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Article: Have a kid, lose your guns?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Zedicus, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Zedicus

    Zedicus Participating Member

    Jun 30, 2003
    A Sad but Sobering Article


  2. LAK

    LAK Senior Member

    Jul 28, 2004
    All this media attention is directed at one thing; get the masses hollering for mandatory, specifed forms of, firearm home security. And required, regular, "inspections".

    It's called building emotional consensus. Continually pushing the right buttons - and waiting for a few timely events of horror to occur so they can start banging their fists on the legislative benches ;)

  3. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey Participating Member

    Apr 18, 2003
    Happy Valley, Oregon
    I call BS.
  4. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

    Dec 30, 2002
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    The "timely events of horror" almost always support our position in a more intellectually honest way. It is our job to to push the other buttons in advance in an attempt to "build emotional consensus" to the right end.

    Unfortunately, the mainstream (for now) media is set squarly against us institutionally and works for free for the blissninny party.

    Press on. Stay the course. Use the newest technological tools to our advantage.
  5. Telperion

    Telperion Participating Member

    Mar 23, 2003
    The Carpenter family story is tragic, but it does raise a question for me: how many THR members would feel comfortable, law or no, with giving children of the ages described, unsupervised access to the gun safe? How have you discussed it with them?
  6. Herself

    Herself member

    May 14, 2004
    Depends on the children, Telperion. My sister's kids, at that age? All but the youngest, who was a bit troubled. My brother's? Nope.

    In large part, because my sister's offspring had been around guns and their dad had given them some instruction. They've seen critters and reactive targets shot, had a chance to internalize what guns will and won't do. But my brother's not a shooter; his children don't have that information and experience.

    That's why the decision is better left to parents rather than lawmakers: parents are in the best position to know what their kid can be trusted with. You worry their judgement might be bad? Parents can already be held liable for the actions of their minor children, which is as much law as needs to be applied to the situation.

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2006
  7. dpesec

    dpesec Active Member

    Mar 17, 2005
    Well, I don't have human children. But I think I'd say when they were small, no. However, they would never be left alone, somebody would be there who could use the firearm.
    Older, yes. But I'd keep ammo and pistol seperate. Perhaps a leave a long gun out.
    If you raise children to understand that weapons aren't to be played with there's not a problem. Don't point toy guns at people, never pick up a gun without gettting an adult to say it's ok.
    Common sense.
  8. Thain

    Thain Active Member

    Jan 9, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    There were five children in the house (14, 13, 11, 9 and 7) and we know that the 14 year old, at least, had been taught to shoot and how to handle a firearm.

    If these were my children, and they were responsible and respectful towards firearms, then the teenagers would know the combination to the safe.

    Michigan has a law agianst minors having unsupervised access, and its a law I'm not wholly agianst. I would be perfectly willing to be charged for the "crime" of giving my teenagers access, if it meant that they were able to save lives.

    An accessible .45 cal autoloader, a deer rifle, or a 12-guage with ammo and a full capacity magazine would have saved lives in this situation. I would give my teenagers access to them... Just because the law is on the books, doesn't mean you need to follow it. ;)
  9. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Participating Member

    Dec 12, 2005
    Spokane, WA
    I do agree with your post, but I would like to point out to the other members of this board that if you choose not to follow a law then you also choose to accept the consequences.
    Even if a law is illegal/unconstitutional, if you break it know full well that you will face the punishment until the law can be overturned.

    I just want everyones eyes open,

  10. Thain

    Thain Active Member

    Jan 9, 2006
    Lansing, Michigan
    I fully realize that be breaking the law, I could be subject to prosecution. But, first the violation of the law needs to be offically reported. Then it needs to be prosecuted. Then I need to be convicted.

    In the above case of the home invasion, I highly doubt the DA is going to file. If they did, I could probably plea out to a misdemeanor... the naked guy with a pitchfork would be dead, my children would be alive, and that's that.

    In the case of the suicidal teen... Well, if I didn't notice the warning signs in advance, it's my fault. (There is a long history of mental illness in my family, including suicide and self-injury. We are very, very in touch with our mental health. Much like a family of diabetics monitor their blood sugar.)
  11. allmons

    allmons New Member

    Jul 12, 2005
    East Tennessee
    What nonsense!

    What next - hold parents accountable for genetic birth defects? It is time, ladies and gentlemen to begin removing these weasels from office when they start this kind of nonsense.

    This man should NOT be in charge of any type of prosecution anywhere.

    The revolution must be NOW at the ballot box or we will be fighting in the streets!

