.45 ACP bear defense load?

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Mall Ninja Moment: the ATF fee per 'destructive device' in only $500. For that plus a little, you could keep a heavy frag grenade in your pocket. If you ever need it, it'll be the best $500 you ever spent. If not, you'll have a heck of a conversation starter in the bars... 'light your cigarette, lady? OH! THAT's not my zippo! Sorry, wrong pocket..."

Of course, you'll say that's just SILLY TALK! ... but you're the guy taking a .45 to the land of the world's 2 largest bear species...
 
After reading this thread, I just wouldn't go.

And that would save enough money to buy a .44 Mag. :D
 
I know a person who regularly lived/worked/hiked Alaska with pepper spray and a colt officers model with fmj. Of course she also had her dog with her. She felt that moose were the greater threat.
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I can believe that more people die from bee stings than bear attacks each year . But I don't ever recollect of anyone ever eaten by a bee ! :eek: I would take the .45 and some bear pepper spray ! It seems your much more likely to have human trouble than bear trouble and the .45 will work wonders on humans ! Kevin
 
Seriously, you're more likely to be attacked by a random drunk than a bear. Plus, if people from AK tell you they're more worried about aggressive moose, they're prob right...If you ever get to Alice Springs, Australia, look out for red kangaroos. They're big as me, outweigh me, they develop a taste for stuff in people's garbage cans... I can only imagine how humiliated I'd be to get beat down by a kangaroo... or a moose. Carry pepper spray. Sometimes, it even works on drunks.
 
Don't use a .45 on brown bear. Don't use a .45 on black bear. Don't use a .45 on a wild hog.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying be smart and don't try it.

The .45 acp was not designed to be a bear, hog, or "man" stopper. It was designed to disrupt cavalry charges. Disrupt, not stop, turn, or kill, charging horses.

Several magazines worth of 10mm is the absolute minimum I'd want if I HAD to shoot at a grizzly... and that would still be from the highest branch I could climb to. YMMV, but chances are it won't.
 
Take those statistics that people are throwing around with a grain of salt. Those are presumably nationwide statistics for the USA or North America, or else worldwide statistics. Most people don't live in bear country, so of course that's going to make the per capita chances of a fatal bear encounter look miniscule. For those people who are in bear country and frequently encounter bears, I can assure you that the risk of dying from a bear attack is considerably higher, and it pays to be prudent.

That being said, I agree with people who recommend carrying bear spray. Personally, I would carry both bear spray and my 10mm. The 10mm may or may not stop a bear, but it's good against all sorts of different threats. The problem with bear spray is that if you're shooting it into the wind, you may end up incapacitating yourself. Guns work just fine when fired into the wind at short range.

Yes, a shotgun with slugs or a high-powered rifle would be much better against bears, but for people are into hiking who don't want to be encumbered by the bulk or weight, a lightweight (in terms of weight, not firepower) pistol is the next best thing. A powerful revolver would be better, but again weight would be an issue. For hiking, ounces make a difference, when you add them up across all the things you might be carrying, so you have to weigh the weight against the chances that you might need to use the gun. Everybody's situation is different.
 
I am heading up to Alaska for two weeks soon, and we will staying in bear country. They are a pretty common occurence at the lodge I will be at, and know to stay out of camp, but when we venture out, we will be carrying pistols. I am wondering if just a 230 gr FMJ or a 230 gr XTP would be better. I have both, just trying to decide which to take. And before anybody answers, no a .44 Mag is not in the equasion. I don't own one, and I am not gonna buy one just for this trip. I am sure either of the .45 loads would work in deterring said bear(s), but would one be better? I am not looking to kill one, just convince it to eat something else.

Comments?
The .45acp is inadequate for this purpose. Other then protecting young or source of food bears are probably less dangerous then people make them out to be. It took several years for that "Bear Boy" to get killed and eaten to very old one and he literally walked among them unarmed.
Best choice would be to carry noisemaker, bear spay and be with those who you can outrun if things go bad. Taking dog along would be very stupid idea. They will aggravate griz and when scared will run toward you with one close behind them......so unless you can outrun the dog you know where this is going.:eek:
 
Don't really see how a 45acp is inadequate for that but, check out grizzly extreme. The most devastating ammo I have ever seen. I believe a 45 would do more than "encourage " the bear to leave you alone. And if you got a 10mm there is another option. I wouldn't trust "bear spray"

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Without throwing more bear defense opinions into the ring, I'll just let you know about my experience with the Buffalo Bore .45 ACP +P loads.

