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.30-06 M2 Ball on Deer?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by sithanas, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. sithanas

    sithanas Well-Known Member

    I'm planning on purchasing a CMP Garand as well as a case of surplus M2 Ball ammunition. Is this ammo deer-usable, or should I invest in a couple boxes of commercial ammo for hunting?
  2. dakotasin

    dakotasin Well-Known Member

    fmj on deer is unethical at best, and probably illegal. buy some soft points for deer-whacking.
  3. 'Card

    'Card Well-Known Member

    It's not the latest, greatest, hottest, hardest, or fastest, but it'll do just fine for deer.
  4. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Well-Known Member

    I know that my state requires "expanding bullets" for any kind of single-projectile hunting.

    That means soft points, hollow points, NBT's, Accu-tips, LEVERlution, lead bullets, pretty much anything EXCEPT ball ammo, which is FMJ.

    Check your state's web site for laws (Natural Resources Dept., Fish and Game, Game and Fish, or whatever they call it in MI). I don't believe any US state's hunting laws allow the use of FMJ ammo, but even if the law is silent on bullet type, it's not considered an ethical way to take game. FMJ ammo tends to wound, not drop, an animal, including a human animal.


    Note also that the southern half of Michigan's lower peninsula doesn't allow rifles for deer hunting at all, apparently.

    Didn't they cover this stuff in Hunter Safety?
  5. 'Card

    'Card Well-Known Member

    None of the three states that I hunt in on a regular basis seem to have any prohibitions at all against FMJ ammo from a centerfire rifle (just checked) and to be honest it had never occurred to me that some states would bother regulating that sort of thing - but I guess it's always a good idea to say "...check your local laws first!" :)
  6. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Well-Known Member

    I see you're in Michigan, so check your Michigan hunting regs for legality. But for ethical issues, for the M1, I recommend handloading some Hornady 150gr spitzer type SP's which come as flat base or boat tail. My recommendation from my own shooting with my own M1 is to load that bullet over 42-50grs of IMR 4895 so it'll run anywhere from 2400fps on the low end up to 2900 or so max. But check the Hornady 5th Edition manual before you do that and realize that they have a section for .30-06 in general and a section for the M1 in particular and also realize that the numbers DO cross up between those two sections. (The only real reason I see the manual having a separate section for the M1 is match loads.) But as far as using FMJ on a deer, I wouldn't unless it was an all out case of having to.

    One mention was of using a cast lead bullet, which ain't supposed to work in a Garand, but it'd work in a '03 or 1917. Thing about that is there seems to be some grey area in the Georgia regs as to what an expanding bullet is. It seems that except during muzzleloader season lead bullets appear to be frowned on at best. I'll have to do some checking around on that.
  7. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Well-Known Member

    Unethical in my opinion, and illegal in Oregon:

    From the 2006 Oregon Big Game regulations
  8. ID_shooting

    ID_shooting Well-Known Member

    Sure, they will work, if you dont mind making .30 holes in one side and right out the other and then chasing your deer for three counties, LOL

    MFJ is great for range work but terrible for hunting. A bullet doesnt have to be the latest, greatest, whiz-bang design, but a good hunting bullet is hard to beat for well, hunting.
  9. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Well-Known Member

    From what I can see on the MI web site, MI does not prohibit FMJ ammo for hunting deer. That doesn't mean you shouldn't spend the $15 on a box of hunting ammo, but it looks like it's not against MI law. "Anything larger than a .22 rimfire" is legal. Doesn't mean that it's ethical for hunting, effective for bringing down a deer, or a good idea.

    HOWEVER and this is a big however because it could be a serious offense...

    The Garand itself is illegal for hunting if unmodified.

    Michigan has a 5+1 round limit for semiautos. I'm not sure how to block a Garand magazine, but I'm sure people do it in states that limit magazine size for hunting.

    Also, in the area around East Lansing, ALL RIFLES are illegal for deer (from how I read the map anyway) though it's not too long of a drive to where they are legal.

    Again, check the laws!
  10. Ohen Cepel

    Ohen Cepel Well-Known Member

    It's a bad idea even if it is legal. A box of good 30-06 at Wal-Mart usually isn't over $20.
  11. Red Tornado

    Red Tornado Well-Known Member

    You can get 2 round or 5 round en bloc clips for your Garand. That should make it legal for hunting, just make sure you don't bring along a bunch of 8 rounders.
  12. mp510

    mp510 Well-Known Member

  13. clange

    clange Well-Known Member

    Exactly. It'll work, just not quickly.

