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All guns outlawed in Australia?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Cannonball888, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Well-Known Member

    Are all guns outlawed in Austrailia or just handguns? It seems to me it would be difficult to outlaw hunting. A guy in Austrailia wants to buy my bipod, and I didn't know quite how to respond.
  2. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    It's not even all handguns.

    Go to STI's site, navigate to the Trojan and check out the Aus and NZ shooter excerpt. Evidently, whatever's outlawed, that particular STI is an approved replacement.

    Our Oz members can fill you in on the particulars - I'm betting you're going to be pretty surprised.
  3. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, but I went to STI's site and didn't find any link called the Trojan.
  4. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Generally, only farmers or people living in remote areas are allowed to have guns (and only shotguns or rifles), then only for protection from predators. Self-defense is not a valid reason to own or use a gun. A lot of the Australian guns are wildcats based on the British .303. The .303 round and firearms for them were outlawed, so they modified their guns to bypass this very specific prohibition. Allowing new guns in-country is more to allow replacement of worn out guns for legitimate users, and the allowed weapons have to be approved.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  5. Cannonball888

    Cannonball888 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. Self-defense is not a valid reason? It boggles the mind how Austrailian citizens could allow this to happen to them.
  6. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

    Remember that Australia used to belong to Great Britain. Great Britain's civilians are still technically subjects, and their laws reflect this (as do the laws of their former colonies). It has been said that an armed civilian is a citizen. An unarmed civilian is a subject. Even in developed countries, this same correlation holds true. Australia's citizens are viewed as subjects of their government, and the government thus seeks to control them and decide for them what they, in their detached-from-reality ivory tower, think is best.
  7. bonza

    bonza Well-Known Member

    There is alot of misinformation out there on the state of gun ownership in Australia. I am a former Australian citizen now living in the U.S., but go back to visit fairly often, primarily to shoot as it happens.
    Australia is comprised of six states & two territories, each have slightly differing gun laws but the general gist is something like this:
    Semi-auto rifles are prohibited, as are semi-auto & pump action shotguns, though there are some exemptions from this for various reasons eg. agricultural and professional (rabbit/kangaroo) shooters. Bolt action, lever action, pump action (rifles), single shot, side/side, & over/under shotguns are still quite available & legal in the same models & calibers/guages as we see here in the U.S. Handguns in Australia have been restricted for many years, & generally require the owner to be an active/participating member of a pistol club, which requires a minimum number of shooting competitions a year to keep the license. I believe calibers over .38/.357 are no longer allowed, though again, I believe certain exemptions may be be available for certain shooting disciplines, ie. IHMSA, etc. , but I'm not 100% on that.
    The use of firearms for personal/home protection is very much frowned upon by the powers-that-be, in fact all firearms MUST be locked away when not in actual use at the range or in the field, even when being transported in a vehicle. Ammunition, too, must be kept in a seperate locked container. Back in the 1970s I knew a handful of people who had permits to carry a concealed handgun, it was rare then & I would think almost non-existant now. On the other hand, a friend of mine used to be a clerk for the Australian Post Office in the 1970s & would sometimes have to run to the bank to pick up money for payroll or whatever, his supervisor would just hand him a Browning .32 auto to put in his pocket while he was out on those errands.....times have certainly changed!
    Competition shooting & hunting are both very popular in Australia, in fact I could participate in many more shooting competitions, on a more regular basis, if I lived in Australia than I have available to me here in the U.S., but then again there aren't many other reasons to own guns there other than to compete or to hunt.
    The old .303 wildcats are pretty much a thing of the past. They were mostly a post-WW2 expediency, due to the lack of new sporting arms in the post war years. You'd see them in .22/.303, .243/.303, .25/.303, .270/.303, & even .375/.303. As I mentioned earlier, Australians now have all the standard & latest calibers we have, so you rarely come across any of the old .303-based rifles & ammo.
    I think the way firearms ownership has gone in Australia over the last fifteen or so years is tragic, but they are in far better shape than many people would have you believe.
    Just wanted to clear that up.
  8. Zoogster

    Zoogster Well-Known Member

    Australian law is complicated, nothing is ever "outlawed" so much as it is restricted beyond the means of the average person.
    They are not technicaly outlawed because government contractors and others can still get military hardware, full auto firearms, semi-auto arms etc with the proper license.

    Australia has multiple license types.
    The types of licenses the people who aquire them ususaly get only permit things like SxS and O/U shotguns. Even those only ususaly go to farmers in rural areas, though some others manage to go through the proper hoops.

    Pump action and semi auto firearms require a license most have no hope of aquiring.

    Category A licenses owned by some in rural areas allow airgun longarms (bb gun etc no handgun types) non pump or semi-auto shotguns, paintball guns, and non semi-auto rimfire rifles and airsoft guns.

    Category B allow non semi-auto centerfire rifles, and some muzzle loaders.

    The finaly category a gun desiring citizen has hope of aquiring with many hoops and red tape is a:
    Category H allowing only certain caliber pistols (primarily those under .38 caliber.)
    That ususaly requires long term enrollment in a club. There is minimum size requirements, minimum barel lengths, 10 round capacity maximum for the handguns and tons of restrictions.
    A category H license is required to legaly own a pistol sized airgun as well.

    The licenses require government inspection of government approved safes twice a year. They must be bolted to the foundation or weigh a minimum weight.
    Different weapon categories require even bigger tough more expensive safes.

    A category C license is where semi auto rifle and pump shotgun long arms start. They are limited to 10 or 5 round magazine capacity respectively, and nearly impossible for most people to get.
    Category D are unrestricted capacity long arms in semi-auto and pump and almost nobody has them except those who make a living shooting.

    Most people will be unable to get more than a category B license. If you want to belong to a sport shooting club and go through various red tape it may be possible to get yourself a category H and own a handgun.

    Storage requirements when not in use are much more restrictive as well greatly limiting potential self defense, requiring firearms and ammunition stored seperately.
    Each territory can have slightly different requirements, but they are generaly similar.

    Before 1996 people in portions of Autralia had greater firearm righ..erm, privelidges than even people in the USA.
    In Tasmania for example you could easily aquire full auto and select fire military arms.
    In a few years they had far less.








    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  9. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Well-Known Member

    From the Tasmanian website:

  10. Zoogster

    Zoogster Well-Known Member

    And Tasmania is the most conservative pro firearm portion of Australia.

    The official forms of course do not tell reality on the ground, just like someone outside of the USA would not understand the official NFA process in the USA and the associated limitations, and costs just by seeing the forms.

    Owning and using are also completely different and actualy using firearms even recretionaly, and transportation of them has a whole set of associated laws as well not simply explained by the forms.

    Since all licenses are discretionary since police must approve the storage twice a year and the firearms themselves almost no catagory C or D licenses are in reality issued. Yet by looking at the forms alone it looks like you could just apply for one.
  11. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    STI Complete Guns -> Single Stack/Trojan5.0 -> Read about the Trojan -> Asia Pacific -> Australian and New Zealand Handgun (PDF).
  12. Fred West

    Fred West Well-Known Member

    And how do you propose to stop it. Their government, any government, can do what they want and there's nothing you can do about it short of voting them out at the next election.

  13. Onmilo

    Onmilo Well-Known Member

    So, with the restricions in mind, what are the popular and available firearms in Australia at this time?
    What are the pricing structures for these firearms and what is the pricing and restrictions on ammunition?

    If keeping a firearm for defense against predators isn't "self defense" then I don't know what is.
    Even with the seeming popularity of meth cooking in my part of the world, one is far more likely to encounter a feral dog or a rabid raccoon or skunk than a miscreant human bent intent on doing harm.

    I also consider miscreant humans bent on doing harm to another human in the same realm as a predator animal and will deal with them in the same fashion.
    I imagine the same view applies in Australia.
  14. bonza

    bonza Well-Known Member

    Here's a link to a gun shop near Sydney. You can check out what's available down there & the costs. For comparison sake, as of today (3/15), US$1 would buy you AUS$1.53. Speaking with my friends in Australia it seems their wages for comparable jobs are a bit lower than here, plus their taxes are much higher.

    I think this refers to the remark about farmers being able to get licenses for certain types of firearms that may not be generally available (ie. semi-auto rifles). The firearms aren't intended to be used to defend the farmer against attack by wild animals, but to eradicate the threat, either physical attack or competitive grazing, to his livestock by shooting the wild pigs, dogs, donkeys, horses, goats, camels, etc.
  15. rogertc1

    rogertc1 member

  16. Yankee

    Yankee Well-Known Member

    Australian Gun Laws

    Zoogster pretty much nails it in his overview of our laws. Despite the knee-jerk response to the Port Arthur massacre, shooting is still a very popular sport here. In fact, Australia's equivalent of the NRA has seen a steady increase in membership and the number of firearms being registered is also on the increase. Losing many of our gun rights has not been the death of shooting sports and hunting but it is terrible to think about how good we once had things and how quickly and easy those freedoms were taken away.

    I'll just clarify a few things that haven't been correctly described. Self-defence is not an satisfactory or sufficient justification for obtaining any class of firearm in Australia but that does not mean that once that weapon has been acquired, that it cannot legally be used in a self-defence situation. We have had a number of examples over the years where people have used firearms during home invasions and who have not been imprisoned. On the other hand, I know of at least one case where a home-owner shot and paralysed a man trying to steal his dope crop and he had the book thrown at him for using lethal force in a non-life-threatening situation (and for growing drugs).

