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And here we go Elephants to be culled in Zimbabwe.

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by H&Hhunter, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    I have been warning of this for some time now and here we go..I would like to hear from some of the anti elephant hunters on this sight and see what your opinon of the current elephant situation is now. Sport hunting and proper mangament could have prevented this.

    By the way the reason that there have been very few elephant sightings in Hwange national park is because the elephants have eaten and destroyed all of the available forage and MOVED ON!!!

    This article is from the Zimbabwe Chronicle, Dec. 28, 2004

    Plans to cull jumbos mulled
    Assistant News Editor
    NATIONAL Parks and Wildlife Management Authority is planning to cull some elephants in an effort to control the ballooning jumbo population, that has also caused serious damage to the biodiversity, driving other smaller animal species to extinction, Chronicle has learnt.
    Parks’ public relations manager Retired Major Edward Mbewe said plans to control the elephant population were underway.
    “We have plans to reduce the elephant population, as a control mechanism in the wake of the large numbers of the animals and the destruction being caused to the environment,†he said.
    The targeted jumbos are in the Parks Estates, communal areas and in Communal Areas Management Programme for Indigenous Resources.
    Retired Major Mbewe could not say how many animals have been targeted.
    “We are working on a programme which will start very soon, then we will be having the numbers and specific areas,†he said.
    Zimbabwe is also heading the Elephant Management Taskforce, which is aimed at coordinating strategies to address elephant problems within the Southern African Development Community (SADC).
    Delegates from countries having problems with elephants at the recent Wildlife Consultative Forum in Sun City in South Africa, said there was need to reduce the jumbo population by 50 percent to prevent further loss to biodiversity in their protected areas.
    Zimbabwe was chosen to spearhead the campaign to manage elephants that involves culling as one of the options.
    Retired Major Mbewe said faced with such a crisis there was need to act by reducing the numbers.
    The elephant population in the country grew from 89 000 in 2001 to about 100 000 this year which is the second highest in the Southern African region after Botswana which has 123 000.
    Other countries are also battling to manage elephant populations. Namibia has 14 000, South Africa 14 000, Tanzania 120 000 and Mozambique 19 000.
    Zambia has 25 000 while Swaziland has less than 30 elephants.
    Apart from posing serious threat to the environment, too many elephants also increase human and wildlife conflicts, as the jumbos would move to areas where there is food and water.
    However plans to reduce the elephant population has been sharply criticised by some animals rights groups in the country.
    The Zimbabwe Conservation Taskforce said it is opposed to the culling as there has been no proper census to determine the number of the elephants in Parks estates.
    “ We are strongly opposed to this in view of the fact that no accurate counting has been done and nobody knows how many elephants we have. There have been very few elephant sightings in Hwange this past year and we sincerely hope enough pressure can be put on National Parks to abandon this idea until such time that a proper count is done,†said the organisation.

  2. sm

    sm member

    Well - my feelings are well known. I have always wanted to go and participate in something like this.

    Habitat can only support so much . There is a natural order to things.

    Sounds as if there is some serious "out of balance" to me.

    Maybe the elephants moved on because of Ultimate Shotgun and buckshot...I bet the "racking sound" scared them away... :D
  3. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

    Ecology is balance - and quite frankly - whatever the ''animal rights'' brigade want to spout - man has a part in it.

    Let's parallel the deer situation ... those who would want to stop ''killing Bambi'' are I fear not cognisant of things ecological - tho they think they are! :rolleyes:

    Jumbo will need culling - for Jumbo's sake - end of story!
  4. 41mag

    41mag Well-Known Member

    I'm not religous by any definition but I'll pray for those that have to do the culling.

    Hunting-sport or meat-is fine.I too would love to get the poop scared out of me in the high grass by an old tusker.

    Culling(to me)is a sad,sad neccesity.

    On the flip side it seems that sub-saharan Africa is imploding from AIDS.Maybe by 2050 or so the animals will take over larger tracts again.
  5. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Well-Known Member

    new year
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2004
  6. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Well-Known Member

    Darwinism at work. Aint' it beautiful? They're killing themselves with aids, intertribal warfare and starvation. And they can't even control the elephant population by themselves; they will have to bring in Great White Hunters from far away lands. Pitiful. Go Jumbo!
  7. one-shot-one

    one-shot-one Well-Known Member

    Not Throwing Gasoline

    I do not nessicarily disagree with anything said so far;
    but is the elephant hunting thread going to get moved to leagle-political?
  8. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Well-Known Member

    Again my appologies for my dis-taste, of scum bag governments, back to hunting, I heard on the elephant internet, they wish to begin "culling" of the clowns Mugabe and his thugs, sounds like a just cause.
  9. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator


    THEY are being forced to control there population by themselves. Great white hunters from afar haven't been allowed to because various animals rights scum bags have put so much pressure on their park departments to disallow hunting.

    Now THEY are going to have to kill off nearly 50,000 elephants in a mass slaughter to keep from losing all of there elephants due to starvation.

    Go jumbo??

    The problem is jumbo has been allowed to go to far.. I hope you and your PETA pals are proud of your fine accopmlishment.

    You really don't understand any of this do you Rilley??

    This is not sport hunting anymore done by "great white hunters from far away" this is now an enternal program done by native killing teams that will go in a slaughter whole family groups at once. At great expense and risk to the local park departments and their teams.

    Arc Lite.

    I believe that everybody here is familiar with Robert Mugabe and his reign of terror. But once again that was not the subject of this thread. If you are going to post on my threads I am going to have to ask you to please try and stick to the subject.

