7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 Stopping Power

[jason41987]

though the 5.45mm has less muzzle energy, my guess is it would have better down range ballistics.. it has a much higher muzzle velocity, so itll have a flatter trajectory, and not bleed off energy as fast

the bullet if i recall correctly is elongated for its diameter, has more weight in the base and i believe a hollow tip to crush on impact, forcing the rear section of the bullet to flip over the front and cause a tumble... so i believe these rounds are designed specifically to tumble, and doesnt just do it by chance

the only way i would attempt to quantify "stopping power" would be in kinetic energy.. i havent seen the ballistics charts downrage, but the 7.62x39 should have more energy at the muzzle and at shorter ranges, and with the inherent inaccuracy of the AK, i dont think theres enough range for the 5.45 to have better ballistics or energy until it reaches ranges its no longer capable of accurately hitting...

so on muzzle energy alone, and for the range of AK 4ifles if the bullet of the 5.45 did NOT tumble, the 7.62 would easily be ballistically superior, but if im correct in believing the 5.45mm tumbles by design its going to be much, much more likely to slice through an artery or major organ

 

[Sam1911]

the bullet if i recall correctly is elongated for its diameter, has more weight in the base and i believe a hollow tip to crush on impact, forcing the rear section of the bullet to flip over the front and cause a tumble... so i believe these rounds are designed specifically to tumble, and doesnt just do it by chance

Ok, once more, he's asking about Hornady TAP rounds. Those are loaded with V-Max hollowpoints. Not at all like the Soviet 7n6 ball ammo with the hollow chamber in the tip. Totally different animal and terminal performance.

Look at Sam Cade's post #22. He posted a picture of exactly what that bullet does in gelatin. We don't have to guess.

 

[fatcat4620]

Neo, the AP pistol ammo rule is for calibers larger than .22 which 5.45 is not.

 

[jason41987]

well then, on average the 5.45 has less energy than .223.. i would NOT use it to hunt deer... however, i would deer hunt with a .223 if i had to, and would have absolutely no problems doing it with 7.62x39mm... replace deer with any roughly 200lb target and the response is the same... for factory bullets that do NOT tumble, i would take the 7.62 by far

 

[meanmrmustard]

well then, on average the 5.45 has less energy than .223.. i would NOT use it to hunt deer... however, i would deer hunt with a .223 if i had to, and would have absolutely no problems doing it with 7.62x39mm... replace deer with any roughly 200lb target and the response is the same... for factory bullets that do NOT tumble, i would take the 7.62 by far

For penetrations sake, I concur.

 

[jason41987]

For penetrations sake, I concur.

for penetration, damage, energy... if that 5.45 isnt using a bullet designed to tumble, all its advantages are going to be lost

 

[meanmrmustard]

for penetration, damage, energy... if that 5.45 isnt using a bullet designed to tumble, all its advantages are going to be lost

Well, I'm talking DEER/hog/human penetration. Not barrier, in which case it still loses. But, for hunting, I'm not impressed with the 545 unless the game is hunting me and it's human. I won't combat the effectiveness of 545 on BGs with anyone here, but I'll take either other two cartridges for anything else. Whether we are talking car window or deer hide, I'd rather 556 or 762.

 

[M1key]

Brassfetcher video: 5.45x39mm Bulgarian 7N6 53gr FMJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oq3ZEZ7YFw&feature=player_embedded

M

 

[leadcounsel]

Well, the Ruskies adopted the 5.45 because it was lighter, had better ballistics, was a better penetrator (by design) and was theoretically more 'lethal.'

The Ruskies didn't get a lot right, but they perfected Vodka, the SKS, the AK47 and AK74.... and they kicked the Germans butts in WWII...

