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Anyone still using .45 GAP?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Yo Mama, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    I think the P-227 has optional mags that will hold 13-14 rounds, and that's pretty impressive. especially for those of us who like the P-220, but hate the 7-8 round mags.

    While you clearly can't fathom why anyone would ask, your INABILITY isn't shared by others. A number of folks here HAVE asked, and like the answer.

    A lot of this is like the debates you see when talking about Fords and Chevys...
  2. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Well-Known Member

    Inability? To do what? See that Glock, IIRC, is now the only one carrying gun for it?
  3. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    Had you QUOTED the pertinent part of my response (Post #21), IN CONTEXT, it might have made more sense to you. You didn't show that part.

    That was quoted directly from your post (#9).
    I was referring to YOUR inability to understand why anyone would want a .45 GAP Those were YOUR words, not mine. I appreciate that you don't want a .45 GAP weapon. I understand. I can fathom that. But you're not me.

    There are guns I don't want, myself: I don't want a .357 SIG weapon, or a 10mm handgun, or a .44 magnum or S&W 500 Magnum revolvers, either -- but I CAN fathom why a few folks might want one or more of those guns.

    To each his own.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  4. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Well-Known Member

    Ok, I was genuinely confused.

    I guess I come off as abrasive. It's not that the round isn't good, I've just no need to add it. For me its harder to find than .357 sig, which I enjoy for longer range shooting and being a barrel swap away from .40 S&W.

    I don't do .44 mags either. I'm always on the lookout for a Model 22 Smith.
  5. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    I see we aren't that far apart. Let us go in peace. <Grin>

    I might be convinced to try .357 SIG again (I have a Glock 23 with a .357 conversion barrel), but I find the ammo price off-putting -- especially , when I can use a 9mm conversion barrel for punching paper (which is about all I'll use that gun for.)

    My son, a NC State Trooper, feels differently about .357 SIG. He has a S&W M&P issued in that caliber -- and he can get ammo a lot easier than I can. (He's thinking about getting a 23 in the future, and when he does, I'll probably give him my .357 SIG barrel.)

    IF you can find me a .45 with the same size grip and capacity as a .45 GAP gun, I'll probably give up my Glock 38, or hope they make a conversion barrel for it. (Nothing along that line out there that I can see...) Recently, .45 GAP has been the ONLY ammo I can find, and earlier, when I was buying it from Georgia Arms (when they had ammo in stock), it was the same price as .45 ACP -- which isn't bad.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  6. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Well-Known Member

    Hence why GAP is popular with LE too. They can acquire it faster and cheaper. It's actually not that bad, but as available as Quadricorn milk round these parts.
  7. rtz

    rtz Well-Known Member

    The strange thing about the Glock 21: Wrap your hand around the magazine. Not bad. Look at the back of the grip and all that hollow space and how it bulges out like that. No need or reason. I have big hands and that grip is huge!
  8. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

    Walt, there have been 14 round mags available for the S&W M&P 45 for several years. The SA XD 45 4 inch has 13 round flush fit mags, and is the same size ( if not slightly smaller in the grip ) as a Glock 38. The SA XD series is proof that the answer is grip and magazine engineering, not a new cartridge.
  9. CLP

    CLP Well-Known Member

    I bought a Glock 37 because it was being sold for 375 NIB and the 45 GAP has comparable ballistics to the 45 ACP. I also have a 1911 in 45 ACP, so I guess some part of the reason I bought it was that it was something new and different. I bought a couple thousand Starline brass and load them with the same Nosler 185gr JHP's that I use in my 1911. Have put about 500 rounds through it, about 15 of them were factory rounds, the rest being handloads. It's a fine round, but I'll agree that its arrival was sort of a solution to a problem that didn't exist. My biggest complaint about the G37 is that they only come with 10rd mags.
  10. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Well-Known Member

    Good points, and valid. But that wasn't the case when the .45 GAP was first introduced.

    If you're saying Glock should have worked on grip size rather than Cartridge, I'll agree -- but I don't see the .45 GAP as a bigger abomination than a number of other cartridges, and my Glock 38, remains one of the easiest shooting .45s I've ever fired. I've had a number of 1911s, SIG 220s, Witness .45s, and a CZ-97. I like how the 38 shoots better than any of them. but I'll admit that I'm a bit more accurate with my SIG P-220 Super Match. In terms of price/performance, however, I paid 3 times more for the used Super Match than the used 38, and to my way of thinking, there's not THAT much difference in their relative performance.

    As noted above, the Glock 21's grip could have been made smaller -- and had they done so, I might have had one and never bought a 38. The 21s I shot felt like 2"x4"s in my hand -- downright offputting. I'll probably try a 227, one of these days. (I have a "SpeedSpecialities"-tuned M&P Pro in 9mm and it's a fine gun, so an M&P 45 isn't out of the question, either.)
  11. Fiv3r

    Fiv3r Well-Known Member

    My buddy on the Sheriff's Department told me that they were issued GAP Glocks. That kind of surprised me as I think the City cops carry a .40.

