9mm bullet loading question

[ArchAngelCD]

Went shopping again today and bought some HP38, 300 CCI 500s and a caliper. The Magtech 115gr FMJs I have are .578.

You are going to like the results you get with HP-38(W231). I usually load a 124gr bullet in my 9mm ammo but when I do use a 115gr bullet a good charge of HP-38 is 4.8gr. You can go higher but that's a good practice load. HP-38/W231 will also work very well with lead bullets so you won't need to buy another powder if you decide to load lead too. There are other powders that work well in the 9mm like Longshot, HS-6 and a few others but I like HP-38 because it does a good job with different bullets and for both lead and jacketed bullets.

 

[J_McLeod]

dumb question: Are W231 and Hp-38 the same thing? Can I use load date interchangably?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Yea, Hp-38 and W231 are exactly the same powder and that has been verified by Hodhdon/ IMR/ Winchester. No need to take anyone's word on something that important, write or call them like a lot of us did to verify.

As for load data, all CURRENT load data is interchangeable. As a matter of fact the load data on the Hodgdon Load Data Site is identical for both powders.

 

[J_McLeod]

All the data at the Hodgdon site matches, but for some reason Lee lists them as having different VMDs.

0.0926 HP38
0.0931 WIN 231

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Which Lee book? It's possible (but I doubt it) at one point in history they were slightly different but for at least the past Decade they are identical. That's why I emphasized you can interchange "current" load data just to be on the safe side.

Like I said, write Hodgdon/ IMR/ Winchester and ask them to set your mind at ease.

 

[J_McLeod]

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1253614835.896=/html/instruct/index.html
The VMD .pdf at the bottom.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't know why they are listing different data for each. I would trust Winchester/Hodgdon more than Lee when it comes to their powders.

*EDIT*
At least they list W296 and H110 with the same VDM of 0.0656 (also the same powders along with W540/HS-6, W571/HS-7 and W760/H414)

 

[J_McLeod]

I don't know why they are listing different data for each. I would trust Winchester/Hodgdon more than Lee when it comes to their powders.

Agreed. Just about every load data I have has a recipe for one or other, so more options.

 

[First Big Foot]

Choosing a press

I might mention that I have been using a Lee Load Master almost 20 years. I prefer it to my RL 550, mostly because it has automatic rotating.

I did make a couple modifications.

1-The shell holder-inners were screwed down pieces of sheet metal, and if you wanted to check a shell mid turn you had to unscrew the darn thing. I made spring wire replacements that flex out of the way to check a round.

2-The rubber O-ring die locking nuts have been tossed, and Hornady or RCBS rings with set screws installed. This allows the dies to be removed, and replaced, without having to do all the readjusting.

3-A piece of primer plastic box was added to the side of the discharge chute between the chute and the lever handle to prevent rounds falling between the two to the floor.

The automatic shell dispenser was added, and I love it. It is my intention to add a bullet installer soon for a couple calibers.

As for picking a powder, I read up on all the various calibers I intend to load, and try to pick a powder that will do all of them. Unique is ubiquitous, HS6 covers several, depends on which rounds you wish to reload.

First Big Foot

 

[LiveLife]

I think First Big Foot posted on the wrong thread.

Good posts ArchAngelCD.

Load data for W231/HP38 used to vary slightly in the years past, but now they are the same as they are now exactly the same powder put in different label containers. Older load books/load data won't show the change. I always tell people to use the most current published load data as powder manufacturers/distributors do change powder formulations.

Hodgdon owns IMR, but is licensed to sell/distribute Winchester powders.

Hodgdon purchased IMR® Powder Company in October 2003 ... IMR powders continue to be manufactured in the same plant and with the same exacting performance criteria and quality assurance standards that shooters have come to expect.

In March 2006, Hodgdon Powder Company and Winchester® Ammunition announced that Winchester® branded reloading powders would be licensed to Hodgdon.

 

[918v]

I didn't say length did not affect internal ballistics, I said it did not figure into reloading data. If you want to apply it in some way, you have to measure it and do your own calculations.

Once upon a time, bullet seating depth was listed by makers like Hercules.