 

[ColdDayInHell]

5.56 NATO. Kidding, go for the 7.62x39. I wish I had a gun in that caliber and will buy an SKS soon. The 5.45x39mm is a solid round but lacks the energy that the other has.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

That's good stuff right there, that M67. I didn't have a chronograph at the time but I've had a few hundred rounds of it. If you're used to shooting lets say Wolf 7.62, then you throw in a mag of the M67, you can definitely tell the M67 is shooting hotter. Plus if you go by Sam Cade's chart above, M67 has the best mix of temporary/permanent wound cavity and penetration. I just wish I had more money with me the last time I saw it at a gun show.

 

[WardenWolf]

There's so many good commercial ammo options out there for 7.62x39 nowadays, there's really no reason to constrain yourself to military loadings. Especially when you've got this evil stuff available:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/64...9mm-123-grain-round-nose-soft-point-box-of-20

I don't even want to know what that will do. I just know it will be ugly. I bought 100 rounds for myself. Haven't used them yet. Saving them for hunting.

 

[meanmrmustard]

There's so many good commercial ammo options out there for 7.62x39 nowadays, there's really no reason to constrain yourself to military loadings. Especially when you've got this evil stuff available:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/64...9mm-123-grain-round-nose-soft-point-box-of-20

I don't even want to know what that will do. I just know it will be ugly. I bought 100 rounds for myself. Haven't used them yet. Saving them for hunting.

Those are mean, dude. Look like the ticket for a good hunting bullet. Wide profile like that is sure to do the correct damage.

 

[tryshoot]

Please don't shoot either at me. Dead is dead. Mod is right shoot an animal. Both are more than capable of killing humans. (Mod SAM 1911)

 

[KansasSasquatch]

The PRVI ammo that I've used, 7.62x54R, is good ammo. I have some of that round nose 7.62x39 that they make but haven't shot it yet. The down side to that ammo is that it is expensive compared to mil-surp ammo. If I buy it locally I'm looking at about $13-14+tax, for either 7.62 PRVI loading. You can get 2-3 times as much mil-surp (or commercial steel-cased) ammo for the same price. I expect the round nose stuff to act very much like a typical 30-30 load.

 

[flyskater]

Here's a video of a guy shot in the head with 5.45x39. (very graphic) That's a nasty exit wound

 

[M1key]

Attempted suicide? That is one lucky dude...

M

 

[3twelves]

I have about 250 of the Hornady's yet to try out on anything soft. 1500 of the 7n6. Telling the truth I like the ballistics of the 5.45 better than the 7.62 and 5.56 and would be grabbing the AK74 first.

 

[mr.trooper]

Have we finaly come to this at the last? Debating the myth of "stoping power" in relation to CENTERFIRE RIFLE cartridges for self defence? Presumably at point blank room to room distances?

 

[HorseSoldier]

+1. If you can hit center of mass as justifiable defensive shooting issues with a centerfire rifle, you tend to be the winner in that exchange. Hair splitting about bullet performance and such is angels dancing on the heads of pins stuff.

 

[jim243]

Presumably at point blank room to room distances?

I hope they know sign language, their hearing will be gone shooting those indoors.

Jim

 

[Owen Sparks]

Military bullets are designed specifically to tumble NOT because it is the most effective way to wound, but because it is the most effective way that they can get away with and still not violate the Hague accords.

Any convintional hunting softpoint will preform better on man or beast. If they did not the ammo companies would all sell tumbling FMJ hunting bullets.

 

[Sam Cade]

I hope they know sign language, their hearing will be gone shooting those indoors.

A 5.56 carbine is less loud than pretty much any centerfire pistol.

As a comparison, a 5.56 carbine is around 155db while a 9mm pistol is about 160.

 

[3twelves]

A 5.56 carbine is less loud than pretty much any centerfire pistol.

As a comparison, a 5.56 carbine is around 155db while a 9mm pistol is about 160.

not sure if srs

 

[Sam Cade]

not sure if srs

Yep...also remember it is a logarithmic scale. 3db is about twice the ju-ju.

http://keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2052

Table 2. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB
26" barrel 150.25dB
18 " barrel 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB
22" barrel 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB
26" barrel 156.10dB
18 " barrel 161.50dB

CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 " barrel 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18 " barrel 163.2dB
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB

CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel