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ALL prior service were trained to use full auto m16's with high cap magazines

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Tirod, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. Tirod

    Tirod Well-Known Member

    How many millions? Every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine is trained to use the M16 or a variant, and issued high capacity magazines. Millions. I tried to estimate how many, it ran over 20 million if you included the M14's.

    One source - the number of veterans: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/veteranscensus1.html

    We currently train over 800,000 a year in basic alone.

    And nobody is talking about it.

    Why? We need to make more of it - millions trained at OUR expense to Government standards to fire a fully automatic weapon and/or with large magazines, and trained on more than one in many cases.

    Let's see, M9, M16 and A1 and A2, M60, M249, M2, M17, not countintg the Dragon, TOW, M72 LAW, STINGER, and REDEYE. Grenades and the Claymore, too.

    Just one list I am acquainted with, doesn't include single stacks and personal weapons. And like a lot of others, I may not be in service any more, but I haven't suddenly become less capable and a danger to society. (At least I haven't started my kit car project. :D )

    Add the millions of police, deputies, and all the training they get using firearms. I hear the local PD practicing with M16's - full auto - on Sundays after I get off work. On loan from Uncle Sam.

    We're getting completely left out of the conversation, and it's really beginning to annoy me. Who said we can't handle a semi auto AR with a 20 round mag? Kid's rabbit rifle compared to the some of the other stuff.

    Ooohhh, wait a minute, I get it, it's all a grandstand show, folks. Balance and common sense aren't part of this act. We're not talking statesman, it's Illinois politics, and that's the dirtiest politics in the USA. Good old Chicago.
  2. Grassman

    Grassman Well-Known Member

    Think you're correct sir.
  3. gbran

    gbran Well-Known Member

    I trained with M-14's first, then M-16's.
  4. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Well-Known Member

    Your point is what i usually use as my closing argument to the "only cops and military" nonsense.
    "Ok, only people trained in the military; that's me and him and him and about 30 million other citizens."
  5. C96

    C96 Well-Known Member

    Not quite all. I was trained on the M1 Garand and the M1 carbine.
  6. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    You're correct, and have every right to be angry.

    But don't discount us good old boys who didn't serve, even the ones trapped in downstate Illinois (e.g. occupied territory).

    Some of us know how to shoot very well. :)
  7. OptimusPrime

    OptimusPrime Well-Known Member

    Very true, and my comments certainly aren't meant to discount anyone else's civilian experiences. My point is only that even if they restrict ownership to those few special people who've received all that wonderfully perfect government training (sarcasm face?) we still have 30 million of us. Point=ridiculousness.
  8. Gunnerboy

    Gunnerboy Well-Known Member

    Theres an easy anwser to our issues.... we all need to get deputized then we can possess any weapon out there and all the "hi cap" mags we desire.
  9. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    I was trained with the M-16 and standard capacity magazines, thank you very much.

    Standard capacity for the armed forces is 30 rounds.

    I consider a Beta mag to be high capacity, and we never used those. If we wanted that many rounds, get a belt fed.
  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    I bought a brown paper grocery sack half full of GI issue 30 round M-16 mags for $15 bucks 5 years ago at a garage sale.
    About $.75 cents a mag!

    They still had Ft. Bragg red clay dust in them!

    The garage sale guy was a just retired Army officer who had just moved to town.

    It could be a new cottage industry for returning GI's I betcha!

    Wonder what they are going to do about that??

  11. ID-shooting

    ID-shooting Well-Known Member

    Weeeeelllll. The stamp on the mag says "LEO/militray use only" right? Most of are in the military...the militia. Albeit unorganized.
  12. mikechandler

    mikechandler Well-Known Member

    Yep, me too, 1970's, USAR, M16A1, though we had 20 round magazines. I was a signal corps communications chief, but even I had to qualify with my rifle - I think it was true in most branches of service regardless of MOS.

    They are grossly underestimating just how many veterans there are with an AR. But of course they would have no idea... because not many veterans are democrats, and I doubt many veterans believe gun control is a good idea either.
  13. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Well-Known Member

    You guys better knock this off. It just isn't polite to go around interjecting common sense into the circus that has been ginned up for our entertainment.

    The problem with debating this way is one of familiarity. Let's say you were prior service (me too, USN) and having this debate with a friend or relative. You are familiar to them, so not included in this mythical class of "military and police only". I went through this with my own granddad a few days ago. The "highly trained" argument came up. Expert rifle and Pistol medals came out of the dresser drawer. No effect, because the "military and police have real life experience". He seems to not remember all the letters sent home from crappy places around the planet. It's because I'm familiar and therefore not part of a mythology they like to believe in.
  14. wideym

    wideym Well-Known Member

    I get angry with the pundits who keep repeating the "only the military and law enforcement are trained" line. I had 17 years of military training, a little over 14 of it in the Infantry. Yet as soon as I'm out, I'm not trusted to own an AR-15.

    What about when I was 20 year old specialist who was in charge of hundreds of M-16s, grenade launchers, belt fed MGs, and the like. I must say that today I am much more mature, but now I'm not to be trusted with a semi auto rifle?
  15. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    Miltary /LEO mags were COMMONLY sold to everyone right after 94, they had their stocks built up, and simply opened the gates wide on the warehoused inventory.
  16. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Well-Known Member

    I'm a volunteer RSO at a local shooting range near an Air Force Base. Many of our rifle shooters own ARs and come practice with them regularly because in a worse case scenario where they have to drop their tools and grab their rifles they want to be proficient with them and the Air Force only has them fire them once per year and with a limited amount of ammunition. That's one of my closing arguments and one of the obvious arguments I wish our "Point Person", if we had one, would make.
  17. Hacker15E

    Hacker15E Well-Known Member

    Let's remember that less than 10% of the entire population of the US has even been in the military.

    Not as common as one would think.
  18. w9trb

    w9trb Well-Known Member

    I was in the USAF Security Police trained with full auto M16, riot shotgun and pistol. I really resent the current government ignoring the reality of my training and treating me like an errant child. There needs to be truth and sanity in the discussion of firearms and the government needs to deal with reality. I have never been a threat to them or anyone else. I have seen the stockpiles of weapons they have. With their weapons they can threaten the entire world and yet they want me disarmed of my semi-autos? The next time we vote, people had better do some serious reflection because it is clearer than ever that elections have consequences.
  19. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Well-Known Member

    Outstanding observation!

    That's a kick-ass response to the tired old "... only in hands of properly trained..." rhetorical argument about qualifications relative to ownership.

    I wish I'd though of it.
  20. tulsamal

    tulsamal Well-Known Member

    There is another area in the gun debate where I tend to bring up veterans. When the anti's start saying teachers and staff "wouldn't know how or when to use a weapon." Or "wouldn't want to be 'forced' to learn." Totally discounting the fact that MANY of today's teachers are vets. I know, I have been both.

    And it gets even better when you think about it. My time in service was 85-93. I was lucky enough that I was never sent into combat. When I entered the Army in 85, my first unit still had some NCO's and officers who had served in Vietnam. But by 93, it seemed like somebody with actual combat stripes on their dress uniform was rare. That has all changed now. We not only have lots of vets, we've got lots and lots of combat experienced vets. Some of them with 3-4 or even more tours of duty in combat zones. These combat vets are a precious resource in lots of ways. They certainly could become teachers or coaches or vice principals... and carry a gun every day. If something bad happened, if a 16 year old showed up with a gun... you really expect me to believe that these vets would somehow "panic" and not be able to handle the situation? I don't believe it!


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