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Any runners on the forum? SD tools while running.

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by gossamer, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. heron

    heron Well-Known Member

    Yes to the spray, Gossamer, but you might also consider a very thin, flexible stick, perhaps a willow switch, about three feet long and a couple ounces. Won't break bones -- it might not even break skin -- but it'll sting like furies. Target the attacker's ears with it.
  2. zhyla

    zhyla Well-Known Member

    Wow, a lot of drama for a simple question. I only run a couple miles at a time but I just carry a folder clipped on my pocket. I don't generally view knives as a weapon but it's better than nothing.
  3. Zardaia

    Zardaia Well-Known Member

    I'd love to be able to run with the dog. Last time I went home I took the parent's dog out for a walk. Started a slow jog and I think he about died in 100yards. Spoiled over weight mutt that one is...
  4. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Well-Known Member

    I clip a large Cold Steel Voyager into the waistband of my running shorts when I jog. I don't notice it's there.

    Seems any similarly lightweight knife with a clip, plus the pepper spray you presently carry, would make for a useful combination, and carrying both would still be lighter than a gun.
  5. sidheshooter

    sidheshooter Well-Known Member

    Not much to add that hasn't been said. Spyderco endura in the waistband works for me. It gets sticky, but it's there.
  6. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Well-Known Member

    Emerson La Griffe in a clip sheath. The clip sheath is hard to find (most are custom made, though that's not to hard to do yourself with a metal clip and the factory sheath), and the knife is very difficult to find.

    But it's about three inches long with ridiculous retention in hand, and it probably weighs less than two ounces with the sheath. Turns you into a human velociraptor.

    A collapsible baton is way too heavy, any of the larger wood sticks or canes are too awkward.

    Kimber Pepperblaster is a decent choice, but you get two shots without the chance to readjust your aim like you can with a stream or foam pepper spray. Also a bit heavier, though it comes with a clip that you can tuck into your waistband.

    I always carry a J-frame-sized revolver with my driver's license and carry permit in a small fanny pack. But that's not for everyone, and I have never done a run more than eight miles with it.
  7. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    There are light weight elastic waist gun pouches. Or a clip draw rig on a pistol. A light weight .380 or 9x19 polymer pistol and ammo will come in at a pound.

    I'd say that if you can't carry an extra pound when you run then no offense but that's a problem.

    My biggest fear when running is having a stray dog chase me or attack me. Second biggest fear is either being hit by a car and badly injured/left defenseless, or abducted by people in a van. Or just encountering a desperate violent person. Need a gun for self defense.

    Running 15-20 miles. Yep, that's hard. But I've rucked 12 miles carrying 60 lbs worth of gear, so you won't have my sympathies carrying a pound of gear on a run.
  8. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    Hey, we can compare. I carried a similar ruck...plus a 60mm mortar with M8 baseplate and attached bipod (about 35 more pounds total), plus M9 or M4. I weighed 155 at the time.

    Carrying ANY extra weight made running difficult. And I was the 2nd best runner in the squad (the best was a 128-lb jackrabbit). Your sympathies are obviously unneccessary, pretentious, and boorish.
  9. gossamer

    gossamer Well-Known Member

    Again, I thought this said "non-firearm weapons."

    You are free to run 26 miles or 2 and then comeback and tell me what you should do. But please don't presume to know better than me what's right for me.

    I've done my 20 mile days with a loaded 60lb pack too, Including the AT and RMT. Comparing it to running is apples and oranges. Ones packing and ones running.

    I don't need a gun for sd when i'm running, if you feel you do that's great for you.

    I didn't ask for sympathy. I asked for a "non-firearm weapon"
  10. lobo9er

    lobo9er Well-Known Member

    sorry OP I agree with JShirley. If you want to conceal something wear a T-shirt, and some underwear.
  11. gossamer

    gossamer Well-Known Member

    Jeez. Did you actually read what John wrote? I can't speak for him, but I think he was saying leadcounsel's "sympathies are obviously unneccessary, pretentious, and boorish."

    Let's make this clear:

    (1) If I wanted a recommendation for a gun to carry while running or how best to carry a gun while running, I would have posted this in a forum other than the one entitled: "Non-Firearm Weapons" The fact that I DID ask the question here should be a very clear indicator that I do not want a recommendation on carrying a concealed firearm while running.

    (2) I'm just spitballing here, but I think that of everyone on this forum that I MAYbe the most qualified to know what I can and cannot conceal while I'm running in my area to be in compliance with our law. Neither a t-shirt nor underwear will conceal a gun when I am running.
  12. lobo9er

    lobo9er Well-Known Member

    Sure but you cant even carry your cell phone comfortably, so what self defense Item is going to be smaller, lighter and still be effective? So from what I'm gathering unless you change your attire your not gonna carry much. You don't where a shirt so a neck knife is out. A hard plastic krambit or other impact weapon maybe an option. You are looking for a self defense item am I wrong?
  13. ssmith1187

    ssmith1187 Member

    "I was responding to the idea that long runs are slower than short runs. They simply aren't. Anyone who runs distance with regularity understands that the whole point is not to vary your pace that much."

    Actually you should...but that's a topic for a different thread ;-)

    I saw a reference to it, but didn't see a link provided:


    All the best,
  14. gossamer

    gossamer Well-Known Member

    The Kimberly pepper blaster will fit in the pocket of my running shorts. So it looks like the best option thus far.

    Thanks to all who alerted me to it and other viable options.