The 255 grain load does not feed well in my S&W 1911 stainless government. The bullet used is a hardcast lead round nose flat point .45 Colt revolver bullet (with a crimp groove), so it is seated very deeply in the case. This makes the COAL shorter than just about any other .45 ACP round, causing the round to "nose dive" and get hung up during feeding from the magazine. Others may have better luck. I'm sure this round works fine in other types of .45 ACP auto loaders, but as with any defensive round, it should be thoroughly tested for reliability in your gun. I chrono'd this round at an average of about 930-950 f/s. A .452" 255-grain bullet moving at 950 f/s has another name - .45 Colt ;). But you get this power from a fast-shooting autoloader with more capacity than a revolver. I just wish Buffalo Bore would load this cartridge with a different bullet that wouldn't have to be seated so deep.

The other BB .45 ACP+P round I've tried is the 230-grain FMJ-FP (flat point). BB's claimed velocity with this round is 981 f/s. I have not had a chance to accurately chrono this round, but out of 4 or 5 other BB cartridges I've tested, their advertised velocities are very accurate, maybe even slightly underrated, so I have no reason to doubt that this round is doing something between 975-1,000 f/s from my 1911. This load feeds very well in my 1911, as the COAL is standard. It may not be as hard or as heavy as the 255-grain lead bullet, but it's still better for deep straight line penetration than any round nose or hollowpoint bullet.

If limited to a .45 ACP autoloading pistol for bear defense, these 2 rounds are probably your best option. You could certainly do a lot worse than an autoloader you are very good and fast with, slinging .45 Colt bullets at standard .45 Colt velocities. When people hear ".45 ACP", many of them immediately think of the old standard 230-grain round nose bullet moving at about 850 f/s. These two flat-nosed .45 ACP+P loads from Buffalo Bore change the game, a little.
 
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Just cover yourself in bear spray and the bear won't want anything to do with you. Put some open food in your buddies backpack and while the bear is busy you can pick your shots with the .45, you'll be a hero!

But seriously I got some unfired bear spray I got for a trip last year that you can buy at a discount.
 
Don't really see how a 45acp is inadequate for that but, check out grizzly extreme. The most devastating ammo I have ever seen. I believe a 45 would do more than "encourage " the bear to leave you alone. And if you got a 10mm there is another option. I wouldn't trust "bear spray"

You're absolutely correct. You will encourage it to kill you as quickly as possible, while it laughs (Mental bear laugh) at your mosquito sting wounds from your magic bullets.

This is your best defense. Take somebody like this with you. After you get done spraying the bear with your bear spray that wisely carried with you, you will be free to evade the bear while your friend Rambo slays the beast with his all powerful wonder-gun .45 ACP. Don't worry though, it's adequate.

Because shooting twice is silly...
 
You're absolutely correct. You will encourage it to kill you as quickly as possible, while it laughs (Mental bear laugh) at your mosquito sting wounds from your magic bullets.

This is your best defense. Take somebody like this with you. After you get done spraying the bear with your bear spray that wisely carried with you, you will be free to evade the bear while your friend Rambo slays the beast with his all powerful wonder-gun .45 ACP. Don't worry though, it's adequate.

Because shooting twice is silly...

I had an entire post written out to come back at this jackass but instead I will say this. It will be way better than pepper spray and if it is what you have (as you stated) then I would carry it. No one here has shot a bear with a handgun caliber I'm sure, especially the sarcastic poster above. So in my opinion, I would carry it. Wouldn't hurt anything for sure.

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1) bear spray
2) get a 10mm barrel and mag or 40 super barrel and some hard cast loads (if you're able to convert your pistol)

I'd use the spray as my primary defense and the pistol as a last resort.