    I would give the GAP a chance if I stumbled onto one at a good price. I can't shoot ACP right now as I can't find it anywhere. No big deal. I'm having fun making smoke with my Black Powder guns while I wait for the silliness to die down.

    That said, having a smaller framed .45 Glock in my stable wouldn't be a bad thing. Plus, the highly irrational side of me reminds my reptilian brain that I live out in the country surrounded by many Deputy neighbors with duty weapons and personal weapons in their issued caliber. In a case where things went south, some of the first people I would try to formulate a plan with these fine folks. It might be nice to have a gun that eats what theirs do:eek:
  12. MaterDei

    MaterDei Well-Known Member

    I thought the 45GAP was an April fool's joke. Do you mean to say that it wasn't?
  13. Blueduck

    Blueduck Well-Known Member

    I'm guessing since 10% of State Police Agencies in the Nation issue it, I'm guessing not :confused:
  14. OK, so some of you don't like it.....and probably can't even articulate why. The cartridge is more compact and EFFICIENT by size than the .45ACP, but the sheer abundance of brass, ammo, and guns for ACP is going to stymie any effort by the GAP to replace it. I get that. But, if a person likes the size of 9mm pistols, or compact guns, or has smaller hands, and STILL likes big bores, the little GAP guns give them more options. Get over it. It the GAP isn't for YOU, then can we let other people choose for their OWN reasons? I don't own one, but I think they are WORTHY of consideration for many reasons.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  15. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Well-Known Member

    Ah, and so does the Old Fuff. By shortening the case length you can fit a .45 cartridge into a 9mm/.40 frame rather then a larger one needed for the .45 ACP and give up nothing of consequence. It is not intended to be a rival to the longer round, but rather an additional option. If a compact .45 is what is desired, it can “out-compact” any regular .45 ACP. When double-column magazines are the order of the day most folks find the .9mm/.40 size handle to be easier to hold on to.

    For a manufacturer they’re meaningful savings when you can use one lower (frame assembly) to make more guns. More limited production on a larger one translates in to higher costs.

    Were someone to chamber a pocket-sized revolver to use the Glock cartridge the cylinder could be shortened, bulk and weight would be reduced, and extraction & ejection would be more positive.

    What’s not to like? ;)
  16. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

    Several of you keep insisting on this, but it simply isn't true. There are only three pistols, all Glocks, still offered in .45 GAP

    Once again, the SA XD 45 Service / 4 Inch is the same size as a Glock 38, and smaller than the G37. Said XD holds 13 rounds of 45 ACP, which is five more rounds than the G38 holds of .45 GAP, and still three more rounds than the even larger G37 holds .45 GAP. The S&W M&P 45 is comparable in size to the G37, and holds the same number of rounds, but the Smith holds the bigger rounds.

    1911 Commanders and clones in .45 ACP are thinner than all double stack Glocks (even more so with slim grips), fall in between the G38 and G37 in size, and equal the G38's capacity.

    The S&W M&P 45c with its 8 round mags holds as much .45 ACP as the G38 holds .45 GAP, and does so in a comparably sized package. The Kahr TP45 in 45 ACP gives up only one round of capacity to the G38. The TP45 is slightly taller, but is also slightly shorter, and significantly thinner, than the G38.

    The G39 holds six rounds of 45 GAP in its subcompact frame, yet the Kahr PM45 holds 5 rounds of 45 ACP in an even smaller and slimmer package.

    If someone other than Glock would offer a pistol in .45 GAP then smaller sizes with equivalent capacities would be a reality. Right now the smaller size of .45 GAP pistols is unexploited potential.

    FIVETWOSEVEN Well-Known Member

    I think that .45 GAP would be nice to have in a XDs sized gun. Can you make GAP brass from ACP?
  18. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

    No, because the gap has a thicker case web, and uses a small pistol primer vs. the ACP's large primer. Starline has new brass in stock, but they're not even taking back orders on .45 ACP brass.
  19. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    Five state law enforcement agencies still use Glocks in .45GAP.
  20. Hard_Cast

    Hard_Cast Member

    Regardless of who is using it currently, no major federal agency has picked it up that I have seen. With only a handful of state police using the cartridge, I really think that the GAP will fall from favor within 5 more years. As others have noted, Glock is the only mfg. that still produces this chambering, and the general public will not continue demand for such a cartridge for much longer. I wouldn't buy one currently, especially if you can't cut down ACP brass to form GAP. Starline is pretty good about keeping odd or hard-to-get calibers in production, though, so reloaders may have no worries, at least for some time.

    The GAP seemed a little odd to me from the get-go. But then again, the .40 Short and Weak has hung on. I think its continued use by Fed, State, and Local Agencies has cemented its place in the world, as well as consumer appeal. The GAP doesn't have such a following... and I see it as only a matter of time.

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