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Article: Father Kills Toddler with ND

Discussion in 'Legal' started by nwilliams, May 3, 2008.

  1. nwilliams

    nwilliams Well-Known Member

    Sad just plain sad:(:fire::banghead::cuss::mad:


  2. jlbraun

    jlbraun Well-Known Member

    I'm sure the dad feels horrible, but if it were the above case we wouldn't use it as a justification to ban cars.

    The instance of kids dying in gun accidents is so vanishingly rare that every time it happens it makes the news.

    And *** is up with this:

  3. cracked butt

    cracked butt Well-Known Member


    If you are going to be incredibly stupid, point the gun at a concrete wall, a cast iron bathtub, or a stuffed animal, not at a toddler!
  4. lacoochee

    lacoochee Well-Known Member

    I just don't see how this can happen by accident. The entire process doesn't make any sense nor does the story. He knew he had loaded the weapon, he possibly pulled the trigger once inside to make it fire? when it didn't fire, he recharged the firing mechanism and pulled the trigger again? all while aimed at his child, inside his home, ***? The whole story doesn't make sense at all.

    Maybe he was just mad at the kid? Was it really his son or maybe a step-child?
    Before anyone says that no one would do such a thing, think again, my brother (EMS) spent 20 minutes trying to revive a 6 year boy, unsuccessfully at a gas station in Ocala whose father/step-father had punched him as hard he could in the gut in a fit of rage.

    I just don't see how this could have been an ND.
  5. lvcat2004

    lvcat2004 Well-Known Member

    We obvioulsy don't have the WHOLE story, but this sounds a bit strange....like shady strange....

    Handling a LONG gun, loaded, pointed toward a toddler, and then PULLING the trigger??

    He ACCIDENTALLY did all those things??
  6. bumm

    bumm Well-Known Member

    If this was an accident, the father is so stupid that he's a danger to himself and everyone around him handling guns, driving, handling power tools, or anything else. This sounds more like uncontrolled rage followed by a lame excuse.
  7. Winter Borne

    Winter Borne Well-Known Member

    I am not defending this at all, but a possible explanation is this:

    He chamberd a round from a magazine and pulled the trigger pointing at a wall. Sheetrock is no match for a military cartridge and his son is struck. The primer was idented on the next round durring semi-autu chambering. He clears the weapon leaving a dimpled round on the floor which the responding officers identify as a miss fire or dudd. If the guy is tis stupid, he might not keep the gun clean which could foul the fireing pin enough to indent the primer.

    All of these are incredable stupid, but plausable.

    Just food for thought. Prayers for the family and the poor boy.

  8. Blue Line

    Blue Line Well-Known Member

    What were those safety rules? Something about pointing, hmmmm.
    When you load a round in the chamber and pull the trigger what happens? I forget?:barf:
  9. Wayne G.

    Wayne G. Well-Known Member

    [ANTI-2A]See? See?!!! Those "assault rifles" DO kill people! It wasn't the father's fault! That "military-style assault rifle" was so evil, it made him accidentally pull the trigger TWICE!!!:eek:
    These evil military-style assault rifles must be banned!!![/ANTI-2A]

  10. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Well-Known Member

    I'd like to be on that jury. :cuss:
  11. lacoochee

    lacoochee Well-Known Member

    I think he also violated the 5 "secret" rule of handling firearms, don't shoot them in your own home on a whim.

    Anybody who believes this guys bull&^%^& story raise your hand.

    I can hardly believe that he was allowed out on bail for $20,000.
  12. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    Can't say much here. I think Winter Borne is close to the truth. It could also be he didn't see the toddler move in front of the muzzle. I know if my Dad has his guns out, we would have been nearby watching. Why he was loading the chamber in the house, I don't know. I have done that before, but I have since learned better.

    A barrel of sand would be better for a discharge point, but even that is a poor substitute to a range or safe location.
  13. jenrob

    jenrob Well-Known Member

    To pull the trigger on a loaded firearm in my home. I don't think so.

