243, 270, 30-06, 7mm

[ojibweindian]

When you say 7mm, is that the 7mm Mauser, 7mm-08, or the 7mm Mag?

I wouldn't let my son shoot my full house 7mm Mag loads, and he's a good 50lbs heavier than your brother.

 

[cox3497]

Shawn,

First off, good on you for thinking of your little brother. I remember flipping through countless gun magazines (albeit hopelessly) back when I was younger wishing somehow to be able to afford a nice hunting rifle.

My recommendation to you, sir, is that you take a HARD look at the the blued/walnut Ruger Model 77. This is a finely crafted rifle that will stand up to years of use. Not only that, but it inspires pride-of-ownership and bears the classic lines of fine American rifles. I realize your budget it tight, but since you can only afford to buy this once, and I'm sure you desire to achieve the greatest bang for your buck, you cannot go wrong with this rifle. I've seen them for less than $450 brand new at local stores (the ones with better prices). If you compare this rifle to the cheaper Savage/Stevens lines in person, you will note a huge perceived quality difference. While the Savage and Stevens are good guns indeed, they are more cheaply furnished (stocks and bluing especially) and not in the same class in this regard.

Because your brother will likely be using this rifle for years to come with hopefully many hours afield, I heartily recommend you take this small step up in price to gain this significant leap in quality. If you do, it will likely become something that he will treasure for years.

As far as the caliber, noting your brother's young age, I would recommend you purchase that .243 and ensure that he practices extensively with it before going afield. The beauty of the .243 is that it allows the ability to ensure correct shot-placement with young/inexperienced shooters due to the low recoil. As long as the shots are well-placed (as with any rifle), the .243 has plenty of power for the game here at hand.

As far as scopes go (to keep the rifle in your price range), I would recommend you take a look at the Burris Fullfield II. I've seen that one for as cheap as $150-170 around the web somewhere.

Best of luck with whatever you choose, and way to go bringing another young man to the realization of the great sport we have.

cox3497

 

[Shawn 357]

7mm-08
but
I have never shot 7mm anything so I honestly don't have the slightest idea how they are.

This thread has me leaning towards 243 because he will be able to take down just about anything we go hunting for and if I take him elk hunting I can borrow a rifle from a friend for my brother to shoot.

Thanks

 

[ojibweindian]

7mm-08 is okay

And with the 7mm-08, he wouldn't have to borrow another rifle for elk.

 

[highlander 5]

as far as rifles go Ruger m77 MKII in SS comes with scope rings,$20-$50 savings right there. Trigger pull is fair but easily fixed. Caliber 243 or one that most don't consider and I believe Ruger chambers 250 Savage. Clay Harvey wrote a book on various rifle cartridges if you can find a copy it's a good read with the pros and cons of the different cartridges for varmint,deer and heavy game.

 

[Steve H]

Another one to cnsider

Hve you looked at the .280? It's 7mm dia. and uses the same case as the 30-'06, .270 & the 25-'06. The 7mm has a great selection of bullets if you reload and the case gives you enough power for the majority of big game in North America.

 

[Shawn 357]

I'm going to check out some ammo prices and go from there. I just had someone give me a reloading set up but I haven't set it up yet (I'm in the middle of rebuilding my garage) so I want to plan on me not reloading for now. I appreciate everyones input on this. I can't wait to get him a rifle for him to learn with and make some very fond memories with.

Thanks everybody!

 

[atblis]

How about?

6.5x55
Factory loads are already mild. Has much more potential on heavier game than 243.

Is chambered in some nice rifles (CZ550 for instance).

 

[mrrick]

7X57 (7mm Mauser)
Light recoil,good bullet selection, good Ballistic coefficient, and sectional density.
Has taken every game animal on the planet (in proper hands, but can do it).

 

[defiant73a]

I recommended the .243 early on and stand by it, but I'm not so sure I'd be as concerned about .30-06 recoil as you are because recoil is so subjective. My eight year old has started shooting my old sporterized .303 Brit. He loves it and shoots it very well.

I was really hesitant about letting him shoot it because of the recoil and fear of him developing a flinch, but his curiosity and desire had reached the point where I felt it was in his (and my) best interest to let him try it (the whole forbidden fruit thing--and firm belief honesty is the best policy when it comes to kids and guns). Long story short, I correctly positioned him, checked to make sure he was leaning into it and holding it right, and let him shoot it. He hit the targed and loved it. When I asked him the recoil, he said it was felt like a big push and was fun. Go figure. (Any contributions to the ammo fund will be welcomed! )

 

[rich e]

I agree with Lonestar 45...Get your brother a 270..Too add to Lonestars post..The 270 is more forgiving in the field..It flat out performs the 243 on deer sized game..If your brother ever gets the chance to shoot at a record, monster buck at long range,the 270 will get the job done..I think the 243 is an EXCELLANT varmit rifle...I have a 30.06 and a 270 and the 270 has less recoil...Although I shot the 30.06 when I was 13 and 100 lbs soaking wet and LOVED it....I say 270..........or..............30.06

 

[Shawn 357]

I am going to have him shoot a 308, 30-06, 270, etc. and see if he has any issues with recoil. The first gun that I put lots of rounds through when I wasn't much bigger than him was a 30-06 and I never noticed recoil (maybe I didn't know any better). I am going to have him fire all of them while I watch to see how he does. I honestly don't think a 30-06 has much recoil but I see everyone on the internet acting like it's a big cartridge.

