The way I viewed the results of this little test is that the .45 would be a more effective round, of those used. Even the hardball managed to penetrate the first phonebook, which was dry. If I was trying to kill a phonebook the test would tell me that the .45 accomplished nearly 100% energy transfer to the target, where as the 10mm rounds used over penetrated and expended a large amount of their energy on something other than the intended target.

    Although I am a fan of the 10mm, due to its flexibility, it didn't grow very much in popularity and for pretty good reason. Ballistically, it's power approaches that of a .41 mag, so if you want that kind of power, you could just get a .41 mag and be able to exceed the 10mm.

    From what I remember, the best commercially available defensive rounds for the 10mm were in the 170 to 180gr range of bullets weights. If I remember correctly, this was the ammunition chosen by the FBI when they adopted the 10mm in the form of the Smith 1076 (I believe it was). In the end, they decided that the full house 10mm was just too much and and decided to go with a fed lite load. Shortly thereafter, the .40 S&W was born. The .40 S&W is nothing more than a cut down 10mm case using a small primer pocket. Amazingly enough, the numbers generated by the .40 came pretty darned close to that of the .45 ACP, with the advantage of being able to accommodate a high capacity magazine.

    Is the 10mm better than a .45? I don't think so. It's still a fun round and shoots pretty darned flat. I know that it's easier to bang a 12" gong at 100 yards with a Delta Elite than it is with a .45 gov't model. For me, anyway.
  14. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Well-Known Member

    I love the 10mm, but a .44 Mag it is not. Top .44 loads have considerably more kinetic energy than the 10mm. The mighty 10 is the ballistic twin of the .357 magnum (which stands to reason, given their near-identical operating pressures and casse capacities).

    Real, full-power loads as you would see from 5" automatics and ~6" revolvers are more like:

    9x19mm: 390 ft/lbs
    9x19mm +P: 480 ft/lbs
    .38 Spl: 250 ft/lbs
    .38 Spl. +P: 400 ft/lbs
    .357 Magnum: 750 ft/lbs
    .40 S&W: 550 ft/lbs
    10mm Auto: 780 ft/lbs
    .41 Magnum: 1,050 ft/lbs
    .44 Magnum: 1,300 ft/lbs
    .45 ACP: 420 ft/lbs
    .45 ACP +P: 550 ft/lbs
    .45 Super: 650 ft/lbs
    .45 Colt: 400 ft/lbs
    .45 Colt heavy: 1,200 ft/lbs
    .454 Casull: 1,600 ft/lbs

    Buffalo Bore even has a .44 load that will exceed 1,600, though they're physically too long for me to test in my S&W 629, so you'll have to ask others how the recoil is.

    But 10mm recoil being on par with .44 mag? Not even close. More than the sedate .45 ACP, yes, but not uncontraollable by any stetch. Even my wife shoots the lightweight Glock 20 just fine.
  15. Mainsail

    Mainsail Well-Known Member

    Before you buy another gun...

  16. Bio-Chem

    Bio-Chem Well-Known Member

    the heavy breathing is killing me made it through 4min and gave up :(
  17. willypete

    willypete Well-Known Member

    I know you said you have a .44, but do you reload for it and harvest any game with it? How often do you shoot 10mm?

    700≠1100 is all I'm sayin'...

    As someone pointed out, 10mm is a lot closer to .357 Mag, although 10mm has a leg up in shorter barrels due to greater area.

    .44 mag has a great record on whitetail, black bear, coyote, etc. I certainly wouldn't call it "more than over-powered".
  18. RickMD

    RickMD Well-Known Member

    This is a quote from Frank C. Barnes in his book, Cartridges of the World. "Actual ballistics are generally about 100 fps slower than early factory claims so actual 10mm Automatic factory loads do not significantly exceed 45 Automatic +P ballistics."
  19. flyskater

    flyskater Well-Known Member

    Video reminds me of riding a roller coaster.
  20. brigadier

    brigadier Well-Known Member

    Guys, I would have thought it quite obvious but this video was made for layman and vets alike to give a general and fundamental look at the differences in firepower. If I wanted to be specific about application, I would have been.

    If you want to get in to deep scientific debate, we can go there too. Youtube viewers probably lack the patience and detailed perspective, but here on forum we can go on about this all day.

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