    When I was young, like 14 or 15, and didnt know any better I used an SKS with FMJ ammo. The first deer I shot through the heart luckily, it only went 30 ft. My dad saw the holes and said to use JHP. Little did we know, JHP 7.62x39 acts exactly like FMJ. The next deer field dressed at 200 lbs even, and with a lung shot it took us 4 hours to find it and finally bring it down. Tiny hole on both sides. .30-06 has more behind it, but it doesnt matter, FMJ .30-06 would do EXACTLY the same thing as in my example.

    Use good ammo. FMJ or similar is unethical.
  14. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Well-Known Member

    Here's another issue- most .30-06 hunting ammo is not geared for the Garand's gas system. Most of it is loaded with powders that are slower burning than that loaded in military M2 ball or civilian equivelants. Use of such powders means port pressure will be too high and from what I understand, you're likely to get a bent op rod or, worst case, a bolt kicking out the heel of the receiver right in your face. My understanding is it has happened. That's why I recommended handloading the .30-06 with IMR 4895 under a 150gr SP. According to the Hornady 5th Edition manual I cited earlier as well as my own experience, IMR 4064 is also a good choice.

    Now, this matter of the Garand itself being legal or illegal for deer hunting... it seems to be grey area again. The magazine capacity can be reduced by the use of a 2rd or 5rd clip, but the rifle is still capable of loading 8rd clips. So it falls into whether the game warden sees it your way about those 2rd and 5rd clips as to whether you wind up in front of a judge. Then, the prosecutor is sure to argue you were using a rifle with capacity greater than legal. Question is, when your 2rd or 5rd clips are entered as evidence, will the judge and jury look at the clips or will they keep their focus on the rifle's issue capacity.

    My opinion... if you want to hunt with a military rifle, get a bolt action and you can use factory hunting ammo safely in most cases I've ever been around or heard of. Of course, my opinion there is based on Georgia not looking at bolts and levers, most of which carry 5-10rds, in the same light as semi-autos. But really, if you want .30caliber, I still go back to .30-30... much lighter rifle that still gets the job done quite well within 200yds if the shooter does his part.
  15. dakotasin

    dakotasin Well-Known Member

    that would depend on how the law reads. here, it would be illegal if the capacity was there, regardless how many were on your clip. if you blocked the magazine, though, you'd be fine.

    not sure why somebody would hunt w/ a garand, anyway... not the most wieldy of weapons, but i suppose it beats the tar out of watching tv...
  16. mp510

    mp510 Well-Known Member

    Then arguablt any rifle with a detachable magazine would be verbotten.

    Think about it, an M-1A accepts 20 (and even 10, 30 or 40) round magazines. With no magazine over 5 rounds in posession while hunting, would that mean your using an illegal implement?

    How about a Remington 700 modified to use M-14 mags?
  17. dakotasin

    dakotasin Well-Known Member

    if it has a 5-round mag, or a mag blocked to accept no more than 5, then it is legal, detachable or not. if the mag is unblocked and capable of carrying more than 5, then it is not legal.

    ar-15, ak, remington 700, 6-shot revolvers, all legal as long as the mag in the gun holds 5 or less for 5+1 capacity (and revolvers can carry 6).
  18. sithanas

    sithanas Well-Known Member

    Okay, so we've ruled out FMJ. (This would be why I ask before I go and do something stupid.)

    Anyone know any good commercial hunting loads that could be used in the Garand without damaging the gas system? I remember something about a variable gas release upgrade somewhere, and I don't really want to tune a handload if there's a commercial one available. Yet.
  19. GeoW

    GeoW Well-Known Member

    Quote 'Card

    It's not the latest, greatest, hottest, hardest, or fastest, but it'll do just fine for deer.

    Pure horse sh*t........:cuss:

    Will not do fine for deer, rather inhumane.

  20. confed sailor

    confed sailor Well-Known Member

    shoot FMJ in SC and DNR will hang you out to dry,

    not to mention i wanna eat what i shot, not run it down halfway to GA:neener:

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