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585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by hubel458, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. The_Next_Generation

    The_Next_Generation Well-Known Member

    This thread is awesome, I really want an NEF in this! (with a LOT of lead in the stock, and some serious porting/muzzle brake (but not a barret-style, something more tasteful).

    Can we make this a sticky? So that future wildcat-makers can see how its done ;)
  2. a-sheepdog

    a-sheepdog Well-Known Member

    You must be a recoil junkie! :what:

    I enjoy my 375 H&H but my 416 Rem Mag pushes the envelope of my upper pain tolerance. I could not imagine squeezing the trigger on that behemoth, I would probably develop a permanent flinch and quite possibly need to visit my doctor after a couple rounds.
  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    The guns are not lightweights and with thick pads, good stock
    design, and porting if wanted, they shoot nice with moderate
    9,000 ft lb loads, You know a 650 gr 585 cal bullet at moderate
    speeds way more effective that any 416/375s at any speed
    you can get out of them. Ed
  4. critter

    critter Well-Known Member

    That is absolutely the most insane thing I have ever seen! I WANT one!
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    Well we found stuff so you can get one done.

    Here is picture of 585HE in a Montana Rifle Co. PH action.
    The double stack mag for the 505 Gibbs they make works ok.
    The Enfield in the Hogue stock above is gone.


    We also had guy show us how the case can work for a
    high energy subsonic cartridge. High energy for subsonic
    1600 gr at 1050 fps. The 585HE Whisper
    Anyone with some way overbore 14.9 mm necked
    cases on huge actions, can make case inserts for
    using our case to fire subsonic And fire 650gr or 750 gr at
    high speeds. Can't get 14.9 Russian cases use ours in
    same gun with inserts.


    Break action I like we did on a CBC by mono-blocking in a 585
    barrel set up especially for Minie bullets of 440 to 540 gr.

  6. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    You can see from above posts I like Enfields and here is picture
    of how we set up action for long case and a singlestack magazine.
    We open bottom of action for length and use a lip type magazine
    insert to feed cases single stack. And lips are springy so we
    can load from the top.


    Here is the second gun I did years ago in the 585HE, an old style
    Ruger 77. And at that time I used the cases I made myself and
    they work great in the gun, high pressure loads, and extracted easy.


    Here is some math to show why I really like really big bores.
    There is term called Average Barrel Pressure, which is the average of
    all the pressures in a barrel, from the start where you have highest,
    called peak pressure. to the lowest at the muzzle when bullet exits.
    For high powered rifles average barrel pressure run 15-18000 psi.

    There is a formula that can be used to get Average barrel pressure
    fairly close if you know the muzzle energy.

    We multiply ME times 12 and divide by barrel cross section x length.

    Example a 458Win usually loaded to 5000 ft lbs, say in a 24" bbl.

    ABP = ( 5000 ft lbs x 12) divided by (.17 sg in x 24") = 15,000 psi

    Now you see there isn't a lot of room for big gains, as it would take
    peak pressures damaging to brass and gun, to get say 50% increase.

    Now example of 585HE in the 26" bbl we like, say a 7,000 ft lb load,
    a real moderate load in this case.

    ABP = (7000 ft lb x 12) divided by (.27 sg in x 26") = 12000 psi

    The bigger bore allows for a much larger potential,
    a 50% gain is easy to do.Ed
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    Here is a few of the variety of bullets we found or know about
    to use in 585HE, about a third of them, from 440gr, to 750gr,
    to 1200gr, to 1600gr.


    Here is picture of what 200gr powder, in a case that had
    the powder settled, looks like.


    We now have more 585 new straight blanks giving a total of 9
    basic blanks, with long ones for guys setting up target guns.
    And a bunch more of the profiled barrels are being made
    now to go with new ones we got left. One went on this BBK
    pictured, 3 on Enfields, one on FBW, one a Ruger.
    Guys have used 5 of the new slow twist barrels. Ed

  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    There is a guy and his smith in AUS that has a reamer for the 585HE.
    And maybe a another firm there that can get a bunch reasonably priced
    barrels imported in from the US. Our Mcgowen barrels are high quality,
    hand lapped, and only half of what getting them in from other places cost.
    Here is part of stuff that guys are working with..


    Here is picture of the Mossy 390 action, after I'd set up for the 585HE.
    Just to see how good the action is, and I have since set barrel back
    and made it into a 24ga FH. Just makes an easy to work with test gun.
    Being both use same size bore, and in 24ga with 3" chamber I can use
    577 brass for 24ga cases, using same Minie and jacketed as 585HE.
    58CAL IN ALL FORMS is where it is at, so to speak......Ed


    PS-We have longer barrels now for target work including real heavy ones
    of 1 5/8 inches, that some guys are working on getting bigger actions
    to use them in. .
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing,
    in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums.
    Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send
    dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D.
    There soon will be 3 reamers there.

    And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there.
    I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.

    Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland...
    allanswan at uplink.net.au.


    WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for
    wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their
    own headstamp.Ed

  10. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Well-Known Member

    I need one of these, in a 1917 Enfield action built up in the African style.

    Superb work. Well done!


  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    The enfield is one the easiest ones to do.
    It has got the length. Ed
  12. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Well-Known Member

    My shoulder threatened to divorce the rest of my body when it caught wind of the breakdown single shot.
  13. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    They can be weighted down and use thick pads,

    really the secret is, heavy barrels, and weight butt to balance
    it, and thick pad.. Ed
  14. Plastikosmd

    Plastikosmd Well-Known Member

    ^ my shoulder doesn't believe u.
    I developed a flinch just reading this:)
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    The y-tube video of the guy shooting the first 585HE
    in Texas, it is a NEF with heavy barrel, and it just
    raises him up, but didn't hurt him. Weighted and thick pad.Ed
  16. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
    stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
    don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have
    aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
    And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
    recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
    too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
    We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of.
    They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
    They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
    And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
    a piece of dense foam under butt pad.


    We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
    we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
    with the bullets loaded out.long. And we have those heavy
    powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield
    pictured I use as one of my test guns.


    And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
    585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us
    around like a weathervane.. Ed

  17. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
    brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
    to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
    plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
    of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.

    The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
    bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
    Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
    Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
    to wait for them to be made.


    Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
    screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
    monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed

  18. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Well-Known Member

    I don't think I've ever seen moderate and 9000 ft lb in the same sentence before.
  19. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Well-Known Member

    I need to come visit you when I'm in MI next time. This project is too interesting not to follow up on. You accepting guests for a look-see?


  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

    With the pads/weight it shoots easy like magnum 12ga in a light gun.

    Yes guests are welcome. Ed

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