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Always mention Switzerland

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by telomerase, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. telomerase

    telomerase Well-Known Member

  2. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

  3. La Pistoletta

    La Pistoletta Well-Known Member

    How hard did you say is it to become a Swiss citizen? :p
  4. KelVarnson

    KelVarnson Well-Known Member

    This is an interesting read, although I automatically question its overall accuracy, because of the tone in which it is written. The author sounds like a U.S. citizen who doesn't like his country all that much.

    And THIS statement is absolutely ridiculous:

    "The huge US war machine could not even intercept civilian airliners on 9-11"

    We all know that the U.S. Military could shoot down airliners all day long, if they had a reason. Who knew those jets were going to crash into buildings?

    Why do people even go there?
  5. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

    There's a lot to admire about the Swiss. But there's also something to remember when using Switzerland as an example of the value of private citizens having guns. It's my understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong, Shung) that the Swiss have uniform compulsory military training. Every male spends some time in military and then remains, essentially in the reserves. He must keep his rifle, or other assigned weapon, at home together with a quantity of ammunition; and he must qualify periodically. He remains subject to some military authority and the chain of command.

    I'm not saying that's a bad idea. In fact, I sort of like it. But since we've done away with the draft here, we've pretty much taken a different path.
  6. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    You do what we call "recruit School" when you are around 20 (after what you call high school) for 4 to 5months .. it's kinda boot camp. You learn military basis, and than specialize. (Air force solider in my case) . Than, every year, you have a 3 weeks military course, in which you still get paid, as if you were working.

    This, for a total of 300 days, or until you reach 34yo. Then you go to the reserve.

    Now, if you want so, you can make what we call, LONG DUTY, and make all your 300 days at once, and then be in the reserve.

    you also have a qualifiying shooting test each year, out of your military days.

    Yes.. You are a citizen. who has rights, but also duties, for the country.

    this year, I had to give up my 50rounds sealed ammo box.. we had them at home from WWII...

    this because the ANTI here argued that it was too dangerous to have ammo AND rifle at home.. We still have the AR... I don't know for how much time..

    Funny things, you can buy ammo very easely in Switzerland, so it doesnt change a damn thing... Explain that to anti...

    I've heard that your main air national guard squadrons in the area were occupied in an exercise that precise day, and were unable to react as they should have. Is this wrong ?
  7. La Pistoletta

    La Pistoletta Well-Known Member

    Who was this anti who had the authority to do that?
  8. KelVarnson

    KelVarnson Well-Known Member

    I am in no position to answer such a question. However, were such an order given, I would think the duty would fall upon the Air Force or the Navy, depending on who had assets in the area.

    I would find it impossible to believe that there weren't at least a couple of fighters available for such a task. I think it is far more likely that no one had any idea what was about to happen. They may have suspected that these were just more typical hijackings.
  9. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    mainly socialists and lefties.. backed up by the medias who love to spit about guns and gun owners each time that there is a drama about guns and when someone just get crazy..

    They forced our politics by mediatic (and then public) pressure, to take the "emergency ammuntion box" away from the citizen serving the country (this ammo box was sealed (and forbidden to open), and was given to allow each soldier to rejoin his post safely in case of war or draft, fighting his way in, if necessary).


    Now, the same antis, after winning on ammo, are saying that without the ammo, the assault rifle at home is useless, and that it should stay at the arsenal..

    however, this statement is quite uncompatible with our militia organisation and logistic.

    God knows (even if he dosent exist) what's coming next..
  10. Water-Man

    Water-Man Well-Known Member

    There are fools in every country. Some more than others.
  11. rainbowbob

    rainbowbob Well-Known Member

    And if we had known - what do you suppose the reaction would have been to shooting down domestic aircraft full of innocent citizens?

    As for the Swiss. They are to be admired and envied but...

    The real reason they have not been attacked in recent history was pin-pointed in the linked article. They are the bank, and any country attacking them would be burying their own bullion in the process.

    And how many people have they liberated from oppressive dictators in the last 100 years? Then think about what the US has done in that regard, often without thanks and occasionally under condemnation from other countries and their own people.
  12. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Well-Known Member

    Shung, that's tragic.
  13. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    very true.

    you must also admit that, for germany for example, it would have been extremely expensive (in lifes and money) to occupy a country like switzerland where everybody had a military rifle or pistol, and with a landscape very very adapted to guerilla (mountains, forrests, valleys, caves etc etc).

    and dont forget something. For centuries, swiss were excellent mercernaries, and warriors feared by most armies they faced.
  14. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    what exactly ?
  15. JaxNovice

    JaxNovice member

    The article has facts, half truths, opinions, omissions and outright BS.
  16. WinchesterAA

    WinchesterAA Well-Known Member

    If I understood what you said correctly, you live in switzerland, you were given a rifle and ammo as per temporary military duty, then someone spoke up and had your ammo taken away because it is "dangerous?"

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how your post reads.

    Ya'll have a reputation for being very peaceful people, and someone comes in and says that's all wrong? Ya'll are actually dangerous? Tragic.
  17. bobbarker

    bobbarker Well-Known Member

    Response to the Nat. Guard being occupied that day, and unable to shoot down. To my understanding (I wasn't there, but, from what I have read on the matter)They were involved in a Massive training exercise, and did not realize at first that this was an actual threat. They thought it was a part of the exercise. By the time they realized it WAS an actual threat, they didn't have time to bring the planes in and refit refuel with live ATA missles.

    The thing about the Swiss compared to the US however,(Getting back on track to the OP) is that the Swiss do have mandatory service. The US, we are blessed with an all volunteer military. I would hate to see a return to the draft, not because I really care if some kid gets pulled out of college to strap up and go out, but because I don't want anyone there who didn't volunteer to go. When you force someone into service, and put them on the front lines, often times you wind up with people more concerned with their own welfare than the welfare of the guy to the left and right of him. I don't want that guy on my left or right. Biggest thing they pound into your head in boot camp, and throughout your time in the military, is "if you look out for yourself, you will get killed. Watch out for the guy at the left and right, and the guy at the left and right will do the same for you." That way if you get shot, there's two guys that know, and you can get a doc there faster.

    Understand I'm not slamming the Swiss. They have a good system, and it works for them, and I would NOT want to be part of an invading force in Switzerland. I do prefer our system though.
  18. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    you understood it well !!!

    for a few cases of people getting crazy (murders commited with guns) , they considered, all citizen/soldiers unsafe to be given assault rifle AND AMMO.. We still are safe to serve the country over 300 days though..

    Actually it is more a strategy from antis to forbid guns to everyone except LEO and professional military.. and it is part of their whole dishonnest process.

    you are very right here. our militia system works because we are not at any war for a long time.. I am not sure our population would accept our system if dead body would start coming in from foreign theaters.

    this is what I had read as well.
  19. jparham

    jparham Well-Known Member

    This Swiss still are good warriors. They protect the most important religious leader in the world.
  20. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    LoL, true.


    If you want to be a swiss guard you need to have served in the swiss army before. and the selection is hard.

    However, im not sure we should defend everything that the pope says.. ;)

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