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Alternate self defense weapons ?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by BADUNAME30, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Well-Known Member

    Inches from your face? Should never let anyone hostile get that close. A good cane is a great weapon IF you learn a few simple moves with one and can be carried anywhere and provides all important distance. IF a man is way inside my comfort zone I am personally fond of a palm strike to the chin, thumb under his chin & fingers of the same hand in his eye or if you have a cane use it as an impact weapon straight up to the chin, neck & stomp his instep. Works for me.
  2. Gordon

    Gordon Well-Known Member

    Wait till you get old ! Suddenly instead of the big lunking bad boy you are a tired , worn out white hair target! I let people posture and vent but will back pedal as far as possible. If 6 feet is closed I scream loud warnings to keep back as I am calling the police, keep coming and I yell STOP and go into lethal mode which WILL occur right at physical contact. I'll let the legal chips fall as I feel I am justified.No more less than lethal on humans from this senior citizen, sorry.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  3. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Watch some Youtube videos about how fast a fightfight can occur, and how quickly it can go badly for the loser.

    Knockout punches and kicks can and do occur, in an instant, with no warning. Once you're knocked out, it's game over for you. You may never wake up.

    It's often said that an attacker can close 21 feet distance in 1-2 seconds.

    I feel that nearly any serious attack by an adult male is deadly force if using fists or feet, and clearly if there are weapons. Stats show that more people are killed annually with feet and fists and clubs than with 'assault rifles.'

    My advice is to train how you fight, and stick to simple tools and know your own Escalation of Force contingency. Flashlights may diffuse a situation, or temporarily blind someone or give you better visibility whether they have a weapon, so they are good to carry. Pepper spray has it's place, and I carry it on occassion where I'm concerned about wild animals or stray dogs. But the handgun is for serious situations; if I feel that I'm in imminent fear of death or serious bodily harm, I go for the handgun.

    In my home? If you're there committing a serious felony and I fear for my safety, you'll wish you weren't. Fire extinquisher? Uh, no... 12 gauge.
  4. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    I'm a big fan of the "M4gery" for HD. The Army gave me thousands of rounds to practice with one...so I've now practiced with one more than anything else. And it can handle multiple targets with minimal recoil, high effectiveness, and little chance of overpenetration. :)
  5. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator

    I have gotten pretty good with my cane in the last 5 years, but it will not replace my side arm
  6. JimStC

    JimStC Well-Known Member

    Ditto on the M4. 10" barrel, YHM Ti suppressor, illuminated CQB glass, mounted light, laser. Sure can solve a lot of problems.......
    I have a couple of 12 ga too. Just like the M4 better.
  7. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Oh, very nice. You running varmint bullets to ensure expansion from that barrel?
  8. JimStC

    JimStC Well-Known Member

    55 gr V Max over 24.0 gr H-322, 2.210 OAL.

    Edit to add: Also Hornady 55 gr fmj, rest of the specs are the same

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2013
  9. robinkevin

    robinkevin Well-Known Member

    I like to carry a cane if going some place that I feel conflict is more likely than normal. I have trained in everything from Traditional Shotokan Karate, to Aikido, with that being said I suggest people that care about self defense learn first how to box. Boxing will teach you basic punches simple footwork and blocking. Then Jujitsu or Judo is prefer for close quarters. With Jujitsu I can disarm, and control an attacker rather quickly. In most cases a good wrist or arm lock is the fastest way to end an conflict and get control of the situation.
  10. JimStC

    JimStC Well-Known Member

    Excellent advice! Why didn't I think of that myself? Wait, I did and this is very coincidental. My Escrima instructor also teaches traditional boxing. He was the CA state kickboxing champion back in the '80's and his brother was #2 in the world in his boxing weight class during that time too.
    After 6 months or so of Escrima training I asked him to also train me in traditional boxing. I bought gloves, heavy bag and double end bag and set up a "gym" at my home so I can train on my off days. We have added boxing to our training. Seems like a good way to round out my program.