I appreciate everyones input.

 

[thatsit]

Yah..the .243 is one of the best rifles for a new shooter......anything under 90gr for varmint..and 90 and over for bigger game..deer and stuff....I like my Sako forrester...very nice......or you can go with a 22-250..those are fun. Good luck.

 

[jeepmor]

I vote for the 270

Good cartridge, easy to find like 30-06 when out in BFE. Maybe not the case with others. Maybe a moot point, but worth mentioning.

You might look on online websites for sporterized Mausers in caliber of your choice. I just picked up a 270 mauser for my wife and only paid $200 delivered. But admittedly, I found it here on THR.

It printed two shots within 3/4" of each other at 100 yards during site in. It started raining and cut us short, but I'm now a fan of the 270 and this bargain basement mauser. It is much more gun than I paid for.

I'd set your budget, have a list of calibers to choose from, and go shopping. I say choose more than one caliber simply so you can be more flexible in your purchase. I shot a 308 at that age with a simple recoil pad and it worked fine for me. And yes, I was only about 100lbs +change when wet at the time.

In regards to recoil, just have him shoot a 300WinMag or the like, anything else on your list will feel tame after that. Sometimes this approach puts it in perspective for newbs.

jeepmor

 

[salty]

Not sure how this is going to work out if you don't have money to buy him a rifle - try a used 30:30 Marlin 336 or a new NEF .243 - low initial cost, safety, low cost ammo and versatility. He can move to a bolt action later.

 

[jstpush]

I can't believe this, no .308?

I've read all the posts in this thread and I can't believe that no one has really approached the .308! Probably one of the most proven calibers in the world, with a less sharp recoil than any of the listed calibers, and better knockdown then the .243 and .270.

My 11 year old twins would rather shoot my .308 than their mom's .243 any day. I don't even like shooting the .243 because of the sharpness of the recoil.

Proper shooting technique is a must, shouldering, grip and overall rest position will not only manage recoil, but improve accuracy.

Depending on what you want to spend, there are several options as far a rifles. The Savage/Stevens is an adequate bolt gun, as well as being reaonably priced. For shear economy and flexibility, the New England Firearms single shot rifles/shotguns are great. For my kids, I've got several stock lengths along with 20 and 12 gauge barrels, .17HMR, .22 LR, .223 and .308 rifle barrels. I think my total investment on all recievers/barrels and stocks is less than $700, a lot cheaper than buying a Thompson/Center Contender system.

Save you money on the rifle and spend your money on the optics. A decent scope is something that can be kept and moved to a newer/better rifle once the 'starter' rifle has served it's purpose.

Thanks for taking care of your little brother and starting him off with the responsibility and priveledge that our sport requires and grants us all. The kids that I see today, that have had a family member spend the time with them at the range and in the field, are better equipped to handle themselves.

Keep it up.

 

[atblis]

Truthfully

I think a lot recoil is perceived. "Sharpness" is most likely due to noise/blast rather than actual recoil, especially if you think a 243 recoils more than a 308. Make sure you have him wearing good earplugs, and good muffs, that is both at the same time. That will go a long way towards reducing recoil.

 

[USAFNoDAk]

The other thing to consider is the rifle itself, regardless of the caliber. The heavier the rifle, the less the recoil. I have a Model 70 in .270 (24 inch barrel) with a recoil pad. That's a heavy gun and doesn't recoil all that much. I also own a Remington 700 Mountain, also in .270 with a 22 inch barrel and a recoil pad. It's quite a bit lighter than my Model 70 and thus has more noticeable recoil.

Since 7mm-08 is .308 necked down to a smaller bullet (7mm), they can use less powder to get the desireable velocity. Thus, you can go to a fairly light rifle without increasing the recoil too much. For a smaller person, such as a youth, a lighter rifle is easier to carry, climb into deer stands with, and handle in general.

I know, just more mud to cloudy your waters, but these issues should also be considered.

.243 is also .308 necked down to 24 caliber, in case you were unaware. Thus, in theory, assuming factory ammo, there shouldn't be that much difference in .243 and 7mm-08 with regards to recoil. As another poster said previously, the shooter has a little more margin for error with the larger caliber (7mm) than with .243. That's not to say the .243 can't be effective on deer. My dad has always used that caliber, but he's a pretty sharp shooter (Marine Expert Rifleman).

