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25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Desertdog, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. Desertdog

    Desertdog Well-Known Member

    And the anti gunners blame the guns. I don't think so, and this is proof.

    25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'
    Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents
    Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall

    As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

    In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

    The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

    Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

    By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More significantly, perhaps, the city's crime rate increased by 15.7 percent immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township's crime rate stands at 2,268 per 100,000.

    This was not what some predicted.

    In a column titled "Gun Town USA," Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as "the brave little city … soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world." Phil Donahue invited the mayor on his show.

    Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

    Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: "When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area." Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

    The Reuters story went on to report: "Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer."

    Virginia Tech, like many of the nation's schools and college campuses, is a so-called "gun-free zone," which Second Amendment supporters say invites gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as many victims as possible.

    Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on himself.
  2. jad0110

    jad0110 Well-Known Member

    My email. Perhaps not perfect, but I tried to provide an explanation in simple terms :rolleyes: :

  3. ptmmatssc

    ptmmatssc Well-Known Member

  4. dasmi

    dasmi Well-Known Member

    Way to go Kennesaw.
  5. dubious

    dubious Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's pretty cool! I'm definitely intrigued. This has the potential to become a keystone in the 2A debate.

    If I were to explain this to any of my friends who feel trepidation about the 2A, they would definitely want to take a closer look at these statistics. So do I. I live in a city of about 50,000 and there are about 3 murders a year... I'm not sure how many are due to firearms.

    I'm going to do some more research on this, but maybe you can all help me. Maybe you can answer some of my questions, and maybe you can come up with some questions of your own. The more we flush out the details, the more effective this is to our debate. My friends are pretty smart bastards, so I better be well equipped to argue with them. :rolleyes:

    Some questions that come to mind are:

    1) What are the larger trends in gun Violence in the Nation and in the States of Georgia (Kennesaw) and Illinois (Morton Grove). What were the trends in those counties and surrounding counties? Do those trends indicate that Kennesaw is an island of peace due to its firearms requirements?

    2) What are the levels of poverty, literacy, and sheer desperation in Kennesaw and Morton Grove? A quick glance at wikipedia tells me that they both have similar median incomes in the 2000 census... apparantly Kennesaw is slightly poorer with a 60k average income vs. Morton Groves 63k average income (both pretty darn high). That indicates that Kennesaw should have a slightly higher crime rate. The racial makeup is also fairly similar, not that I believe in racial profiling.

    3) What are the crime levels of areas neighboring these towns? Is Morton Groves a rich town surrounded by poor, high crime towns? Do criminals target Morton Grove and not Kennesaw for other reasons besides gun ownership?

    That should be plenty for you all to stew on... please post any other questions or answers that you can think of.
  6. GTSteve03

    GTSteve03 Well-Known Member

    Born and raised in Kennesaw. What a great little (well, not so little anymore!) town. :)

    I don't live there anymore, but that's cause of traffic in the Atlanta area. Too many damn Yankees moving down here and clogging the roads. :mad:

    dubious, to answer partly your 3rd question, Marietta is a large town nearby to Kennesaw. There is quite a high crime rate in that area, partly due to lower median income I believe, but I don't think a lot of that crime spills over to Kennesaw. Perhaps the criminals there know better than to hang around "Guntown" too much.
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  7. dubious

    dubious Well-Known Member

    I'd really like to get some more answers to all of this. If you think about it, cities are complex systems... perhaps even organisms. There are a lot of details to think about, but if we can just flush out the larger details, I think we can make a REALLY convincing argument here...BUMP!
  8. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Well-Known Member

    Wow, that's pretty cool! I'm definitely intrigued. This has the potential to become a keystone in the 2A debate

    I'm a supporter of the RKBA but I think you'd find a lot of towns of 5200 population that haven't had a murder in 25 years. A better example would be Philadelphia which is a larger city, in a state with decent gun laws having a murder rate that puts it about 25 in the country across the river from Camden being #1 in homicides in a state with some of the most strict gun laws.