    I don't even want to contemplate the ramifications if this kind of attack on citizens' rights doesn't stop!

    Screw Democrat or Republican arguments - vote for your guns and for a return to common sense. And I see neither in ANY of the major parties.

  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    Who's "we," anyway?
  13. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Senior Member

    Apr 17, 2005
    Hell, my Dad never had a safe. From my earliest childhood, I knew where at least one loaded gun was in my Dad's bedroom. However, my Dad believed in reasonable discipline and I wasn't going to mess with them and he knew it. He also taught my brother and I how to shoot at a young age. I remember shooting metal targets, 2X4's and squirrels. I knew what happened when the trigger was pulled and not to mess with the guns. Of course, my Dad also insisted we treat toy guns as if they were real and not point them at people. You don't see many people do that now days. Also, I remember my Dad helping me hold a .357 mag revolver to fire it. For a kid 5 years old or so, that is a BIG gun. I don't have kids myself yet. I know my brother has not taught his kids how to shoot. I don't think he believes they are responsible enough yet.

    My Dad has a keyed deadbolt on his closet now. If this guy had that, he might have been able to give the girl a key to get to at least one or two guns.

    I would agree that making sure my kids can protect themselves would be more important than following that law. It would then be my responsibility to make sure my kids knew how to use the guns responsibly.
  14. ExtremeDooty

    ExtremeDooty Member

    May 18, 2004
    Rifle, CO.
    How times have changed. It was the same for me, except that I didn't know if any of his guns were loaded, because we (me and my siblings) never messed with them. We could only touch them when he took us shooting. There were consequences for our actions and we learned that early.
  15. Strings

    Strings Senior Member

    Dec 25, 2002
    30 miles from Everywhere, right in the middle of N
    I touched a gun unsupervised exactly once growing up. Dad only had a bolt .22 in his closet. one night, he and mom left me alone for a few hours. I noticed a cigarette cherry glowing and dimming in our front yard... INSIDE the cyclone fence. So I picked the lock into the 'rent's room, loaded the .22, put the safety on, and sat in the living room watching TV while I waited for mom & dad to come home. When they pulled in, I unloaded and replaced the gun (and relocked the door)...

    When dad found out about it (MANY years later), he was fairly supprised...
  16. progunner1957

    progunner1957 member

    Nov 14, 2004
    A wolf living in Sheeple land
    You all better listen to Allmoms

    It's about control. Control by bureaucrats of how We The People live.

    Those who demand all guns be locked up in a house with children present are willing to accept a few dead children to achieve their goal - control. The tragedy of the Carpenters undeniably illustrates this as fact.

    In "The Old Days," kids had guns when they were 12. They were in charge of the safety of themselves and their younger siblings when Mom and Dad were not at home. Why can't we do that today?? Were the 12 year olds of 50 years ago so much more wise than the 12 year olds of today? This practice could still go on - with the proper training.

    Amen, Allmoms! Preach it, sista!!:D :D
  17. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    Telperion, "gun-proofing" a kid is easy. Take the mystique out of it. Remove the thrill of the illicit.

    You let a kid feel and fondle a gun. You point out the dangers of rust from damp little hands. You let the kid know that when he's big enough to shoot a gun, all he has to do is ask. Etc., etc. It doesn't take much for him to then lose interest in guns as El Neato toys.

    I was in the pastures and woods with my grandfather's .22 rifle when I was seven years old, the same year I got my first Daisy Red Ryder. Nothing bad ever happened. My grandfather told me not to shoot a cow--so I didn't.

    It worked for my kid, as well as for me.

  18. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    Nov 13, 2005
    Palm Beach County
    I don't have kids so my 1911 stays locked and cocked on the nightstand. When I was a kid my dad didn't have a safe i grew up hunting and I never messed with my dads guns. I've shown my cousins my guns and I've shown them how to make them safem, how to know if it's loaded so they know what to do if they ever wind up around a gun that isn't mine. If you want to taech your kids gunsafety there are plenty of photos of really bad negligent discharges floating around online that really show you what an ND is.
  19. TC-TX

    TC-TX Member

    Sep 26, 2005
    Amen! Amen! Amen!

    Nice job Art - well said!
  20. drclark

    drclark New Member

    May 28, 2004
    Leaving children alone??

    If a child is not of age/maturity level to be given unsupervised access to the gunsafe, should they be left home alone unsupervised to begin with? There are plenty of things in the home that could be danger to the children or others if accessed/used by someone of questionable judgement.


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