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.223/5.56 overpenetration and HD

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by holdencm9, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Well-Known Member

    Can someone verify for me that .223 penetrates less than your typical 9mm or buckshot through walls. Or point me to some studies. I recall hearing this and seeing pretty convincing evidence. I think something about the 55gr round being "tail-heavy" causing it to tumble.

    The reason for the question is this article


    I have commented and tried to bring some common sense to about a half dozen slate articles (if you can even call them that). The site basically turned into an anti-gun propaganda machine in the weeks after Newtown. It has dissipated, but this article popped up. I am tempted to comment, but will leave it to others who can speak more knowledgeably. Or at least wait for confirmation of what I am saying.

    Aside from aforementioned penetration issue, I also take issue with his cherry-picking one comment that said using AR's encourages "spray and pray" style hunting.

    And I take issue with him saying a "long gun" is difficult to maneuver in close quarters. Ever heard of a carbine?

    Lastly I take issue with the way he cites "paranoid survivalists" as one of the primary demographics that buy AR's. Ugh.

    Sadly, that is the most "neutral" gun article on the site in the past month.
  2. Robert

    Robert Moderator

    Check out The Box of Truth. They have done tons of penetration testing on all kinds or rounds.
  3. Slipknot_Slim

    Slipknot_Slim Well-Known Member

  4. black_powder_Rob

    black_powder_Rob Well-Known Member

    I would also second the boxOtruth
  5. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    US Army uses 9mm sub guns because they penetrate light barriers better then 5.56 carbines in urban assault situations. Ironically the 5.56 penetrates soft body armor better then the 9mm, welcome to the confusing world of terminal ballistics, I would explain all that to you but it would take all night just to get a good start and I have to be at work in the morning :(
  6. Carne Frio

    Carne Frio Well-Known Member

  7. Slipknot_Slim

    Slipknot_Slim Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the link. There's some good information there.
  8. dirtengineer

    dirtengineer Well-Known Member

    What 9mm sub gun does the US Army use?
  9. stubbicatt

    stubbicatt Well-Known Member

    Lord it seems we just did this one. Yet I tune in excitedly hoping to learn something we didn't cover.

    Oh well, good question, good points all. :)
  10. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    United States SOCOM (Special Operations Command) uses the H&K MP5, as do the FBI and Secret Service.
  11. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

  12. hentown

    hentown Well-Known Member

    I own both shotguns and ARs. Prefer to use a G17 with light attached for my nightstand piece. Plan to add a suppressor as soon as I can get the Form 4 approved. Got a threaded barrel on order from LWD.

    I just feel real comfortable with 18 rounds of modern hollow points inside my house.
  13. MTMilitiaman

    MTMilitiaman Well-Known Member

  14. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Well-Known Member

    Yeah thanks guys! I knew I could probably find the info if I searched a little bit, but also specifically wanted those links that were shared, and also I wanted to share the link the article just so if there were any brave souls who wanted to venture over there and shed some light on the issue directly. I was going to comment but my computer did not like the "authentication certificate" of that website, so I let it be. Fortunately there were a handful of gun owners who did their best to correct the ignorance of the article. Thanks again!
  15. Eleanor416Rigby

    Eleanor416Rigby Well-Known Member

    Penetration depends very heavily on bullet construction. Both 9mm and .223/5.56 loaded with anything but bullets designed not to penetrate will fly through sheetrock walls with enough force to do serious bodily injury on the other side. I haven't tried buckshot or read about it, but I suspect it would as well. Frangibles or bird shot would be my answer to overpenetration.
  16. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Well-Known Member

    M193 bullet designs and many others (although not all) will fragment in soft tissue, so if you hit your target, it should penetrate less than many handgun and 00 Buck loads.
  17. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

  18. holdencm9

    holdencm9 Well-Known Member

    Thanks again. Here is what I posted. I already know that I won't dissuade anybody firmly on the other side of the fence, but hopefully there are some fence-sitters that I can enlighten.

    It's funny to me that these articles and comments always sound the same.

    "Sure, you could use the AR platform for X, Y, Z, but it is not ideal. There are better things out there. Therefore it is unnecessary."

    Well of course there are better options! There always is. The nice thing about the AR is not that it is the BEST at any ONE thing, but the fact that it is very very good at a LOT of different things. He even points this out in the article.

    Also, almost any 55gr .223/5.56 bullet will penetrate LESS through interior partition walls than 9mm JHP or 12-ga buckshot, and a 16" carbine is shorter than most shotguns, making it easier than shotguns to maneuver indoors, but also easier than handguns to aim effectively.


    I don't really see anything that can be argued there, but there certainly will be someone who has to chime in. Now the key is to leave and never look again, and avoid getting sucked into an emotionally-driven, un-winnable debate.
  19. Sandshooter

    Sandshooter Member

    No sub guns...Sub-sonic ammo is never used in an M-9, because there isn't enough pressure to cycle the system to chamber the next round. Suppressors are only used on side arms if the mission calls for it (VERY RARE). Spec Op's uses suppressed and unsuppressed MP-5's, but full loads to allow the weapon to cycle properly in full auto, 3 round or semi auto modes. You can bet there are are new platforms out there, but a long way from being seen!
  20. ironworkerwill

    ironworkerwill Well-Known Member

    bullet construction, diameter, weight and velocity all play a factor in penetration. a barnes bullet in a 5.56 will go deeper than a soft point and a soft point deeper than a bullet composed of compressed powdered tin in a light jacket and ect. similar construction and weight being a value the smaller diameter projectile will penetrate deeper. then all things being equal hyper velocity bullets self destruct faster than lower velocity bullets. see laws of hydrodynamics( or aerodynamics for that matter) the faster an object travels though a liquid the more resistance said object will meet.

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