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80% AR-15 lowers in California

Discussion in 'Legal' started by jnojr, Oct 1, 2004.

  1. jnojr

    jnojr Well-Known Member

    The hot idea du jour seems to be to get an 80% lower, register it as an "assault weapon", then finish the magwell and assemble a complete rifle. Seems solid to me... California law doesn't make any determination between a .50 caliber "assault weapon" and a has-a-pistol-grip-and-detachable-magazine "assault weapon.

  2. deej

    deej Well-Known Member

    Any AR-pattern weapon is verboten under SB23, regardless of brand (or lack thereof). See Kasler v. Lockyer and page 55 of the DOJ's "Assault Weapons Identification Guide."


    On a similar note, has anyone seen the registration forms for AB50? I wonder if they have the caliber space pre-filled.
  3. jnojr

    jnojr Well-Known Member

    Yabbut, and 80% receiver isn't an "AR series", since the magwell isn't finished.
  4. deej

    deej Well-Known Member

    Right, but by opening up the magwell you are making it into an AR-series weapon, which had to be registered on or before January 23, 2001.

    I think before we can know whether or not this is something we can get away with, we need to wait for DOJ to release the instructions for registering AB50 weapons. If the form has ".50 BMG" prefilled, it's pretty much a moot point.
  5. ShadowOne

    ShadowOne Member

    I thought the CA DOJ does continue to issue assault weapons permits, but only to military personnel and the movie industry? So it's not exactly true you CAN'T legally manufacture or acquire an assault weapon after XX-XX-XXXX date, you just need a permit to do so.

    It can't be because some 50 BMG rifles use a .223 receiver, and the receiver is the firearm. If the .223 receiver can't be registered the CA DOJ is gonna have to pay the owner for loss of property.

    I'm no lawyer, of course. But even a lawyer can't give you sound advice until there's a case law on the books.
  6. dave3006

    dave3006 member

    How would you register an 80% lower if it does not have a serial number?
  7. FNFiveSeven

    FNFiveSeven Well-Known Member

    You would put a serial number in it. Easy. No one says you can't put a serial number into some random piece of metal... at least not yet. Also, the law technically does not state that you had to have the AR series gun registered before any specific date, it just says that you have to have it registered to be in possession of it. I have a brand new Bushmaster AR that was just registered in August 2004 :D
  8. deej

    deej Well-Known Member

    How did you manage that?
  9. schizrade

    schizrade Guest

    blackrazor, please explain in detail.
  10. FNFiveSeven

    FNFiveSeven Well-Known Member

    sorry to get everyone going...

    I got a new AR because my old one blew up during a Ka-boom incident... had a case split on me and blow out my lower. So after a boat load of calls between Bushmaster, the DOJ, and my local FFL, I finally arranged for the importation and possession of a new assault weapon, at least, that's how the DOJ said it went. Of course, it's actually just a replacement lower receiver for my old one, but it did have a new serial number so they actually redid my entire AW form and issued me a new "permit" dated in 2004. Don't know if the legal types around here can turn this into a way to get new AW's, but that's what I did.
  11. stv

    stv Well-Known Member

    edit: Ah yes, the replacement clause. Never mind then.
  12. schizrade

    schizrade Guest

    Got my hopes up you bastage..... ;)

    on topic, I saw the guy selling these 80% lowers at the Cow Palace and he has people believing that making a 100% lower from his kit is legal.
  13. FNFiveSeven

    FNFiveSeven Well-Known Member

    It is legal... if you do it more than 3 miles off the coast or in another state. :D
  14. PromptCritical

    PromptCritical Well-Known Member

    The guy at Del Mar who was peddling these things said as long as a ten round mag was inserted and held in in such a way that it could not be removed it would be ok. I'm sure he was as FOS as the guys who said body armor would soom be illegal.
  15. PromptCritical

    PromptCritical Well-Known Member

    Oh, and I only have a few days left in this communist hellhole.
  16. Telperion

    Telperion Well-Known Member

    Has anyone confirmed with a lawyer whether this is or isn't legit? Since the law doesn't distinguish between one type of "assault weapon" and another, once the 80% lower is registered as an "assault weapon", it should be able to legally take on any and all characteristics of one. You just happened to put .223 upper on it today for cheap practice...
  17. FNFiveSeven

    FNFiveSeven Well-Known Member


    The problem is that when you register the AR lower as a 50 BMG (which is what I think you are proposing) they are not going to register it as an Assault Weapon, it will be registered as a "50 BMG rifle". If you convert it to an assault weapon, you will still be in possession of an assault weapons without a permit to possess said assault weapon. You cannot register new assault weapons in California, unless they are for repair of broken previously registered AW receivers, or if you are Dianne Feinstein or one of her bodyguards.
  18. ShadowOne

    ShadowOne Member

    Of course nothing is set in stone yet. But there's a good thread over at Calguns.net that explains there may be two lists of registered assault weapons. One for 50 BMG rifles and the other for SB23 assault weapons. In order to legally convert a 50 BMG rifle into a fully functional semi-auto AR15 with detachable mag, you're gonna need that one receiver to be on the SB23 registration list. But if it's one list then you have an opening.

    They're aware of not allowing de facto open registration of new assault weapons. Just 50 BMG rifles that are in compliance with all existing assault weapons laws.
  19. jnojr

    jnojr Well-Known Member

    California doesn't have a special ".50 BMG" classification. .50s must be registered as "assault weapons". There is no legal distinction (that I'm aware of) between one type or another. Especially if you can get the "8888" for caliber instead of having one caliber hard-coded.
  20. artherd

    artherd member

    You can finish the reciver, and buy any non "AR and AK Series" reciver for that matter, and build it into a full gun.

    You just can't attach a pistol grip if you have a detachable magazine, like any other rifle.

    Now, a list of "AR and AK Series" recivers DOES exist! But it is not what you and I would define an 'AR series'. Rather, the list is a list of EXACT STAMPINGS of lowers! Eg: "Bushmaster XM-15", "Wilson Combat AR-15" and the like.

    So, one could order say a "JP Rifles CTR-02" (which did not make the DOJ's "AR AND AK SERIES" list.) and build a gun withought the pistol grip, right now, and perfectly legally.


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