    Musolini was a terrible guy that once ruled in Africa too but that has nothing to do with the biological status of elephants in Southern Africa.

    There is nothing you or I can do about Mugabe or the current sociopolitical staus of Sub -Sharan Africa. There is something we can do about the wildlife staus there. And the first step is to stop the missinformation that is spread from various NGO's and animal rights groups. They are causing the destruction of thousands of elephants which could otherwise be managed in a profitable, sensable way.

    Why is that so hard to understand.


    If they were to start Culling Mugabe and his thugs I'd be in..
  10. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

    Steady guys .... keep it on an even keel! :)
  11. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Well-Known Member

    have a good new year
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2004
  12. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Well-Known Member

    Game, like any natural resource, requires management to insure its continuing benefit to civilizations/societies/people. The problem is not with the African game, but with the lack of management, so in that we are in agreement. There is no reason a continent as rich in natural resources as Africa should be so backward. Yet they are. Has there ever been a great civilization there except for ancient Egypt? (which arguably may well have been Arabic, rather that 'African').

    Your problem should be with the lack of autonomy of the African 'leaders', not with scum PETA lawyers from NYU. Why should an independent continent and its nation states be subject to 'white mans law'? If the African hunters over the years had been true conservationists rather than exploiters maybe the current state of affairs would have been ameliorated.
  13. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator

    Arc Lite,

    Fair enough..

    Did you know Lance Nesbitt? he is a PH and a friend he also fought in the conflict and was I believe a Selous scout.

    On the flip side I have seen the, with my own two eyes the destruction that is being caused by the current elephant population problem in Southern Africa.

    Hunters and other conservationists have been begging, pleading and trying in many ways to be allowed to thin out these particular herds for years. We have been shgut out by animal rights groups, crooked politicians and bleeding heart liberals. Now it's to late. With proper management this would not have had to happen. the bleeding heart bambists of the world are directly responsible for the slaughter that is about to take place.

    By the way they are the same people who put Mugabe in power in the first place. As you well know.
  14. H&Hhunter

    H&Hhunter Moderator


    Yes I agree 100%.

    And all I am preaching is management. And you are also correct that the main problem is African leadership.

    PETA/other animal rights scum bags plying political pressure and funds and the National Geographic preaching anti hunting do not help any either.

    Due to the missinformation that we get bombarded with every day most Americans think that the African elephant is on the verge of extinction. Nothing is further from the truth.
  15. 12-34hom

    12-34hom Well-Known Member

    I find it ironic that the hunted here are more intelligent than the hunters.

  16. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Well-Known Member

    have a good new year
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2004
  17. Itote

    Itote Well-Known Member

    :banghead: What frustrates me so much is that I cant afford to go over and do a little culling myself.I am 32 years old and I cant remember the first time I went hunting,been doin it all my life.I hunt because i enjoy the freedom of being outdoors,and also for the protein :) I also enjoy the excitement of pulling the trigger,and for that I'll make no apologies.The thought of going one on one with something that can sling the fertilizer out of you in two seconds flat appeals to me,strange perhaps,but it does.As for culling being neccessary,I have no doubt that it is and wouldn't have a harsh word for anyone that was envolved.Like I said,If I could afford it I would be on the first flight over tomorrow.Looking down the sights at an elephant must be a truly awesome sight,maybe one day......

    P.S. H&H,thanks for all the wonderful stories you bring back with you from Africa.May there be many more!
  18. c_yeager

    c_yeager Well-Known Member

    Why is it that the Elephant population isnt being naturally kept in check? People only recently started hunting them. What did they do before we got over there Or is it just a matter of shrinking habitat?

    Also, do elephants have any natural predators in Africa?
  19. TK73

    TK73 Well-Known Member

    Dear Mr. Yeager

    In stone ages, elephants and other wild animals virtually had their whole natural living space at their "free" disposal.

    Back then humans were armed with "primitive" weapons like stones, spears, bows et cetera they were mostly prey to most wild animals themselves, I can easily imagine, every attempt to hunt big, dangerous game bordered on committing suicide :eek: . I suspect, thorough planning, sound tactics, superior numbers of "hunters" and maybe fire to scare the big, dangerous animals was necessary to be successful and to reduce the death toll and injuries on the humans involved as much as possible. When humans decided to take on such a dangerous and difficult task, the reasons were meat (food), hide, bones to insure the survival of their tribe. They weighted carefully between the risk of a couple of "hunters" and the survival of a whole tribe. I doubt, hunting by humans during that time ever impacted the whole population of any wild, dangerous game species.

    Times have changed indeed, but I'm sure there are certainly tribes on this planet hunting that way to this day.

    I am convinced, there's no natural predator species in Africa that hasn't the utmost respect for the power and size of a full-grown bull or cow elephant, so as soon as an elephant has grown to a imposing size he hardly has to fear any predator (except human :D )

    Sound game management is absolutely mandatory to insure survival of the animal species on this planet, and if it means trophy hunting or culling or whatever, I have no objections against doing it.

    "Ohne Jaeger kein Wild!"

    I sincerely wish all of you a healthy and most successful new year!!!

    H&H, thanks again for your interesting posts and the information you gave me.

  20. c_yeager

    c_yeager Well-Known Member

    So it's a case of the "carrying capacity" of the region being reduced rather than a reduction of predators. That makes sense, same story for deer around these these parts. Culling is appropriate in this case then.

    What is really sad is that all that ivory is going to end up sitting in a warehouse.

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