Also consider the typical ranges the shots will be taken at.

 

[Lupinus]

I vote for .270

Its very managable and though it has kick it isn't terrible. I have a bad shoulder so I was seriosuly considering the .243 over the .270win, I went with the .270 and am glad I did.

If he is still a bit small you can get remington managed recoil loads or load your own that will bring the recoil down as low if not lower then a .243. And as he gets a little older and bigger and able to handle a bit more recoil he can move onto full power loads.

.243 will do the job on deer, but .270 will offer more oppertunity later on for more things.

 

[Critter183]

(Any contributions to the ammo fund will be welcomed! )

Is he shooting you out of house and home now?

I'll donate a couple of bandoleers of surplus .303. I think it may be corrosive though so clean promptly and well.

 

[earlthepearl]

.243 is a great gun to start off with.
Good for game up to deer.
I have killed bear with mine.
Lots of fun to shot without the recoil.
Ammo is plenty cheep enough...walmart super X.
I use the NEF single shot with a 4-16 power scope.
17 coyotes last year,mostly during winter with an electronic call, groundhogs in spring, Deer in fall & coyotes. Coyotes all winter here in Maine, no closed season on them.

 

[kasTX]

Some good suggestions so far. Given that your brother is young and not yet a shooter, he will need to practice, and for that you will need to find ammo that is cheap and readily available. 30-30 fits the bill well here, as it is great for deer and hogs, and can be found cheap: typically $8.99/box for Rem or Win, and under $6.00 for Monarch. Recoil is not outlandish, and there are tons of used lever actions out there that can be had for reasonable prices.

As for rifles, the Handi Rifle makes a lot of sense. Some people recommend single shots for new shooters both to teach discipline and for safety. The Handi Rifles can be had new for less than $200 for basic models, leaving you plenty of change for good optics and ammo.

Yet another option is something in 22LR. Granted, it wouldn't be appropriate for deer and hogs, but it is perfect for learning to shoot, and perfect for learning the basics of hunting by going after smaller game like rabbits and squirrel. When it comes time to hunt larger game, he can borrow the rifle of the adult he is hunting with. Another point in favor of the 22 is its versatility, and with versatility comes longevity - if you give him a really good one (a CZ would be a great choice, and they can be had for around $300 in walnut) he will have it for life, and likely teach his kids to shoot with it, before handing it down to them.

Just a few thoughts. Hope it helps. Be sure to let us know what you end up with and what he thought of the various guns he got to try out.

 

[NateG]

If he gets a chance to try out a .243/.270/.30-06/.308/7mm08/whatever, then go with what he likes. He may actually like a full load .30-06, stranger things have happened. However, if he doesn't get a chance to actually shoot the chambering you're going with, then err on the small side and get a .243. He may find the recoil of one of the bigger ones manageable, and if so, go for it. It'll be a little more forgiving of a less-than-ideal deer shot. However, too much recoil is definitely a bad thing. Or, save a few bucks on the centerfire you choose, and buy a used .22 as well. Lots of ones available used for well under $100. In that case you could go a little bit heavier--something he can still shoot well, but maybe more than he wants to shoot all day--that's what the .22 would be for.

Anyway, it's better to err on the small side. A .243's good enough for deer--and a well placed .243" hole will be a lot better than a miss or a grazing shot with a .30-06 because he flinched or didn't practice enough.

Have fun! I wish my brother was buying me a gun when I was 13--of course, he would have been 10 at the time...

 

[WolfMansDad]

Love my 7mm-08

I've shot many rifles in my life, and I haven't found one I like better than the 7mm-08. Recoil is very mild, but the round is potent enough for any game you want to go after. (Ballistics are essentially identical to the old 7x57mm mauser, which has been used to take everything up to elephant.)

Ammo is readily available in some parts of the country, but hard to find in others. You can always mail order (www.outdoorsuperstore.com). He may even want to get into reloading. I did, when I was a teenager.

7mm-08 is easy to shoot accurately, and powerful enough that he won't outgrow it. With a .243, he will almost certainly want to get a more powerful rifle in a few years.

I weighed about 85 pounds when I was 12 and owned a few firearms. Had no trouble with a 12 gauge shotgun, but I HATED my .30-06 for its recoil.

 

[md7]

I was 14 years old and about 115 lbs when i got my hunting rifle. it was a .270 win. It had some kick to it for someone my size, but 11 years later, that is still the rifle I hunt with and it does all that I want it to do. If that rifle had been a .243 (my wife's rifle is a .243) I would be in the market for another rifle right now.NOT Knocking the .243, I just really like my .270. My advice is this, get him a .270, use some of the recoil managing rounds that are available so it doesn't kick as bad, and when your brother gets older and bigger, he will still have a very capable round to hunt with. Just my .02. Let us know what you decide on.