Sierra Hornady and Speer list OAL with their data. Data without OAL is almost useless. A max load for a 115gr RN bullet at an OAL of 1.169" will create excessive pressures when used with a TC bullet at an OAL of 1.080" and you can't load the TC bullet to 1.169" OAL. The TC bullet at that short OAL will cause excessive pressures even if you use a starting load for the RN bullet.

The best approach is to use the bullet manufacturer's data and their OAL. If you have another brand bullet, then the best way to go is to measure the bullet length and to seat it in such a way that the available case volume remains the same.

 

[Seedtick]

That

originally posted by 918v -
If you have another brand bullet, then the best way to go is to measure the bullet length and to seat it in such a way that the available case volume remains the same.

^ What he said ^

Seedtick

 

[J_McLeod]

Worked with the stuff a bit more in my free time today. I got the Auto Prime to work. It primed well, but didn't feed well with 50 in. Should I be worried about seating the primers too deeply? I measured some, and they were between .012 and .004. I stopped at flaring the case mouth. Tried a few, but even when I screwed the die in all the way, it didn't do much to the case, and I didn't get much resistance from the lever.

 

[J_McLeod]

Thought the story was interesting. Here is the reply to my email to Hodgdon customer service. They answered almost immediately upon receipt of my email.

There are a few powders that have or do share names, and data. These powder are the same as shown below. THE SAME. Exactly, made in the same plant, the same. The only difference in the name on the label.



231 = HP-39

540 = HS-6

571 = HS-7

760 = H414

296 = H110



These represent instances where the same product is marketed under 2 names. This started years ago when Winchester did not want to be in the powder business. Bruce Hodgdon decided to purchase WWII surplus powders in burn speeds used by Winchester and sell them to the public. Later, when military surplus supplies of these powders were exhausted, Bruce purchased the same powders in new production. Eventually, Winchester decided Bruce was making too much money on those powders and Winchester brought them out under the Winchester name. It has been this way for many years.



Mike Daly

Cutomer Service Manager

Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants

Hodgdon Smokeless Powder

IMR Powder Company

Winchester Smokeless Propellants

GOEX Blackpowder

 

[LiveLife]

J_McLeod, nice going! Primers seated .004" below flush is sufficient to set the primer anvil against the priming compound.

I stopped at flaring the case mouth. Tried a few, but even when I screwed the die in all the way, it didn't do much to the case, and I didn't get much resistance from the lever.

If you are using Lee powder pour-through case flaring die, you either need the funnel adapter or the Auto Disk swivel screwed in or the case neck expanding plug will simply move up and down freely.

 

[J_McLeod]

J_McLeod, nice going! Primers seated .004" below flush is sufficient to set the primer anvil against the priming compound.


If you are using Lee powder pour-through case flaring die, you either need the funnel adapter or the Auto Disk swivel screwed in or the case neck expanding plug will simply move up and down freely.

Thanks. Are they too deep on the .012" primers?

I am using the die you mentioned. I got the breech lock challenger kit, so hopefully there's something in there to make it. I'll take a look later.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

J_McLeod,
I listed all the powders that Hodgdon named as the same in an above post. (Post #32) I'm glad you took my advice and checked for yourself because you shouldn't trust anyone on the NET with something that important. (and possibly dangerous)

 

[LiveLife]

Are they too deep on the .012" primers?

If you seat the primer deeper than .004" below flush and begin to see flattening of the primer cup, you are starting to crush the primer cup to where the anvil is pushed into the priming compound instead of being set on the priming compound.

For me, slight flattening of the primer cup still ignites the primer. I have never seated the primer so deep and flat that it failed to ignite.

 

[Cemetery21]

+1 on the primer seating depth. I really crush them in since I'm so anal about not having a high primer. I have not measured, but I'm sure I'm as deep as you can get with the Lee tool. I've never had a failure or an accident and performance has been perfect shooting thousands of rounds a year at prairie puppies. I shoot some pistol, too, with the same seating force and no ill effects. I'm sure I'm crushing the compound, but I have not seen any adverse affects.