1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Alternate self defense weapons ?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by BADUNAME30, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member


    Being the good little boy that I am, I looked this up (thanks for the reference).


    I'm not so sure that this actually covers what we're talking about.

    Chapter 11B is specifically titled "Chemical Weapons". And, as it appears to be defined in 229F, wasp spray doesn't seem to fall into that category:

    A- It is a toxic chemical, but it's intended for a purpose not prohibited under that chapter in the type and quantity intended for its use.

    B- It is not a munition or device, specifically designed to cause death or other harm through toxic properties of those toxic chemicals specified in the paragraph above.

    C- It is not specifically designed for use directly in connection with the employment of munitions or devices specified in paragraph B above.

    Purposes not prohibited by this chapter includes "Peaceful purposes. - Any peaceful purpose related to an industrial, agricultural, research, medical, or pharmaceutical activity or other activity."

    Killing wasps is a peaceful purpose (well...not for the wasps, anyway) which can fall under agricultural or "other activity".

    It seems that the entire context of this chapter deals specifically with chemicals and precursors designed or directly related to military chemical warfare use.

    I don't see wasp spray as falling under any of those definitions. And, if it does, then there are a great many household chemicals which may also fall under this prohibition you speak of, such as ammonia, bleach, and lye.

    That they may be lethal when used in self-defense doesn't matter in my opinion. (Of course, my opinion isn't "law", either.) The guns we profess to be ready and willing to use in self-defense are lethal weapons. The kitchen knife I may grab is a lethal weapon. The baseball bat or crowbar I grab is a lethal weapon.

    The kitchen knife is designed for a peaceful purpose...as is the baseball bat and the crowbar.

    Now, I'm not an attorney and I may, indeed, be 100% wrong in my opinion. I am open to that option and will gladly eat crow if someone can make me see the light. Certainly, if I AM wrong, I would not wish to advocate such actions.

    I did some more research and there may be laws specifically dealing with intentionally poisoning someone...and wasp spray IS a poison. This is, of course, a felony.

    It also turns out that wasp spray is a really poor defensive weapon...it's not a very powerful skin or eye irritant, so it really sucks compared to the pepper sprays available. And pepper sprays can, indeed, have similar ranges to wasp spray. So one would be stupid to advocate going through the trouble to buy a can of wasp spray specifically for self defense when he could spend the SAME amount of money on a much more effective can of pepper spray.

    To that end, I will NOT advocate deliberately staging wasp spray for defensive purposes.

    I guess the main problem I have is the issue that there may be no provision for an exemption for self-defense...where it's a "him or me" situation and a person will literally grab anything they can reach in an effor to stay alive.
  2. jauguston

    jauguston New Member

    Take a look at the Kimber Pepper Blaster II. I carry one as well as my Sig P238. My wife and daughter also carry one. There are some Utube videos that give a good idea how they work. I took the recommendation of buying two for each of the ladies. The first one (They are 2 shot) was used to ally their fears of it and show them what it did and shoot at a target The second one to carry. A very good non-lethal option.

  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    It does.

    Of course. That is why it is sold.

    But spraying it on a person is not lawful.

    Among the operative words, however, are "precursor" which means any chemical reactant which takes part at any stage in the production by whatever method of a toxic chemical. A toxic chemical is defined any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals.

    How so?

    You are right on the money.

    As a matter of fact, one person of whom we know has been prosecuted under the act in Federal court, convicted, and imprisoned for having knowingly exposed someone to contact with household lye.

    All of that falls under state laws, and under those, there are provisions for defense of justification.
  4. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Well-Known Member

    @ Kleanbore:

    How 'bout this:

    I'll take the high road on this one and defer to your judgement. This is, by far, the most conservative route to take on the subject. And I doubt that I'll find any firm support of my previously stated views by trying to interpret these things on my own. As I said, I'm not an attorney, and I do know that my opinion does not necessarily constitute reality with respect to the law.

    I'll leave off on further discussions here about the legality of this and just bring it up in private conversations with some friends/family who are attorneys and see what all I can learn on the subject. Right or wrong, I'm always willing to learn.

    As I said in my last post, it does seem to me to be a stupid thing to deliberately plan on staging wasp spray as a potential self-defense weapon in the first place, after what I found out about it's effectiveness.

    - It's not really any cheaper than a quality pepper spray or mace.
    - It's not nearly as effective an irritant to skin and eyes as pepper sprays or mace.
    - It has no better effective range than a quality pepper spray or mace.
    - It's not nearly as small and convenient to carry as pepper spray or mace.

    As one site I researched said, it's stupid to count on the comparatively feeble effectiveness of wasp spray as a reliable defensive weapon, especially since its lack of effectiveness may only serve to enrage your attacker and increase the danger to your own life as a result.

    Thanks for taking the time to point all this out to me.

  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

    That's a good point. Also, although it may appear inconsistent with that, there is the issue that the use of wasp spray on a person would likely be judged as constituting use of deadly force, because it can be reasonably expected to cause permanent blindness. And there's the Federal law.

    All in all, the use of wasp spray on humans is a very poor idea.

    That's what we are here for.
  6. Tirod

    Tirod Well-Known Member

    I appreciate the expanded explanation. I've had similar instances, too.

    Of course, when the story is expanded to explain all the actions and circumstances, it's pretty easy to say "can't be more wrong." If information is withheld and the wrong interpretation of a sparse story given, I don't think that's the fault of the reader.

    It does point out that there's no give or take in this presentation, which IMHO only underlines my point. Otherwise, why post up at all?

    Given that the long version makes it apparent neither one of us is posting from the high school library, I'd like to say I appreciate your actions at the pump. Obviously somebody else was having a bad day and took it out on you. It's apparent they weren't thinking about it, and were engaged in the "dance" completely.
  7. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    There is one very unlikely scenario...

  8. gfanikf

    gfanikf Well-Known Member

    You sir have won the internet for the day. Nice 1950s B-Movie Reference!
  9. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    What does it mean if I actually own that movie?
  10. gfanikf

    gfanikf Well-Known Member

    You're like me. Lol

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
  11. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

    ...and me. :D

Share This Page