    There has been an increase in homicides in Philadelphia recently but I think the truth will show that's being caused by overflow from Camden. Philly could probably lower it's crime rate by closing the Ben Farnklin Bridge.
  9. Fulcrum of Evil

    Fulcrum of Evil Well-Known Member

    The last study I read on the subject concluded that gun control/guns for just about everybody had little effect on crime; the major factors are upbringing and economic opportunity.

    Of course, if I have a gun, then the criminals that _do_ exist will have a harder time with me, so why not?
  10. thexrayboy

    thexrayboy Well-Known Member

    There is no 2A debate and such a "debate" between those who uphold it's intent and those who think that the 2A is toilet paper cannot occur. The reason for this is that a debate requires logic, rational thought and composure. The antis scream at the top of the lungs how evil guns are, how dangerous the country is because guns exist and that we should ban them all.... " do it for the children". Then when a proponent of 2A rights attempts to state the facts supporting the rights to arms, the antis throw a temper tantrum, they start shouting, arguing and interrupting any and all who attempt to state rational facts. They all but stick their thumbs in their ears and waggle their fingers going LAH LAH LAH LAH LAH so they can't hear
    the facts.

    Debate can only exist in the realm of reality. The antis live in a fantasy world ruled by emotion, warm fuzzies and wishful thinking. They are the perfect tools for the socialist power structure that uses them in the effort to destroy our rights and enslave self sufficient citizens.
  11. DJAteOhAte

    DJAteOhAte Well-Known Member

    Why doesnt anyone mention Kennesaw's preempted and unenforceable GUN BAN in their city parks?
  12. jerkyman45

    jerkyman45 Well-Known Member

    25 years murder free in a town with a population approaching 27,000 is quite something, and it has a lower crime rate then Morton Grove, a town with a lower population. I think this is just more concrete evidence that we as pro RKBA people have whereas the antis counter our logical arguments with rederick and misguided opinion. Kennesaw proves to us what we already know, and flies in the face of the antis that are convinced that inanimate objects somehow cause crime.
  13. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Well-Known Member

    I'm looking at a couple jobs at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport. How far is Kennesaw from Atlanta?
  14. zero_chances

    zero_chances Well-Known Member

    YAY FOR MY TOWN, Kennesaw is a great place:)

    About 25 or 30 miles/45-50 minutes.

    Ummm.. What? I have yet to hear this, can you please explain?
  15. tulsamal

    tulsamal Well-Known Member

    You must have missed the new numbers at the end of this quote:


    So this isn't some little sleepy rural town of 5000 where the median age is 75. It is in the Atlanta metro area and the population is approaching 30,000. No murders in a town of that size is noteworthy.

  16. zero_chances

    zero_chances Well-Known Member

    This not a small rural town at all. There is nearly 4,000 kids in my highschool, and there are several highschools here. The population has been rapidly growing the last couple of years, so the numbers are much higher than the 2005 statistics.
  17. armed85

    armed85 Well-Known Member

    I used to live near Kennesaw before I enlisted. A "sleepy rural town" it is not. You've obviously never visited the city. You can sit in a traffic jam for over an hour driving through Kennesaw. Traffic jams are the norm.
  18. zero_chances

    zero_chances Well-Known Member

    When did you live here, its gotten really, really bad in the last year. 41 (cobb parkway) is turning into another barret parkway.
  19. tecrsq

    tecrsq Active Member

    Was born and raised in Cobb County "Marietta" and can say Kennesaw is a great city to live in or around.

    Has grown incredibly since the 70's and the growth pace is pretty much like the bedroom communities of Atlanta that surround it.

    I live in Cherokee Co. now and just today drove through my old stomping grounds in Kennesaw, as usual traffic was bad and everyone was out doing the Mothers day routine.

    Still its a safe place to live, the community takes pride in taking care of itself and neighbors still help each other out.
  20. GoSlash27

    GoSlash27 member

    Has this story been picked up anywhere other than WND?

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