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An Idea: One-Way Gun Tracking

Discussion in 'Legal' started by GoodKat, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. GoodKat

    GoodKat Well-Known Member

    I know many of us oppose gun registration because of the possible confiscation angle. At the same time, the ability to track a gun to its owner is very useful for the purposes of criminal investigation.

    In light of this, what do you think of a system where law enforcement can enter a gun's serial number and pull up previous owners, without being able to enter a person's name and pull up what guns they own? Also, any ideas on how to go about creating such a system?
  2. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a system set up for abuse.
  3. Tom488

    Tom488 Well-Known Member

    Well, for one, such a database would only be useful if ALL transfers were recorded - meaning private transfers would be eliminated.

    Secondly, all data would be available - we're just have to "trust" the government to only access it one way, and not the other. How trusting are you of our government these days?

    Third - it will encourage all LEOs, in any encounter with a CCW'er, to demand the gun to "run the numbers" - because now there's finally a "reliable" database that can tell them in an instant whether or not the person is legally in possession. And what happens when that "reliable" database is in error? Look at how reliable the NFRTR is - ATF privately admits it's about 50% out of whack. Publically, of course (or more importantly, during sworn testimony), it's 100% accurate.

    So, for those reasons, among a myriad of others, I'd have to say "pass" to any kind of official registration.
  4. BogBabe

    BogBabe Well-Known Member

    How many reasons would you like as to why this is a terrible idea?
  5. Ed N.

    Ed N. Well-Known Member

    For initial sales from a gunshop, this can already be done, though not with a single database.

    Cops contact the manufacturer with the s/n. Manufacturer tells them which distributor it went through. Distributor tells them which shop got it. Shop searches their 4473 records and tells the cops who bought it.

    If that original purchaser kept records, he can tell them who he sold it to, if he doesn't have it anymore. If he sold it to an FFL, the chain will continue through another 4473 when the FFL sells it.

    I think that's all you can ask of any system, and it doesn't involve the Gov't having a database of guns and owners.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2012
  6. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    Hello, we're from the government, we're here to help!

    Oh sure! Come on in!
  7. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this is impossible not to abuse. For one way searches to work, there still has to be a database somewhere with all the info stored on it. Some piece of data that connects "Serial Number 12345" with "John Public". The data has to be there. And if the data is there, the government will eventually decide to use it. You're proposing a system where someone can enter the serial number, and it brings up the name. But physically, for that to work, that stuff has to be stored on a computer and connected. And if it connected at all, all you have is a promise they will use it a specific way. It all comes down to whether or not you trust governments to do what they tell you they will do.

    I don't.
  8. Colonel

    Colonel Well-Known Member

    Most guns used in crime are stolen or obtained on the black market.

    So tracing a gun through the chain of legal ownership will have no use in solving most gun crimes.
  9. Twiki357

    Twiki357 Well-Known Member

    Personally, I don't want elected criminals to know anything about me that I can prevent them from knowing, and that goes double for the appointed criminals.

    Second, it would take many, many years to even establish a 50% reliable data base. And that data base would only be as accurate as those providing the information and the government grunts who are doing the input and that's assuming that reliable information is even available.

    Third, There is no data base that is secure from those who have authorized access. What to make a guess how long it would take for your life insurance to be converted to high risk premiums or the cancelled car insurance because if you have a gun your must also have road rage? And sooner or later it will end up being cross referenced with your medical/insurance records that obamacare requires to be accessible online... Get a migraine headache prescription and get to meet your friendly ATF agents while they're packing up your guns.
  10. jak67429

    jak67429 Well-Known Member

    This was tried in Canada and they finally after millions in cost overruns found out it did not work.
  11. fxstchewy

    fxstchewy Well-Known Member

    What guns.......
  12. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    I saw a crawl on Fox News that said Germany has a complete data base of all registered guns in the country, who owns them and how many they own.

    It is apparent that the proposed new AWB will emulate that system here at least for the covered rifles/handguns, since they will all be under the NFA and registered and transferred like machineguns. Eventually, of course, there will be killings with bolt action "military style sniper rifles" (remember JFK?), "semi-automatic assault revolving handguns", and "deadly multi-projectile assault weapons" (shotguns).

    Those who think that their hunting rifles or trap guns are safe are living in a fool's paradise.

  13. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    And you have proof to indicate how many crimes have been solved by tracing a gun to the last recorded legal owner of that gun? I'll bet the number is close to ZERO.
  14. cl4de6

    cl4de6 Well-Known Member

    It's one of those things that sounds like a good idea.

    Have you ever gotten a letter about an unpaid parking citation in the mail? Now it wasn't you who parked illegally. Maybe the metermaid wrote out a ticket, but mistype a number on her computer and ABC123 turns into ABC124.

    Can you imagine trying to fight that ticket?

    Now apply that to a gun. Serial SW123456 is found at a crime scene and accidentally becomes SW123457 when it is mistyped in the search database. You were the last owner of SW123457 and that gun of yours is resting quietly in the gun safe when the SWAT team breaks down your door.

    Do you still think it's a good idea?
  15. runes

    runes Active Member

    How many guns are actually left behind at a crime scene?
  16. otasan56

    otasan56 Well-Known Member

    So true. The only time a weapon is recovered is if the killer surrenders or offs himself.
  17. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Or the states, like Massachusetts (I believe) that required the spent shell casing from new handguns be sent in and entered into a ballistics database.... has anyone every heard of one crime that has been solved by that?
  18. rim

    rim Well-Known Member

    No thanks. No lists, no tracking, no confiscation, no infringement.
  19. Mike OTDP

    Mike OTDP Well-Known Member

    Maryland. And the answer is NO. Hell, the State Police would love to get rid of that fired case requirement, but the state legislature won't hear of it.
  20. Deer_Freak

    Deer_Freak Member.

    After the gun is fired enough to be broken in it will have a different ballistic fingerprint anyway. Yet, companies keep on doing it.

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