    Steve. Thanks for the heads up.
    Yes. Changing pace among runs is one way to train. (Please note I clarified what I meant later, in resp. To John's comment.) It's not the only way to train. Successfully training for and completing multiple marathons has shown me that my method of training works for me at this stage in my development. Right down to my clothing choices. I'm by no means an ultrarunner, so there's a lot more to learn and a lot further to go.

    YMMV ... literally
  15. ssmith1187

    ssmith1187 Member

    The Kimber has a fairly stout belt/pocket clip and I have worn it clipped on the outside of my running shorts and surprisingly it was barely noticeable nor did it bounce too much.

    If you go that route, hopefully it will be successful for you too.

    All the best,
  16. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

    That was my take, too. Then again, I don't tell women what firearm they "should" own/carry for defense, either. :rolleyes: (My SIL really liked the AK she shot last weekend. It'll probably be what she reaches for first in her house. Since it also had the least penetration of the three calibers she shot, AND the most power, AND she always hit the target, it's a fine choice.)

  17. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    I'm not much of a runner any more, and I hated running when I was on active duty. But I do have some thoughts on this.

    I first thought of a small folding knife, like a folding utility razor. Most are pocket clipped, and would have a tendency to slip off the waist band of running shorts. If you could secure it better than just with the clip, it's a wicked deterrant.

    I also thought of a small impact tool, like a kubaton, but against an angry dog, it would be both ineffective and puts your hand and forearm way too close to the mouth of said angry dog. Against humans, it might serve better, but I'd carry a knife over an impact tool if size and weight are critical.

    A willow switch (I think someone else mentioned this early on) is light weight, and stings like crazy. Might be effective against a dog, might be effective against a human.

    The Kimber pepper blaster is light weight and effective against all sorts of critters. I don't know how well they carry, though. But that seems like it may be your best option. A custom Kydex holster with an elastic strap to secure it like a wrist band might be a great way to go.

    I don't know where you reside, so I'm spitballing here on what you can carry openly.
  18. kBob

    kBob Well-Known Member

    The reason I said some dogs are not bothered by pepper spray is my direct personal experience.

    The dog was my own Black Lab.

    It had a digging problem and someone at the vets office thought using peper spray on the area he dug would discourage him. He came up while I was spraying the area while I was wearing an m-17A1 mask. He sniffed and licked at my hand with the pepper sray in it.

    I then sprayed the air between us and he began to show play signs and snap at the cloud like snapping at a fly.

    Concerned that the spray I had bought for my wife was not effective (where she works no guns and no BHKs and she had recieved direct threats) I sprayed the dog directly. This lead to more play behavior.

    Now keep in mind I had several sprays at the dirt actually two in the air between me and the dog and one directly in the dogs face and the dog was n play mode.

    Believing the spray to be completely defective I removed my mask.

    The spray was far more effective than any CS, CN, or DM I have been exposed to in the open, in chambers or even CS crystals on the face. On me. The dog, unaffected, was now sure we were playing at the dog/ boy wrestling game as I was on all fours attempting to reach the back door and hose without falling or running into something. Eric rolled and gummed me repeatedly, tail wagging the whole time until my wife noticed the strangled screaming and called the dog away.

    Had the dog been not in a playful mood he could have eaten me.

    This is why I do not trust OC for dog control. People yes. Dogs no.

    There, you have now read of someones direct personal experience of OC dog failure.

    Ended up having to pave the area with hardware cloth to stop the digging as he was after my well pump and in danger of digging up under ground power lines. Eric was a good friend for many years and passed peacefully in his sleep a few years after he pepper sprayed me.

  19. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

    Only a knife - eh, not so much.

    If you INSIST on just carrying a knife, and only wear shoes, shorts, and socks, then you'll need some sort of clipdraw for your waistband. Can't believe that you couldn't figure that out on your own. If you're willing to add a tshirt to the mix, then you can carry a neckdraw like the Becker Necker knife.

    Most people would agree that any 3" blade, while better than nothing, is not a very serious or effective SD weapon.

    On a run, the threats you'd likely encounter are 1) vicious dog, or 2) violent people (not the type wanting to just rob you, because well clearly you don't have anything worth just taking), or 3) being disabled and left for dead (such as being hit by a car, or another injury - in which case you'd be in too poor of condition to put up a fight).

    A small knife is just inadequate for the likely threats you'd encounter. A vicious dog or violent armed person will not effectively be stopped by a 3" blade.

    I carry a small belly pouch, with a color copy of my DL and CPL and a G27 with hollowpoints. Don't even notice the extra 1lb of weight. Your body will quickly adjust to the weight.

    If it happens to make your run harder slightly, then look it as great training. When you run a race for real, you'll feel that much lighter because you can leave it in the car.

    If you're too obsessed with your training run time to care that carrying a gun may add a few seconds of time per mile, then I'd suggest re-prioritizing your life. What's more important? Self defense and a 6 minute mile, or disarmed and a 5:50 mile?

    I'm not trying to offend, just offer my insight.

    I use this and it works well. Conceals well too.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  20. Kayaker 1960

    Kayaker 1960 Well-Known Member


    At close distance a knife,properly used can be every bit as effective as a gun. A SHARP 3" blade slashed across the wrist will cut tendons, making the arm worthless and leading to quick bleed out if not cared for promply. A slash across the throat, well, no need to discuss further. In general slashing cuts are more effective than stabs. In protecting you furry friend from a large/agressive dog you can easily sever the tendon on a dogs back leg, making the leg useless, of course slashing a dogs throat or a direct stab into the heart works too.
    The knife must be kept very sharp and you need handle it enough to open it without fumbling with it.

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