    Handguns including semi-autos are legal here and pistol shooting is a popular sport. However, the process to get and keep one is very onerous and expensive. Everyone must have a legal reason for acquiring a pistol and as previously mentioned, self-defence does not count. Unless you're a farmer or security gaurd, your reason will have to be "Club Use" meaning that you want one because you plan to participate in competition shooting. Whatever your reason is, you send away your application to the Police and after a background check, they will send you a letter saying that you are authorised to attend training at an approved training facility. My club ran the course for me and it took ten one-hour sessions with an instructor and cost something like $300. Most other clubs run the same course over a weekend. Once you have completed the course, you then have to join a licenced pistol club (mine cost $250) and the club then sends a letter to the Police to confirm that you have successfully passsed the course and that you are a financial member of the club. After a minimum of 28 days, your licence will come in the mail which requires a photograph and another $60. You are then free to purchase a handgun but that will come with another 28 day waiting period and for the first six months of your licence, the handgun must be stored at the club. After six months, you can take it home but it must be stored in a locked safe when not in use. OK, so that's good, you finally have your handgun at home (keep in mind that there is a 10-shot capacity limit). In order to keep that hnadgun, you must now attend a minimum of six competitive shoots a year and remain a paid-up member of the club. If you fail to pay your dues or attend your six events, the police will be on to you in no time demanding that you surrender the weapon and your licence.
  17. 4Freedom

    4Freedom member

    I had a friend from India who was studying hospitality management in Sydney as a foreign student. He told me that the crime in the city is out of control. Knifings are very regular. One night he was on the subway or whatever the public transit system they use over there is, and a group of Lebanese thugs came and sat around him. THey then stuck a knife to his throat. and one guy punched him. Knowing he was defenseless and that a knife against a group of well armed thugs wasn't go to work for him, he was forced to relinquish his wallet and watch. He had a gold necklace that was part of his Hindu religion that his grandfather or someone gave him. He lied and said it was a cheap piece of junk that he found at a market in India and offred to give it to them. Thankfully, they were not so smart and let him keep that.

    I just want to thank you Government of Australia for allowing criminals ot have free reign in your cities and to imprison your subjects (Civilians) to a state of servitude and fear. Good job making Australia a dangerous place to travel at night and helping empower thieves and tyrants in your country.

    WHile these bereaucratic dogs are hiding in their big mansions guarded by men holding fully automatic machine guns, their citizens are forced to hide themselves from the power of thugs and a police force who probably just doesn't give enough of a damn about them.
  18. Nulzilcho

    Nulzilcho Member

    I can vouch for that, although firearm deaths have dropped slightly (a trend research indicates began as early as 1992 in any case) violent crime rates have risen dramatically, particularly in urban areas. In the suburban area I lived when I began study at university we had robberies and sexual assaults on at least a weekly basis ...which was something to give pause on the early morning walks to work.

    As for how the media typically treats the issue of firearm ownership over here ...well, I stumbled across this the other week: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25157413-5001021,00.html :uhoh:

    Also, as this is my first post (having lurked for about a year) I'd like to say hello to everyone. :waves: I picked up target shooting with pistols about two years ago after writing an essay on firearm laws and have in the last nine months begun shooting rifles.
  19. Yankee

    Yankee Well-Known Member

    As an American, I'd love to believe that we are not only a safer place than other similar industrialised nations, but that safety is largely attributable to the second amendment. Unfortunately, I believe that this is not the case. I have spent many years living abroad in both Europe and Australia and the reality is that neither of those places is anywhere near as dangerous as many of our large American cities. Here are just a few examples I'll use as evidence. Data is the most recent I could find and I have focused on just Australia because that was the reason for this thread in the first place. Stats come from this site but citations are given to the original surveys.

    In 2002, 16204 Americans were murdered compared to 302 Australians. America's population is fourteen times larger than Australia's but the number of murders 53 times higher. This means that on any given day, an American is nearly three times more likely to die by the hands of one of their fellow citizens.

    An American is 9.5 times more likely on any given day to be murdered with a firearm than an Australian. Keep in mind that this is deliberate killing and not hunting accidents, suicide, range mishaps etc.

    420,637 robberies were reported in the US compared to 23,314 in Australia meaning that Americans are 20% more likely to be robbed.

    One percent of Australian women reported that they were victims of a rape in 2002 compared to 0.4% of Americans meaning that American women were just 0.6% less likely to suffer sexual assault.

    Americans are 7% more likely to suffer a violent physical assault.

    Australians have the highest rate of car theft in the world with an Australian nearly twice as likely to have their car stolen than an American.

    America leads the world in incarcerating it's citizens with more prisoners than Communist China despite the fact that China has 4.5 times more people. Americans are 6 times more likely to be in prison than Australians.

    As I said at the start, I wish we could say that America is the safest place in the world and it's as a direct result of our firearm freedoms, but reality says otherwise. Personally I believe that much of this is cultural. I grew up in a community saturated with firearms and crime was unheard of. I've been to places like Switzerland and Israel where every citizen is armed and yet the crime rate is nothing like it is in America. I've been to places in Africa where the only firearms are in the hands of the government and yet rape and murder is out of control. Rather than access to firearms, I suspect that the strongest driver of crime in America is things like extreme poverty, drug dependence, poor education, mass immigration from the third world, lack of social cohesion, absence of male role-models, moral-free education etc
  20. rogertc1

    rogertc1 member

    The USA has more population and land than Austrailia. Australia a county linked to English criminals who exploited the local native population.

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