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2A is archaic

Discussion in 'Legal' started by 69Chevy, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. 69Chevy

    69Chevy Well-Known Member

    I was having a debate with a friend the other day. He leans left on issues, and often without giving a lot of though to the situation (IE: whats wrong with illegal immigrants? let them all in). Yet he likes guns? He said he has no problem with democrats placing restrictions on the types of guns we can own. Such as assualt weapons, he says, you don't need them. I explained that the second amendment was a safe guard against the government and we are entitled to the weapons that the common soldier gets to use, and he said it is archaic. He then says it doesn't matter if the population is armed, that if the government really wanted to use the army to round up civilians for whatever purpose, that they could easily do it and being armed isn't going to make a difference. I pointed out in the revolution and again in vietnam, a determined armed indegenious population can and will put up a fight. He then says that the vietnamese were supplied with arms(like that makes any difference, point is they had them). I think he is an idiot, and I stayed calm, while he got extremely upset, which made me laugh. Then I went to shoot my evil assualt rifle.

    Focus: How is the 2A not archaic and still applicable to today?
  2. longeyes

    longeyes member

    He's right. The 2A is "archaic." So are all the other Amendments. Who needs the Democrats? Sauve qui peut.:evil:
  3. Rev. DeadCorpse

    Rev. DeadCorpse Well-Known Member

    Criminals still exist.
    Governments still oppress their people.
    Still game to hunt.
    It's fun.

  4. longeyes

    longeyes member

    How old is this genius?
  5. 69Chevy

    69Chevy Well-Known Member

    23 years old. We went to a gun store the other day and he immediately fell in love with the old mil surps and was about to buy one. Still probably does want too. Maybe he can be saved, who knows...
  6. DRMMR02

    DRMMR02 member

    The problem is, at least to me, that it's really hard bringing up the "governments oppress their people" argument without sounding like a Bubba. It's true of course, but it's hard to argue, especially online, without immediately sound like some paranoid anarchist.
  7. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Well-Known Member

    Just tell him that that mil-surp is and "Evil Assault Rifle" (which it is) and he doesn't need it. Then show him a H&R single-shot break-action and tell him that is all he needs.:p

    I think that might sink in after a few minutes thought.
  8. Steve499

    Steve499 Well-Known Member

    The right to freedom and to defend yourself is much more archaic than any restriction any government ever has/will place on the means to do it. Governments can pass laws but they can't change a basic human right by legislation. The 2nd amendment was included to recognize a right that pre-existed it by hundreds of thousands of years. Now THATS archaic!

  9. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Well-Known Member

    To many (even in our own government) the entire Constitution is "archaic".

    They can't mold the world (and the US) into what they want with that pesky Constitution which keeps reaffirming our rights as individuals, property owners and "citizen soldiers".

    Free speech is archaic because it allows "hateful" Christians to openly state they believe X is a sin and Y is wrong. And the bloggers to question the "authorities" in the MSM.

    Gun rights are archaic because the police are there to protect us and "civilized" people don't do their own fighting.

    Property rights are archaic because it allows those who own property to do what they want with it (even if the Sierra Club doesn't like it) and it keeps those who don't own property from able to go anywhere they want at any time or using resources they don't pay for.

    States rights are archaic because it keeps the visions of the anointed from trickling down to the local level (those bureaucrats in Washington know whats best for you).

    Freedom of association is archaic because it allows people to chose not to accept [insert specially protected subgroup] in their club/business/home/etc.

    Gun rights is just the tip of the iceberg.
  10. kfranz

    kfranz Well-Known Member

    I've found that this is usually the argument that you can bring them around on most easily. Just start listing the little things that he has but doesn't need, at least as far as you are concerned.
  11. Juna

    Juna Well-Known Member

    The 2nd Amendment is only "archaic" in terms of the date it was written. But the Bill of Rights and all the Constitutional Amendments that we use as the framework of our great nation should never be considered "archaic". That's what makes this the most free nation in the world.

    What happens if we let people start telling us that Amendments are "archaic"? Well, then what's next? The first amendment is archaic, the fourth, the fifth, etc. The reason all of these basic rights (notice I said RIGHTS, not priviledges) were explicitly written down by the founding fathers of this country is that they viewed those as inalienable rights (forever--with no expiration date) that were infringed upon by the British government, which is why they revolted. They foresaw what has happened in this country, which is people trying to whittle away our rights until we're "under control". That's what they were trying to guard against.