    I have seen a lot of dimpled primers on AR style sporting rifles so that is a possibility but still unexcussible.

    Why would you be pulling the trigger on a loaded firearm of any type in your home?

    I have done this laying on my kitchen floor in the winter shooting out the back door at coyotes with a set of electonic muffs on so I can hear if somebody pulls in the drive like the wife.

    But I always know what my back stop is and where I am pointing a loaded firearm.

    I had one ND/AD in the has shoot a hole through the house into the ground pointed at nothing. Had been pointing at cows but never pulled the trigger cause it wasn't something I wanted to kill (course the wall wasn't either but I pulled the trigger when the firearm was pointed in a safe direction.

    prayers go out to the family

    If this was an accident he has and will forever pay for it no need to prosicute him. If not then being this is THR I can't say what should be done.

    I do know that if anything happened to my daughter like this and I got out on bail they wouldn't have a chance to prosicute me I would not be able to live after such horror
  14. outerlimit

    outerlimit Well-Known Member

    Another idiot with a national security clearance?

  15. allenajarr

    allenajarr New Member

    Don't be so quick to judge

    First of all - the father is NOT an idiot - he is not a child abuser and absolutely under no circumstances would he intentionally put his child at risk. He DID NOT point the gun at the child - if you are at all familiar with that type of gun you know that after you clean it you need to put a cartridge in to make sure that you have put it together corectly - and target rounds are the same color as the pin that pushes up the next round into the chamber - not copper like a normal round - This father is a loving caring person - All of you yahoos need to take a step back and realize not all you hear in the news is correct - the baby's age is wrong in half of the reports as is the mothers whereabouts. Don't be so quick to judge - God will judge - the family is going through enough pain and devastation - half ass opinions from people who have less than half the facts is definitely not needed. Now is the time to be supportive and pray for healing for the family and this father - not critical and judgemental.:cuss:
  16. Mr_Rogers

    Mr_Rogers Well-Known Member

    Our prayers should be with the family.

    Having said that, I must point out, as gently as I can, that unless the round fired was a ricochet, the father did, in fact, point the rifle at the child. Bullets do not travel in significant curves. The rest of the facts you point out, although perhaps contributing factors in this sad case, can never remove the fact that a firearm, with a live round in the chamber, was pointed in the wrong direction and the trigger was pulled.

    Most sad, and a wake up call to the rest of us in case we tend to get overly casual with our firearms.

    Thank you for giving us more insight into this event.
  17. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    The primary facts remain, he put a live round in a gun and pulled the trigger. What else the media might report doesn't really matter.

    It is certainly tragic and prayers go out for the mother and the child but if the child was hit in the chest I think it's reasonable to assume that the muzzle was pointed in that direction yes? Even if a ricochet the trigger was still pulled. Tragic ending.

    I get the feeling from your emotional post, and since you apparantly registered here just to post it, that you probably know the people involved.

    If so I'm sorry for your loss but sometimes the view from inside a situation can very much distort what you see. Most often you see what you want to see not necessarily what is reality.
  18. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Well-Known Member

    oh God, stories like this make me physically sick.

    I pray for the youngster.

    If I were the father I would have scrounged up another round for myself. I wouldn't be able to live through something like that. Not at all.
  19. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    The man's been charged. Until he's tried there's not much more to say from a legal standpoint.

    Let's keep focused on the legal issues here.
  20. Those evil assault rifles also take over the brains of their wielder, and make them instantly stupid (or so the antis will now imply). Very sad. The charge is a little overblown, too. Involuntary manslaughter as a result of gross negligence, yes.... Child abuse? No, where's the abuse? Abuse implies intent to make physical contact. He likely had no intent to harm whatsoever -if he did, it would be murder, not child abuse. Either way, wrong charge. The wrong charge will result in an acquittal, which is not what you want when there IS an appropriate charge. Plus he (the dad) likely has suffered plenty enough without an overblown charge being leveled at him. Stupid DAs.

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