Mattmann, I'm not being a smarty pants but do a Google search on how effective bear spray is. You might change your mind.
 
1) bear spray
2) get a 10mm barrel and mag or 40 super barrel and some hard cast loads (if you're able to convert your pistol)

I'd use the spray as my primary defense and the pistol as a last resort.

Mattmann, I'm not being a smarty pants but do a Google search on how effective bear spray is. You might change your mind.

I watched several videos and I see its pretty darn effective. I also just watched a video were a guy got his jugular ripped out by a bear that was getting slapped with rods andddddd sprayed with fire extinguisher sized pepper spray bottles. Although the bear did retreat, he held on about 5-10 sec before he did. And when he shook.....well that was all she wrote. God these things are beasts.

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The .45acp is inadequate for this purpose. Other then protecting young or source of food bears are probably less dangerous then people make them out to be. It took several years for that "Bear Boy" to get killed and eaten to very old one and he literally walked among them unarmed.

No, I am pretty certain bears are as dangerous as people make them out to be. Even extremely brief physical confrontations often result in the human going to the hospital and often staying for a while. I think what you mean isn't danger, but frequency of "attacks."

Yes, that bear boy walked amongst grizzlies for years. That would be Timothy Treadwell. He actually became able to do that through a long period of observation and familiarization with the bears such that his behaviors amongst the bears were behaviors they recognized as being bear social and as non-threatening. Treadwell was a very keen observer of bear behavior and no doubt had an exceptional knowledge of how to deal with most bears. Actually, Treadwell was able to get along with a variety of mammalian wildlife in ways most naturalists will ever be able to do. Treadwell made a point of not startling/surprising bears which is amonst the most common of encounters that result is direct physical contact between bears and humans where humans get hurt.

The problem with Treadwell's operational paradigm along with those of many folks who care for or train animals is that they are operating within a limited set of circumstances that are accepted as being the norm. Circumstances outside of the norm can result in unexpected and detrimental encounters and the humans involved may or may not even recognize the problem until it is too late.

Few hunters or hikers have Treadwell's insights into bear behavior, so to note his long success before finally getting killed and eaten isn't really relevant to any of the rest of us.

You're absolutely correct. You will encourage it to kill you as quickly as possible, while it laughs (Mental bear laugh) at your mosquito sting wounds from your magic bullets.

This is your best defense. Take somebody like this with you. After you get done spraying the bear with your bear spray that wisely carried with you, you will be free to evade the bear while your friend Rambo slays the beast with his all powerful wonder-gun .45 ACP. Don't worry though, it's adequate.

Because shooting twice is silly...

Wow, an opposite extreme. I would not want to rely on a handgun or bear spray to deter bears, but the fact of the matter is that they can and do work, but have serious limitations and don't work in all circumstances.

Shooting twice is silly? Many hunters with animal appropriate calibers have had to shoot bears multiple times and these weren't bears that were attacking.
 
I had an entire post written out to come back at this jackass but instead I will say this. It will be way better than pepper spray and if it is what you have (as you stated) then I would carry it. No one here has shot a bear with a handgun caliber I'm sure, especially the sarcastic poster above. So in my opinion, I would carry it. Wouldn't hurt anything for sure.

It is pretty obvious you're either very young or very inexperienced hunting wild animals. If you haven't noticed, you're in the minority opinion here and that should give you pause to consider your "opinion". Most of the "jackasses" in this thread recommend Bear spray over 45ACP. I'd imagine, most of them, myself included, have a fair amount of experience in the woods. I'd even be willing to bet that some, myself included, have Bear hunting experience. (go figure)

Deer often run away from poorly placed high powered rifle shots. They are even known to run away from some fairly well placed shots.

Bears are not Deer, they are stronger, tougher and angrier from just about any perspective. Just how effective is your 45ACP shot going to be when you're crapping your pants trying to retreat? It isn't going to be well placed and it isn't nearly as effective as a high powered rifle round. I'll let you figure out what happens next with your poorly placed ineffective round on a charging Bear.
 