    Many people in this country seem to be on this "we wanna be like Europe" thing. The entire point of our nation's existence is to be free, not be shackled with no rights like the Europeans. The government is supposed to be for, of, and by the people, not vice versa. The government is supposed to serve us, not control us.

    The problem lies in the fact that what is broadcast (media, movie stars, Hollywood, etc.) is markedly liberal. It's "cool" to be against guns because guns cause violence and b/c George Clooney and Oprah say so, right? Wrong. Guns are inanimate objects. Knives, fists, and baseball bats are no less capable of being used to inflict violence than guns. It all depends on the user. Hell, cars are more likely to cause violence. What happens is kids grow up idolizing celebrities, and the vast, vast, vast majority of celebrities are non-patriotic liberals who want to be Europeans b/c they think it's "cool". Well, IMO, they can go move there.

    So, no, none of the Amendments should be considered "archaic". Remember, the government is supposed to serve and fear the people, not vice versa. Think about that, and you can see how off our society has become. Think about Hurricane Katrina and the video of the cops & military systematically disarming old ladies trying to defend their homes. Ask your friend if it's still archaic.
  12. EddieCoyle

    EddieCoyle Well-Known Member

    I have an "anti" friend that asked me, "Why do you need so many guns?"
    I replied, "Why do you need so many golf clubs?

    When he started to answer, I cut him off and said, "I have guns for the same reason."
  13. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Well-Known Member

    The truely sad aspect (to me at least) is the idea that the government is more like an overbearing mother than anything else. It would be very nice if you could simply and nicely say "Dear mother, I appreciate that you are trying to look out for me but I am all grown up now and would like to take care of myself".

    Unfortunately, many governments (at this point in time) are more like Cathy Bates in "The Water Boy".
  14. 69Chevy

    69Chevy Well-Known Member

    I told him he didn't need his TV. He cited entertainment. I said that shooting an "assualt" rifle was entertainment to me. Yet it doesn't sink.
  15. DRMMR02

    DRMMR02 member

    The standard anti response is. "TV's aren't designed to kill people"
  16. Juna

    Juna Well-Known Member

    This is the one I hear all the time from my co-workers. I bring up all sorts of things we don't need. I don't need a Ferrari. I could drive a Yugo. Maybe the government should ban all cars larger or faster than a Yugo. Heck, I don't even need a car, and cars kill more people each year than airplanes or guns. Maybe cars should be banned, altogether.

    I don't need a house. I could live in a one bedroom apartment. It would take up less space and cost less.
  17. longeyes

    longeyes member

    remember the titans

    Paranoid anarchist? You got a problem with that?

    Archaic? Old is beautiful. Trust me, I know from personal experience. Yes, the Founding Fathers are not new and hip. They can't rap for ****. Their clothes look funny and their sentences are too long. All true. But, damn, we miss their CLARITY, do we ever.

    Meanwhile, the Chinese have KillMobiles circulating around. How long before they come to Wal-mart?
  18. orangelo

    orangelo member

    Ask him if he thinks the rest of the bill of rights written at the same time by the same authors with the same verbiage is archiac.

    If he says "yes" shoot him in the crotch so he won't reproduce and taint the gene pool any more than he already has.
  19. cbsbyte

    cbsbyte Well-Known Member

    Good god, I know the type. It is very hard to argue with people who are gun owners and controdict themselves by not support the RKBA. They are deeply confused people, and much harder to understand than a straight Anti-gunner. I had an argument awhile back with a blue collar hippy type, who is an avid hunter, and gun owner but he supports strict gun control, leftist politics, and the most Liberal anti-gun Democrats. He also had a strong belief that in the long run, it did not matter who he voted for since one day all our gun where going to be taken away, and their was nothing we could do about it. He did believe that the 2nd Ad did gurantee our rights, but that it no longer applied in today's society.
  20. Steve499

    Steve499 Well-Known Member

    He has a right to his T.V.! It's all he may have to aid him in his pursuit for happiness. You, on the other hand have GUNS, which not only help you chase happiness into a catchable corner, but also help you out in the life and liberty areas as well!


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