  11. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    Don't know where you live, but all but the two folders on top would get you a stay in the grey bar hotel where I live.
  12. CA Raider

    CA Raider Well-Known Member

    in your situation ... what you need is something that will make him back off. if you hit somebody who's angry with a tactical flashlight - that could drive him into the FIGHT part of Fight-or-Flight. How about a Barracuda stun gun? I would probably think twice before I had one of those things jammed into my ribs.

    CA R
  13. DNS

    DNS Well-Known Member

    I don't carry a maglite 24-7.
    I don't carry a fire extinguisher either.
    My wasp sprays at the house for wasps.

    Pepper spray gives me a small package to carry on my key ring which means its always with me. It also allows me some distance against BGs, dogs, etc.
  14. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    It's true that a small flashlight is a contact distance weapon, just as pens are (though I prefer flashlights). If I am truly in fear for my life, though, and he's in range, I'm striking for the temple.

    If I'm not in fear for my life yet, and/or the attacker isn't in range, I'm really, really good at nailing attacker's fists and forearms. If you do that while holding a small flashlight, there's a darn good chance his arms will be numb. Hard to attack with arms that don't work. :D I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't pay to make assumption about how others are going to use a defensive article.

  15. wep45

    wep45 Well-Known Member

    (A) super soaker water cannon filled with bleach or ammonia and (B) a baseball bat.

    (A) aim for the head and eyes and then (B) smash em inna groin.
  16. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Neither of those things is a good choice to carry around. Unlike something you can easily put on your belt or in your pocket.
  17. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Regarding wasp sprays, bleach sprays, etc....

    Not a good idea to go using bleach or wasp sprays at people, unless you want a Federal conviction, find and jail.

    Why the effort to find some less effective unconventional weapon when handguns are affordable, compact, effective, and legal?
  18. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member

    Good points.

    However, I think some people (not everybody) on both sides of this equation are missing a very important point.

    The point being that you should defend yourself to the maximum extent possible with whatever weapon(s) of opportunity you have at hand.

    To intentionally make a weapon out of wasp spray before hand may indeed be in violation of the law. However, grabbing a can of wasp spray to defend yourself in the heat of battle is using a weapon of opportunity. Big difference.

    It's the same difference between carrying a baseball bat you've driven gutter spikes through as a deadly weapon and grabbing you son's baseball bat in the den to defend yourself. Both are potential deadly weapons, not intended for that purpose; the difference being in the approach to how they were brought into play.

    I don't think there are very many, if any, legal cases where a person defended themselves in a matter of serious assault with such a weapon of opportunity where they were prosecuted for "weaponizing" such items.

  19. TAKtical

    TAKtical Well-Known Member

    Fox labs. A buddy of mine works for the local PD swears by the foam.
  20. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    That addresses the state use of force laws and the state laws pertaining to the possession of weapons.

    But that's not the issue regarding wasp spray.

    There is a Federal law that covers the use of wasp spray for uses other that killing wasps and hornets. USC Section 18, Part 1, Chapter 11B, Chemical Weapons makes it unlawful for anyone to knowingly receive, stockpile, retain, own, possess, or use, or threaten to use, any chemical which, through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals, except for "any peaceful purpose related to an industrial, agricultural, research, medical, or pharmaceutical activity or other activity."

    Criminal penalties include fines, imprisonment (up to life) and even the death penalty, if death results. There is also a provision for hefty civil penalties, which of course do not require the Government to prove the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.

    It is important to realize that this is entirely separate from state use of force laws; there is no provision for a defense of justification, and the case would be prosecuted by an Assistant US Attorney in a Federal court, presided over by a Federal District Judge. It is very possible that facts concerning the reason for the unlawful use would not be admitted into evidence.

    Pepper spray and chemical mace are specifically exempted from the law.

    One could hope that the Assistant United States Attorney would use his or her discretion to not prosecute someone for using wasp spray for self defense unter extreme circumstances, but when one considers the number of people who have ended up with federal criminal convictions under what anyone in his right mind would judge to be entirely innocent circumstances, that would not be a prudent gamble at all.

    In cases involving a whole raft of Federal laws, "innocent" means that one did not do it.

    One would be better off using pepper spray if deadly force is not justified. If deadly force is justified, one would be better off using a firearm.

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