Today, 07:54 AM #43
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Even so, Treadwell got himself and his girlfriend eaten.
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Treadwell survived that long for two reasons, he was quite brazen and bold holding his own ground in a dominant manner. That is something that is taught by bear experts to stand your ground bluffing the bear looking bigger than they are.

Secondly, Treadwell went to an area that had well fed "happy" bears. The bear that got him was an old and dying/starving beast by most accounts that couldn't keep up with the younger bears. Treadwell even pointed this out a couple of days before he was eaten likely by the same bear he made the comment.

Sadly, with a little bit of bear awareness and camp safety, he could have prevented his attack. A bear fence and pepper spray would have given him a measure of safety. Treadwell refused to consider pepper spray because he didn't want to cause distress to the bear. That was ultimately his down doing. His over familiarity with the bears resulted him pushing the limit too far.

The most amazing thing Treadwell survived for all of those years was not the bears, it was the mosquitoes that plagued him day in and day out for all of those years that is the most amazing thing of all. Prisoners in the Fairbanks area that have escaped almost always return to the prison to get away from mosquitoes out in the bush. One reason I don't mind staying here in Northern Idaho is that we are not plagued by clouds of mosquitoes like in Alaska.

Surviving the mosquitoes all of those years makes Treadwell a real mountain man if only a bit loonie as well, but who isn't a bit loonie to go live with bears for 13 years?
 
Imagine a lion taking down a zebra. The reason JMB made a 1911 is because he knew people thought they were supposed to die when shot. That's how handguns work- partly because they inflict 80% survivable trauma, and partly because people have been conditioned to lay down when shot.

Bears are not people. They will not stop. Bear spray is effective cuz it hits them where it hurts- their ultrasensitive nose.

I'd take a 1911 to protect myself from other hikers, though.
 
Treadwell didn't survive, that's the point. He went running around in a mine field. Marveling that he survived in the mine field for as long as he did does not change the fact that he blew himself, and another, up. He was eaten by a bear. I suppose I could play Russian Roulette and folks could marvel by the fact I had a sixth sense about where the empty chambers were. I could even give the bullet a name, and talk to it. Spin, click. Made it another year. Spin, click, that guy knows his guns. Spin, boom. Boy, did he know his revolvers. He just made one mistake...
 
I would carry bear spray, but I would carry that 1911 w/BB +P loads &extra mag.s. I also would look around for a 12Ga. PASG. You can pick up one used for less than $200 or you may know someone that would let you Barrow one. Use slugs & carry it in your hand. Even if you don't see them! The .45acp. will kill a bear but not quickly enough to prevent him from taking you out also!
 
I can believe that more people die from bee stings than bear attacks each year . But I don't ever recollect of anyone ever eaten by a bee ! I

A very good friend of mine died in May 2012 from a tick bite. Only a 3% chance but not so funny when someone you know dies from a 3% occurrence.

A bunch of bear pictures with people. Look at the size of the things.

That is why the statistics are grim for people who shoot big bears with handguns. Your 45 ACP is more likely to upset the bear, turn the situation into one which the bear will kill you.

http://adventurehunts.jeffpralle.com/?page_id=89

http://abnormaloutdoors.blogspot.com/2011/02/biggest-grizzly-bears.html

Pepper spray is a better idea as it is an irritant. Handguns as a last resort.

There are plenty of jokes about pepper spray, but I will bet Hornets have their jokes about humans. I am thousands of times larger than any Hornet, but I run as fast as my legs will take me, arms flailing at the air, when one of those buggers stings me.
 
This is your best defense. Take somebody like this with you. After you get done spraying the bear with your bear spray that wisely carried with you, you will be free to evade the bear while your friend Rambo slays the beast with his all powerful wonder-gun .45 ACP. Don't worry though, it's adequate.

Because shooting twice is silly...

I feel like I should clarify that this was heavily laden sarcasm directed toward the above poster at the time. It would appear some did not pick up not this. Apologies.
 
Thanks for the replies, as well as the death statistics! I believe thers is a shotgun issued with the cabins (or have heard so). For the most part, we will be fairly safe, but I know some of the folks up there carry .45s with them. I'm gonna check the the LGS for the Buffalo bore. I would assume they have bear spray up there as well.
 
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